Let's talk about separate bathrooms

[cow451]

Who gets to sit on the "you look like a male" committee?

Not me. No way. Not interested in the slightest..,

 

[TLK Valentine]

Who gets to sit on the "you look like a male" committee?

I nominate the Wayans Brothers -- in character, of course...

 

[ThatRobGuy]

If a biological female takes enough steroids and gets enough surgery to look like a male, nobody is gonna say anything if she goes into the men's restroom. However if she goes into a locker room shower situation and did not have genitalia reassignment surgery, then there will be a problem. The best thing to do would probably go to the locker room where they have the same sex organs as you have

...eh, I feel like the same people who are complaining now, would be complaining about that as well.

Look as Miss Nevada, curves, breasts, the whole nine yards...you mean to tell me that the staunchly conservative voices condemning them from using the women's facilities would be any more accepting of them in the shower room at the rec center with their son just because they both have penises?

I think that's a bit of a long shot.

When you get to the core of it...the staunchly puritanical types don't want females to see penises, and don't want males to see breasts. So they're going to be mad no matter which shower room a trans person uses.

It seems to me that it would be a much more pragmatic approach for people to get rid of the puritanical hang ups over nudity and various body parts.

If we lived in a culture where facilities were gender-neutral and nudity and various body parts weren't "taboo", this would be a non-issue IMO. (like it is for every other mammal on the planet)

 

[Ken-1122]

Who gets to sit on the "you look like a male" committee?

The person deciding which restroom to go to.

 

[Tanj]

The person deciding which restroom to go to.

So basically each transgender person gets to decide their bathroom. Nice. Doesn't quite gel with your previous comments, so looks like you changed your mind.

 

[Ken-1122]

...eh, I feel like the same people who are complaining now, would be complaining about that as well.

Look as Miss Nevada, curves, breasts, the whole nine yards...you mean to tell me that the staunchly conservative voices condemning them from using the women's facilities would be any more accepting of them in the shower room at the rec center with their son just because they both have penises?

If everybody has the same sex organs, what’s there to complain about?

When you get to the core of it...the staunchly puritanical types don't want females to see penises, and don't want males to see breasts. So they're going to be mad no matter which shower room a trans person uses.

If a biological man chooses to have breast implants to go along with is penis, that is his choice.

It seems to me that it would be a much more pragmatic approach for people to get rid of the puritanical hang ups over nudity and various body parts.

You can’t control other people’s behavior; just your own.

If we lived in a culture where facilities were gender-neutral and nudity and various body parts weren't "taboo", this would be a non-issue IMO. (like it is for every other mammal on the planet)

But we don’t live in such a culture, and we are not like every other mammal on the planet.

 

[Ken-1122]

So basically each transgender person gets to decide their bathroom.

That is not the question you asked. You asked " who gets to sit on the you look like a male committee".

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Can someone give us all of your reasons why we can't have men's rooms and ladies' rooms the way we've always had them.

I'm asking this here because another thread was about to get hijacked over it. Not intentionally, but hijacked nonetheless.

In CA , They have women and men's bathrooms. Some places have women , men and family bathrooms, that lock. Some places have women and men's bathrooms that lock. Some doctor offices have all the above or just bathrooms for both that lock, That have one toilets. Transgender women use the women's bathroom and transgender men use the male bathroom.

 

[Tanj]

That is not the question you asked. You asked " who gets to sit on the you look like a male committee".

Right... you said this:

If a biological female takes enough steroids and gets enough surgery to look like a male, nobody is gonna say anything if she goes into the men's restroom.

The obvious question, which I asked, is who decides if she looks like a male.

Your response was

The person deciding which restroom to go to.

Given that in 99% of cases, the person deciding which restroom to go to is the person going to the restroom, that means it's up to the transgender person to decide if they look enough like their gender orientation to use the related restroom.

 

[cow451]

The person deciding which restroom to go to.

nm

 

[TLK Valentine]

The person deciding which restroom to go to.

Great. Everyone goes to whichever restroom they feel more comfortable going to. Problem solved.

 

[Ken-1122]

Right... you said this:


The obvious question, which I asked, is who decides if she looks like a male.

Your response was



Given that in 99% of cases, the person deciding which restroom to go to is the person going to the restroom, that means it's up to the transgender person to decide if they look enough like their gender orientation to use the related restroom.

Which is how it has always been

 

[RDKirk]

I think the problem is we can't figure out who is a man and who is a women.

Rather, there is a very, very small percentage of people who don't agree that it's man or woman. Notice that this very small percentage doesn't include homosexuals and doesn't even include many transsexuals. Most transsexuals declare that gender is a real thing, and commit to one or the other.

 

[RDKirk]

Gendered bathrooms are only 100 (or so) years old.

Ancient Romans had them. So did ancient Hebrews.

I suspect that whenever cultures have had public cleansing facilities more elegant than outhouses, they separated them by gender.

 

[RDKirk]

As long as the stalls have walls I don’t care who’s doing what in the one next to me. If I’m minding my own business how would I ever know what gender they’re supposed to be?

The situation gets hairier (so to speak) in spas and locker rooms.

 

[RDKirk]

I wish I could say the same. In the men's bathroom, it's accepted practice.

You weren't supposed to be looking. At least in the US, we're taught as little boys not to be looking.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

If everybody has the same sex organs, what’s there to complain about?

So you honestly think that if Miss Nevada was in the shower room with one of their sons at the rec center (breasts and all), they wouldn't be complaining?

Or if Shawn Stinson (the pic I posted before) went into the locker room with one of their daughters or wives, they wouldn't be outraged?

There would most certainly be some complaints.


I personally wouldn't care who comes into the shower room, but then again, I'm not a person who's trying to keep anyone out.

 

[Ken-1122]

So you honestly think that if Miss Nevada was in the shower room with one of their sons at the rec center (breasts and all), they wouldn't be complaining?

Or if Shawn Stinson (the pic I posted before) went into the locker room with one of their daughters or wives, they wouldn't be outraged?

There would most certainly be some complaints.


I personally wouldn't care who comes into the shower room, but then again, I'm not a person who's trying to keep anyone out.

What would they complain about? That the woman has too many muscles, and too much facial hair? That the guy has breast implants? Even if they look like a person of the opposite sex, if they have the same sex organs as everybody else, I don't think a reasonable person would complain.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I don't know, but my company recently announced that we would be having open gender bathrooms. There was a big meeting about it. I immediately used the women's room after the meeting. I followed 4 of them in, and stood in my stall with the thundering sound of a male pee from a standing position while I heard the female sitting position hiss sound. I had to chuckle. On the sink was a basket of feminine products. I told them I liked their gift basket. It was absurd.

Since then a few of the wannabe male lesbians have frequently used the men's room. It's always funny hearing them tinkle while some guy is blowing his butt out in the stall and a couple of us are standing using the urinal. At the sinks it's so absurd with their male haircuts, short statures, squeaky voices standing next to hairy, tall, farting men.

If that's what they want, so be it! Personally I'd rather sit on the women's room toilet after seeing them that day after the meeting. Much cleaner.

I'm amazed at the amount of time, energy, and thought some people put into this subject. I would just go to the bathroom as I normally have in the past; I'm not really interested in who else is in there or speaking to people in there.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm amazed at the amount of time, energy, and thought some people put into this subject. I would just go to the bathroom as I normally have in the past; I'm not really interested in who else is in there or speaking to people in there.

As I said earlier, locker rooms and spas pose the stickier (so to speak) problem.