Lets talk about salvation

[VelvetElvis]

Are you saying that Jesus didn't mean what He said here? :

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:​

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?​

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.​

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

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What I have learned is this: When Jesus was teaching His followers and others, He was teaching them the perfection of the OT Law, because they were all un-born again Jews, who were under the Law. After the cross, when they were born again and under the New Covenant in His blood.......they could forgive, because they had already been forgiven by God. Under the OT Law, if you didn't forgive, you wouldn't be forgiven.

So, are you under the New Covenant, or are you still under the Old Covenant Law? There is a difference!

 

[JimfromOhio]

Yes, it is a matter of the heart, that is very true . . . however:

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?​

Joy is an issue of the heart . . the belief Jesus ascribes to those who are the rocky soil is much more than a mental belief . . it is a belief of the heart, for it is accompanied by joy - Again:

Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
​

"receive"

G1209
δέχομαι
dechomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to take with the hand
1a) to take hold of, take up
2) to take up, receive
2a) used of a place receiving one
2b) to receive or grant access to, a visitor, not to refuse intercourse or friendship
2b1) to receive hospitality
2b2) to receive into one’s family to bring up or educate
2c) of the thing offered in speaking, teaching, instructing
2c1) to receive favourably, give ear to, embrace, make one’s own, approve, not to reject2d) to receive. i.e. to take upon one’s self, sustain, bear, endure
3) to receive, get
3a) to learn
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: middle voice of a primary verb
Citing in TDNT: 2:50, 146
​

So there is full acceptance of the thing taught . . Here, the Gospel of Christ . . .

"joy"

G5479
χαρά
chara
khar-ah'
From G5463; cheerfulness, that is, calm delight: - gladness, X greatly, (X be exceeding) joy (-ful, -fully, -fulness, -ous).​

So, this is teaching that has been embraced, accepted fully, made one's own with exceeding joy . . .

"believe"

G4100
πιστεύω
pisteuō
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.


G4100
πιστεύω
pisteuō
Thayer Definition:
1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4102
Citing in TDNT: 6:174, 849
​

This is true, real belief . . real trust in Christ . .saving faith!

Jesus is speaking of REAL belief . . not a false belief . .

And yet, because the ground was not good enough to allow this faith to persevere, the person will not endure in a time of temptation and will fall away . . . .

This is demonstrating the process of salvation . . we currently have the hope of our salvation. Final salvation is not ours until we leave this world in a state of divine sanctifying grace . . in friendship with God.




And so we must do something . . . we must tend our garden . . . .we must till it, keep it free from weeds and insects . . .

So yes, we must do something . . . .


.

Your statement is basically saying "works secures your salvation" when God says its the other way around.

When I am alone with God, He taught me the true meaning of a spiritual life. The Holy Spirit convicts my heart to discern my spiritual health by asking myself: "Is my spiritual life superficial or real?" The real issue that I have been learning recently is that the real hindrance to my spiritual progress is not fully submitting to the Holy Spirit. Nothing holy and genuine will be done in my life until my will is surrendered in active obedience to the Holy Spirit. I have learned to understand the true nature of the Christian life which is unpredictable and expanding called "sanctification". God does not desire to destroy my will, but to sanctify “my will into His will”. The primary work of Christ in redemption is to justify and sanctify believers. Christians fail by formalizing faith in measure (works) because true Christian life means sanctifying effects of cross carrying and practical obedience. During the sanctification process, Christians need spiritual training which is forming spiritual fruits that we need to arm themselves spiritually to wrestle against the world, the devil and the flesh.

If God is pleased, the humbled Christian is pleased for that reason, and if it pleases God to exalt another above a humble Christian, he/she is content to have it so. A Christian will pursue the will of God actively and be enthusiastic and the attitude toward Christ, a Christian will manifest love and burning devotion from the heart. A true Christian zeal is not based on works but proves only that the one who manifests it is healthy, balanced, energetic and actively interested in serving God's will with Spirit-Filled fruits (not works). Faith is a gift from the Holy Spirit, without the Holy Spirit, you can't have faith and without the Holy Spirit, you can't be spiritual. If you don't have faith, then you don't have the Holy Spirit. Faith don't come before the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit comes before Faith. Faith will express itself in faith deeds not just words alone. In Galatians 6:3 says "If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself." And in James 1:26 says, "If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless." Someone may try to give someone "credit" for getting saved when they think they have done it from the works of faith. God's Grace and Gift: Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.

 

[thereselittleflower]

What I have learned is this: When Jesus was teaching His followers and others, He was teaching them the perfection of the OT Law, because they were all un-born again Jews, who were under the Law. After the cross, when they were born again and under the New Covenant in His blood.......they could forgive, because they had already been forgiven by God. Under the OT Law, if you didn't forgive, you wouldn't be forgiven.

Hi Velvet . . I understand that some believe that we can take apart Jesus' teachings and apply some to the Jews under the Old Covenant and others to believers under the New Covenant .. .

I have to be honest with you . . please do not take offense . . .

Such an approach in an innovation that stems from dispenationalism that not even all dispenastioanlists agree with and find to be a highly erroneous position to hold.

This is an example of the dangers of dispensationalist teaching I mentioned earlier. . it affects how we see everything in scripture . . even going so far, in some circles, as to denounce the validity of some of the teachings of Jesus as being applicable to believers today.

Never in the history of the Christian Church was this ever taught . . it is not the teaching of the apostles or the Early Church Fathers.

This is an innovation VE . . . Those words of Jesus apply just as much to you and me as to the apostles and the Early Christians. Fully and completely.

So, are you under the New Covenant, or are you still under the Old Covenant Law? There is a difference!

There is a difference between the Old and New Covenants. . . but Jesus' teaching belongs to the New . . .


.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Your statement is basically saying "works secures your salvation" when God says its the other way around.

Jim . . for one to receive the hope of their salvation, one must be justified, right?

The scriptures tell us that man is not justified or saved by faith alone. That man is justified by faith and works together.

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

The problem is that in the NT, two different types of works are spoken of . . . works of the law, which are those works done in the power of man (what Paul denounces) . . . and good works, which are those works done in and through and by the power of God's Grace, which we see above in James.

These good works, done in and through and by the power of God's grace, which we cooperate with in order to do them, contribute to our justification and salvation. . .

We are not saved by faith alone . . . .


.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Jim . . for one to receive the hope of their salvation, one must be justified, right?

The scriptures tell us that man is not justified or saved by faith alone. That man is justified by faith and works together.

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

The problem is that in the NT, two different types of works are spoken of . . . works of the law, which are those works done in the power of man (what Paul denounces) . . . and good works, which are those works done in and through and by the power of God's Grace, which we see above in James.

These good works, done in and through and by the power of God's grace, which we cooperate with in order to do them, contribute to our justification and salvation. . .

We are not saved by faith alone . . . .


.

There is a misunderstanding "living by faith" (Galatians 2:20) when it comes to "work", to mean that focusing on "our effort" based on works rather than obedience to holiness, adding faith and fruits through grace. Proverbs 21:2, "People may think they are doing what is right, but the Lord examines the heart." (NLT). When Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, He said: "They do all their deeds to be noticed by men" (Mt. 23:5). Back in the days of Pharisees, they thought they were rewarded by God for doing the deeds that were required of them from God. Jesus rebuked them and told them that God looks in the heart, not what they did. Proverbs 15:24 The path of life leads upward for the wise to keep him from going down to the grave. Ecclesiastes 2:21 For a man may do his work with wisdom, knowledge and skill, and then he must leave all he owns to someone who has not worked for it. This too is meaningless and a great misfortune.

People are really confused the balance between the works and faith.

The key is: Does Christ rule your heart or does sin rule your heart? A person with Christ in the heart will still sin but we are reminded by the Word of God that God looks into our hearts for our spiritual obedience rather than perfection (Deeds). We will never be perfect as long as we live in our bodies. Our source is in the core which is the heart.

Do we really obey God from our hearts? Do we make every efforts to obey God from our hearts?

Or, do we really obey our sin without even trying to obey God? Are we saved by Grace or by works of deeds?

In measure of faith with works are listed in 2 Peter, Chapter 1, verses 5 through 9: "make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. (For more details on this.... go to Christian Forums > Christians Only Section > Edification > Deeper Fellowship>AddingToFaith

 

[lismore]

I'm not sure just who you are directing this towards but if I was thereselittleflower I might be thinking that that was directed towards me.
.

It was not an insult as shown by the smilie, it was meant as a hunorous remark, and I was directing towards the people who always will come to posts on salvation and share about saved by grace, but lost again by lack of good works. And they can never say how many good works are enough.

Will someone who does good works 46% of the time go to heaven and someone who does good works only 45% of the time go to hell? Where is the minimum level of good works you must do to be saved or keep your salvation shown?

No, salvation has nothing to do with our works, we are saved by grace and not of ourselves. Salvation is the gift of God, given to those who did not and cannot ever deserve it if they will only open their heart and receive Jesus. We cannot earn it and therefore cannot un-earn it. We cannot make ourselves worthy to receive salvation and cannot make ourselves worthy to keep it. If we could, it would not be grace.

 

[lismore]

Are you saying that Jesus didn't mean what He said here? :

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:​

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?​

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.​

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

.

Once again 'if ye from your hearts forgive' is not our work. You have just underlined what I am saying. Its Christ's work in us, Jesus Christ in us the hope of glory, that is important.

The human heart is deceitful and wicked above all things, who can change it apart from God? Can the leopard change his spots?

Unless God changes your heart you cannot love unconditionally, forgive unconditionally, have the compassion and love of Jesus in your heart.

It is impossible for a person by good works to authentically recreate the work of the Holy SPirit apart from the Holy SPirit. If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, the old has gone and the new has come. It is not possible for you yourself to become a new creation by good works apart from Christ. You cannot make yourself born again. Its only Jesus's work in you that counts.

 

[Thomas35]

How do we gat saved?

Can we lose our salvation?

With some of the threads on here will it affect my salvation, If i believe this and you believe that.

what do you think, when judgement comes will God look at the petty disputes on here and judge us accordingly or as he his a God of love accept our failings.

What or Who is our salvation. God said in the old testament he would bring salvation to the earth. Who came? Jesus. Where is Jesus right now? The right hand of the Father.
When you hear about Jesus and accept The Holy Spirits calling and truly believe in Jesus and what He did on the Cross. You will be saved.
Jesus said we must stand firm until the end to be saved. Matt 24:13.
Jesus said make every effort to enter through the narrow gate. Luke 13:24.
When we look at the whole bible not the verses that tickle our ears. We see we have the hope of eternal life. Salvation to come.
We can not lose salvation we do not have it yet. Salvation is to come its in heaven right now where it can't fade or spoil. Read 1 Peter 1:4 & 5.
We are saved by Grace through Faith. Eph 2:8

We must have faith in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross.
We can wander from our faith. Without faith impossible to please God. Jesus said many would turn away from the Faith in the last days. Matt 24:10. Paul said in 1 Tim 4:1 People in th last days would wander from the faith. Read 1 Tim, We see we can shipwreck, abandon, wander, money will cause many to wander from the faith.

We can wander from the faith. Salvation is still there, its Jesus. We can have salvation now but just through faith. We can wander from that faith.

There is nothing we can do to earn salvation, its God's gift. We receive it through faith in Jesus. Faith comes from Romans 10:17.
Our effort must be in the right thing, our faith, we must hold on to and build and share our faith. Faith is our part God has the gift ready for all who have faith in Jesus and the Cross.
When a person sins we don't lose our faith but it give satan a foothold. It may take years for a person to wander from the Fathers hand, but we can. John 10:27-29 talks about not being snatched out of the Fathers hand. When we read scripture we must go back to the original text. Greek and Hebrew. The word snatched mean: can not be taken quickly, or forced out. Satan knows we can be drawn out by our own fleshly wants and desires.

God Bless

 

[JimfromOhio]

Are you saying that Jesus didn't mean what He said here? :

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

.

I missed this so I wanted to respond. Forgiveness is really hard to do........

Forgiveness is REALLY hard to do. Remember when Jesus asked, "Which is more difficult, to heal disease or forgive sin?" (Mk. 2:9). ? If its hard to forgive, then it is hard to love another because LOVE forgives. Love hopes all things (1 Corinth 13). Love refuses to take human failure as final. With Christ in me, my human failures are never final. Love never keeps a record of wrongs. Love forgives and love is unable to think about them anymore. Forget the past and move on. Focus on the future as I focus on Christ at the same time. Romans 4:8 (also Psalms 32:2) "Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him". In 1 Corinthians 13:5 says "Love does not act unbecomingly"; which means a Christian should demonstrate godly love and have real Christian credibility.

If we forgive those who sin against us, our heavenly Father will forgive us. But if we refuse to forgive others, our Father will not forgive our sins. Hate what is wrong. Stand on the side of the good. Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other. Live in Harmony with each other. Don't try to act important, but enjoy the company of ordinary people. Don't think we know it all. Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Do things in such a way that everyone can see we are honorable. Christians are to act like Jesus, toward sinners and brethren in compassion, toward saints in warm affection, toward others in love. We are to be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Jesus Christ has forgiven us.

 

[he4rty]

Thanks for the responses, Forgive me if I don't post any scripture but I hopeless at remembering where they where.

Faith v's works

Its always been my understanding that true faith will generate good works, not the other way around, which means we can only be saved through faith.

As far as the sower goes, several times the bible tells that even demons believe, so just because we believe doesn't mean we are truly saved.

I don't know what seed I am but i pray to God that i am the last one on the list.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Once again 'if ye from your hearts forgive' is not our work. You have just underlined what I am saying. Its Christ's work in us, Jesus Christ in us the hope of glory, that is important.

It IS Christ's work in us! That is just it! It is not our own work. But we must cooperate with Christ's work in us, RESPOND to Him and what He is doing in us. We are not mere passive vegetative recipients of His work in us . . .we are ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS in His work in us.

This is the point I don't think you are understanding in my position.

We are not talking about what man can do in his own power and strength, but what we do in GOD'S power and strength.

The difference is the source of power and strength. Not whether or not we have to do something.

The human heart is deceitful and wicked above all things, who can change it apart from God? Can the leopard change his spots?

Unless God changes your heart you cannot love unconditionally, forgive unconditionally, have the compassion and love of Jesus in your heart.

It is impossible for a person by good works to authentically recreate the work of the Holy SPirit apart from the Holy SPirit.

And how is it that we are disagreeing on anything here? you said "apart from the Holy Spirit" I totally 100% agree!

That is what I have always said lismore . . Good works can only flow from the power of the Holy Spirit . . they cannot flow from our own power. They are our response to God's Grace . . . they are avenues of God's Grace . . BECAUSE IT IS GOD who so empowers us.

If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, the old has gone and the new has come. It is not possible for you yourself to become a new creation by good works apart from Christ.

Never claimed otherwise lismore.

You cannot make yourself born again.

Of course not. But one is born again because of one's response to Christ's work in us.

Its only Jesus's work in you that counts.

Our response, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to Jesus' work in us counts too . . . .


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[thereselittleflower]

he4rty, these are issues of God's grace . . faith is the response of the heart to God's Grace . . Good works are the response of the heart to God's Grace . . they go hand in hand, just like the body and the spirit . . .

Just like the body without the spirit is dead, so is faith without works. . .

It is the spirit which gives life to the body . .

James uses this analogy to teach us about the relationship of faith and works. . .

He likens faith to the body . . and works to the spirit . .

Just as the body needs the spirit to live, so faith needs works to live:

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

This is quite stunning actually . . .


James is clearly saying that it is our works which makes our faith living. Otherwise, it is dead and good for nothing.

It is not a matter of which came first, the chicken or the egg . . .

Faith and works go together, like two sides of the coin, like light and heat of a flame . . . . they are inseperable if one has a saving faith.


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[lismore]

Our response, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to Jesus' work in us counts too . . . .
.

These things come after salvation. Human good works have no part in gaining salvation, its the grace of God.
But a believer by nature, his new nature as a new creation, will automatically be his new nature as a new creation! Its not about what you do, its about who you are in Christ. Who you are determines what you do.

 

[lismore]

As far as the sower goes, several times the bible tells that even demons believe, so just because we believe doesn't mean we are truly saved.

I don't know what seed I am but i pray to God that i am the last one on the list.

Hi Friend

You seem like a person who needs that blessed assurance of salvation that only the Holy Spirit can give you.

Do you have the baptism of the Holy SPirit friend? The bible says the Holy Spirit is the seal, the deposit, the guarantor of eternal life.

How do you know you are saved? Well, when you have the irrevocable gift of the Holy Spirit in you he it the witness and the intercessor. All this legalistic rubbish about the good works you have to do to keep your salvation is irrelevant to the Holy SPirit, He leads into all truth and shows you what you can do for other people so that they can have salvation too. Salvation from sins, salvation from depression, salvation from unbelief, salvation from sickness, from worry.

 

[he4rty]

Hi Friend

You seem like a person who needs that blessed assurance of salvation that only the Holy Spirit can give you.

Do you have the baptism of the Holy SPirit friend? The bible says the Holy Spirit is the seal, the deposit, the guarantor of eternal life.

How do you know you are saved? Well, when you have the irrevocable gift of the Holy Spirit in you he it the witness and the intercessor. All this legalistic rubbish about the good works you have to do to keep your salvation is irrelevant to the Holy SPirit, He leads into all truth and shows you what you can do for other people so that they can have salvation too. Salvation from sins, salvation from depression, salvation from unbelief, salvation from sickness, from worry.

Thanks for your concern, I have the baptism of the spirit, but I don't know why, to say I am going to heaven always seems a prideful boast and not a humbling opinion. And one I don't feel i should make, Praise God for all he has done and is doing in my life.I think if asked my response would be that through Gods grace hopefully I will go to Heaven.
does any of that make sense.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hi he4rty

I was really looking forward to your reply after I answered your OP. So if you're still wanting to discuss this, I'm game! My post is #11

 

[nephilimiyr]

It was not an insult as shown by the smilie, it was meant as a hunorous remark, and I was directing towards the people who always will come to posts on salvation and share about saved by grace, but lost again by lack of good works. And they can never say how many good works are enough.

I was hoping that that was the case. Again, I mostly agree with you on this but whether you meant that as a joke or not I just wanted to make you aware that many here don't have the same sense of humor as you, if you know what I mean .

 

[lismore]

Thanks for your concern, I have the baptism of the spirit, but I don't know why, to say I am going to heaven always seems a prideful boast and not a humbling opinion. And one I don't feel i should make, Praise God for all he has done and is doing in my life.I think if asked my response would be that through Gods grace hopefully I will go to Heaven.
does any of that make sense.

Hi there

This 'going to heaven thing' always leaves me scratching my head a little bit.

We are already seated in the heavenly places in Christ (Ephesians 2:6). We pray 'your kingdom come' here. We wait for the glorious returning of our great God and saviour Jesus Christ who will come back to earth and reign from Jerusalem, we will reign with him in this world without end (Eph 3:21). See the Lord comes with thousands upon thousands of his saints to execute judgement against the unrighteous! His kingdom will know no end. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end.

You are not 'going to heaven' , Jesus the King comes here to reign. If you are in his Kingdom then thats it. Its not something you can flit in and out of because there is no other King and no other Kingdom. You have nowhere to go!

Jesus is coming back soon. When you see the fig tree blossom you know summer is near and the fig tree is blossoming, agree?

 

[he4rty]

Having a belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Faith through grace, that's all that is required, read my sig! Coming to this faith, God had created a new spirit in us, created to be just like him in true righteousness and holiness. If you have this spirit in you, you are saved.


I'm not dogmatic either way on the "once saved, always saved" doctrine. I believe both positions have truth and I consider myself somewhere in the middle.

I believe that when we are born again our new born spirit is alive in us and created in true righteousness and holiness and that we can be confident in our salvation no matter what. I also believe that all who God has elected will see salvation.

I don't believe someone can sin their way out of salvation but they can reject the new born spirit that has been birthed in them, thus cancelling out any benefits of salvation that they once may have had.


I'm only thinking I'm understanding you right in what you're asking. If you are born again then God considers you not only his child but totally righteous and holy in your new born spirit. The secondary things like difference's in doctrines or theologies will not effect this new born spirit but you have to guard yourself so that you will not go so far astray that you will end up rejecting the gracious gift that God has given you.


Oh yes, God will bring up to us everything that we have done or said either in public or private but thank God Almighty for Jesus our advocate!

There are many awards waiting for us, I don't know, maybe we might lose a few because of how we conducted ourselves here on earth or because of our lack of obedience but no matter how big or beautiful the awards God has for me....The book of Rev. talks about elders casting their crowns at Gods feet. That's me brother! 100% man! I don't care how big or little my crown is going to be, I'm casting it down at his feet when I see Him and realise just how foolish and unworhty I really am!

I am in agreement with most of what you have to say, But when we are judge if we have confeesed our sin and been forgiven will that still be brought up at the time of our judgement. after all forgiveness means God will no longer remember what we have done.

 

[he4rty]

Hi there

This 'going to heaven thing' always leaves me scratching my head a little bit.

We are already seated in the heavenly places in Christ (Ephesians 2:6). We pray 'your kingdom come' here. We wait for the glorious returning of our great God and saviour Jesus Christ who will come back to earth and reign from Jerusalem, we will reign with him in this world without end (Eph 3:21). See the Lord comes with thousands upon thousands of his saints to execute judgement against the unrighteous! His kingdom will know no end. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end.

You are not 'going to heaven' , Jesus the King comes here to reign. If you are in his Kingdom then thats it. Its not something you can flit in and out of because there is no other King and no other Kingdom. You have nowhere to go!

Jesus is coming back soon. When you see the fig tree blossom you know summer is near and the fig tree is blossoming, agree?

Agreed to a point, I think I might start another thread on this because its always intrigued me that in Jesus we shall have enternal life yet when Jesus returns to the earth its only for a thousand years.