Lets talk about salvation

[he4rty]

There are many awards waiting for us, I don't know, maybe we might lose a few because of how we conducted ourselves here on earth or because of our lack of obedience but no matter how big or beautiful the awards God has for me....The book of Rev. talks about elders casting their crowns at Gods feet. That's me brother! 100% man! I don't care how big or little my crown is going to be, I'm casting it down at his feet when I see Him and realise just how foolish and unworhty I really am!

Just reading through this passage again, and as a father would I deny the heritence of my children because of something they had done, most probably not, Love for them outways all the wrong they do, which is why when telling them off we always try to make the point that I still love you but don't like the way you are behaving.
So once we become a child of God and he has that love for us then we are the only ones who can walk away from it, But would God stop loving us even though we deny him, possibly not. Just some random thoughts.

 

[lismore]

Agreed to a point, I think I might start another thread on this because its always intrigued me that in Jesus we shall have enternal life yet when Jesus returns to the earth its only for a thousand years.

Jesus reigns forever. After 1,000 years Satan is released from his prison and there is the mother of all battles as all nation comes against Jerusalem to overthrow the Lord. But the Lord scoffs and says:

Psalm 2:


1 Why do the nations conspire [a]
and the peoples plot in vain?

2 The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the LORD
and against his Anointed One. [b]
3 "Let us break their chains," they say,
"and throw off their fetters."
4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.
5 Then he rebukes them in his anger
and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, 6 "I have installed my King [c]
on Zion, my holy hill."


Jesus will reign on David's throne in Jerusalem FOREVER!

 

[lismore]

.There are many awards waiting for us, I don't know, maybe we might lose a few because of how we conducted ourselves here on earth or because of our lack of obedience but no matter how big or beautiful the awards God has for me....The book of Rev. talks about elders casting their crowns at Gods feet. That's me brother! 100% man! I don't care how big or little my crown is going to be, I'm casting it down at his feet when I see Him and realise just how foolish and unworhty I really am!

Thats good ministry. A believer cannot loose their salvation. Salvation depends on Jesus not on our works.

Jesus will however give the believer rewards when he returns, crowns, to the measure of what they have done in him.

Revelation 22:12
"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.


There will be a lot of very embarrassed Christians on the day of the Lord who will see that their good and religous works were just filthy rags, shrivelled up leaves and excrement in a Holy God's sight.

One crown every believer should get though is the crown of righteousness:

2 Timothy 4:8
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.


You get the crown of righteousness when you long for the return of our great God and saviour Jesus Christ. You do not get the crown of righteousness for any 'good works', you will be shamed when you try to hold up these to God.

Revelation 22:

17The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.


Amen, COme Lord Jesus. Maranatha! Can anyone here agree with me and say 'amen'. Come Lord Jesus!

 

[nephilimiyr]

I am in agreement with most of what you have to say, But when we are judge if we have confeesed our sin and been forgiven will that still be brought up at the time of our judgement. after all forgiveness means God will no longer remember what we have done.

That's true, and perhaps I'm wrong about what I said there but let's look closer at the word Confess and what exactly we are asked to do.

Jesus says we are to turn away from our sins, we are supposed to repent. There is alot more to this than just confession, we need a heart of repentence. We can confess our sins to God all day long but if we have no heart towards repentence don't you think our confession is a bunch of empty words?

Now lets look at your original question.

what do you think, when judgement comes will God look at the petty disputes on here and judge us accordingly or as he his a God of love accept our failings.

God is a Spirit and if we're born again our spirit is all he is able to commune with. We commune with God Spirit to spirit and when He sees us, our spirit is really all he sees or considers.

If we are born again, we have that spirit in us that was created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Because of this God will accept our faults and failings because any fault we may have is committed in either the body or soul and when it comes to salvation God doesn't look at the body or soul but only considers the spirit.

So, the answer to your question I would have to say is that if we are born again and have that spirit created by God then yes, God will accept us.

 

[he4rty]

Just for the record the above quote in post 43 was by nephilimiyr not me and yes it is a good qoute.

 

[he4rty]

That's true, and perhaps I'm wrong about what I said there but let's look closer at the word Confess and what exactly we are asked to do.

Jesus says we are to turn away from our sins, we are supposed to repent. There is alot more to this than just confession, we need a heart of repentence. We can confess our sins to God all day long but if we have no heart towards repentence don't you think our confession is a bunch of empty words?

Now lets look at your original question.

God is a Spirit and if we're born again our spirit is all he is able to commune with. We commune with God Spirit to spirit and when He sees us, our spirit is really all he sees or considers.

If we are born again, we have that spirit in us that was created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Because of this God will accept our faults and failings because any fault we may have is committed in either the body or soul and when it comes to salvation God doesn't look at the body or soul but only considers the spirit.

So, the answer to your question I would have to say is that if we are born again and have that spirit created by God then yes, God will accept us.

great post.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Just for the record the above quote in post 43 was by nephilimiyr not me and yes it is a good qoute.

Thank you he4rty but you know something, now that I look at what I said in that last line I might now have a problem with, or realise that I left it too vague.

In our spirits we are worthy, in our bodies and souls we don't ever come close to being worthy. The apostle Paul once said that we are to stop considering ourselves after the flesh but now only after the spirit. What's he saying there? I think what he's saying is that now that we are born again and have this new created spirit in us we are to stop looking at ourselves as sinners who are never worthy for the goodness of God or to be in his presence. Every once in a while I hear people saying "I'm just an old sinner saved by grace"...No you are not! We have become the righteousness of God in Christ! And that is how we are told to consider ourselves as.

Point is, in heaven I will be worthy because God has made me worthy. If I wasn't worthy I would never be given the chance to throw anything down at God's feet.

 

[Alpine]

"Then they said unto Him, What shall we do that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." --John 6:28, 29

[SIZE=+5]Romans 10:9[/SIZE]

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

 

[he4rty]

Thank you he4rty but you know something, now that I look at what I said in that last line I might now have a problem with, or realise that I left it too vague.

In our spirits we are worthy, in our bodies and souls we don't ever come close to being worthy. The apostle Paul once said that we are to stop considering ourselves after the flesh but after the spirit. What's he saying there? I think what he's saying is that now that we are born again and have this new created spirit in us we are to stop looking at ourselves as sinners who are never worthy for the goodness of God or to be in his presence. Every once in a while I hear people saying "I'm just an old sinner saved by grace"...No you are not! We have become the righteousness of God in Christ! And that is how we are told to consider ourselves as.

Point is, in heaven I will be worthy because God has made me worthy. If I wasn't worthy I would never be given the chance to throw anything down at God's feet.

Thats a good response and something i will need to remind my self of from time to time because i do feel like a sinner saved by God, not always someone reborn into rightousness.

 

[he4rty]

"Then they said unto Him, What shall we do that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." --John 6:28, 29

[SIZE=+5]Romans 10:9[/SIZE]

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

And from a baptist stand point thats why we beleive in adult baptism because it gives you the chance to do this in front of witnesses.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Thats a good response and something i will need to remind my self of from time to time because i do feel like a sinner saved by God, not always someone reborn into rightousness.

Welcome to the club, sort of speak! Paul also says that we are to renew or minds through the new born spirit that has been created in us. For the large majority of all of us, this is a life time endevor. We don't ever stop renewing or minds to what and who we have become.

 

[MikeMcK]

How do we gat saved?

Repentance and faith in Christ.

Can we lose our salvation?

No. We cannot lose our salvation.

 

[he4rty]

Welcome to the club, sort of speak! Paul also says that we are to renew or minds through the new born spirit that has been created in us. For the large majority of all of us, this is a life time endevor. We don't ever stop renewing or minds to what and who we have become.

Yep, and this is where being saved is only the start of the journey not the end and something to be remembered, as you say we must constantly be renewing our minds and this is where daily bible study and prayer to a point come into the equation, for what goes into the heart cometh out.

 

[thereselittleflower]

These things come after salvation.

Why do you think so? Where in the bible does it say that?

Good works are the hearts response to God's Grace . . .

It is very possible for God to give grace to an unbeliever to do a good work . . responding to God's grace by cooperating with God and doing this good work releases more grace into their lives . . . at somepoint, the grace being received allows them to respond in faith.

Human good works have no part in gaining salvation, its the grace of God.

Why do people keep arguing this as though someone said that human works, which are works done in and through man's strength alone, can save anyone?

No one has made such an argument . . . so this doesn't address anything I said.

But a believer by nature, his new nature as a new creation, will automatically be his new nature as a new creation!

Then why do so many Christians fail to do good works?

Its not about what you do, its about who you are in Christ. Who you are determines what you do.

Then why did Jesus say things like Because you DID it unto the least of these enter the kingdom prepared for you . . . Because you DID IT NOT unto the least of these, depart from me . .

I wrote a cautionary tale a year or so ago . . . I would like to share it here now to help drive home the point I am making . . . .


.

 

[thereselittleflower]

A Cautionary Tale


One day, a group of souls suddenly found themselves standing before the Gates of Heaven and Jesus was there before them.

Some appeared with great expectancy on their faces, others looked a little doubtful.

Jesus asked them all . . . "Did you do the will of My Father?"

One, smiling with expectancy, eagerly said "LORD! I cast out many demons in You Name!" Another shouted out, "LORD! I prophesied to many in Your Name!", and another delcared "LORD! I did mighty deeds in Your Name!", and others started chiming in with all the wonderous things they had done in His Name.

Some, though, were looking around, feeling like they were on the outside, because they had never really done any of these things. A few were looking down at the ground, not daring to look up.

Jesus held up His hands for silence.

After all the clamouring had died down, and everyone was waiting in silence, Jesus said to them

"But did you do My Father's will?"

Now, puzzled expressions began to appear on the faces of those who had just jumped in declaring the great and mighty things they had done in Jesus' Name. No one said anything for a few momments. . . . . . Then one gathered up enough bravery to ask, "What do you mean? Didn't we do the Father's will when we did all these mighty and wonderful things?" Others began to join in adding their assent to the question that was perplexing them.

Jesus waited for the murmurring to die down. Then He asked:

"Did you give a glass of water to one of these little ones in My Name?"

He waited . . hands began to go up. The ones who had been so loudly proclaiming their mighty deeds, began to look around them, their perplextion growing.

"Did you give food to one of these little ones in My Name when they were hungry?"

More hand went up . . it was dead silent. Those who had first clamoured so expectantly, grew even more perplexed as they looked around at those who were raising their hands.

"Did you clothe one of these little ones in My Hame when they were naked?"

Hands began to go up again . . Again, those who had so expectantly declared their might deeds at first, looked around a little concerned now, and very perplexed.

"Did you take in one of these little ones in My Name when they were a stranger?"

Again, in the silence, the soft sound of hands being raised was all that could be heard, and this time some of those who had first declared their mighty deeds, rasied their hands too . . now with a more humble expression on their faces. The others looked on, some with a growing sense of alarm; but others with a confidence that even though they didn't understand what was going on, they didbn't need to worry about such "works", for they knew they were saved by grace through faith . .these works were totally unnecessary. A smugness began to settle over them as they thought they had everthing under control.

"Did you visit one of these little ones in My Name when they were sick?"

And the scene repeated itself as the soft silent sound of hands rising in the air answered. Those who had first been so sure in their expectancy, yet had never raised their hands, found themselves divided in their reactions to the unfolding situation. Some were showing signs of fear, realizing that something was indeed wrong, and though they tried to hide it, you could see it in their eyes. The others became even more certain they had nothing to fear, for they didn't believe in works. Works couldn't save, works couldn't justify one. They had nothing to worry about! And their smugness grew.

"Did you visit one of these little ones in My Name when they were in prison?"

Again, that silent, swoosh of hands rising in the air. Again, the look of fear in the eyes of some who had not raised their hands, and the look of smug confidence increasing in the eyes of those who didn't believe works did anything at all.


When the last hand was lowered, Jesus stood there in silence, looking at each one in turn. Some who had been worried right at first, even those who had looked at the ground because they had done no mighty works, now locked eyes with Jesus and saw His smiling at them and their eyes smiled back wrapped in peace and love.

Those who had first bragged about their mighty deeds found they couldn't look Jesus in the eye, turning away when His eyes found theirs. Those who had smuggly allowed themselves to feel confident because they "knew" that they needed no such works to be saved since faith was enough, found no smiles in Jesus' eyes for them, and could not keep their eyes locked on His. When they looked away, their eyes showed the first signs of real fear.

After all was done, Jesus spoke again:

"Those who raised your hands, come here to My right hand"

All those who had raised their hands made their way, peaceful and calm, to Jesus' right hand and stood there gazing on their Lord.

Then Jesus spoke again,

"Those who didn't raise your hands, come here and stand on My left."

Even though they were fearful of what this meant, and wanted to join the others on the right, they were compelled to obey. They gathered on His left, many nervous, some trembling.

When everyone was once again silently still, Jesus spoke again, first to those on His right,

"When you gave one of these little ones water when they were thirsty, food when they were hungry, clothes when they were naked; when you took them in when they were a stranger, when you visited them when they were sick or in prison . . .

Jesus paused, and looked at each and every one of those standing on His right, then He proceeded, softly and gently with great love .. .

" . . . . you did it unto Me."

They all gazed at Him with joyful awe, their faces radiant. . . .

Jesus continued, booming with great joy . .

"Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. Enter thou into the Joy of the Lord!"

And the gates of Heaven swung open with a mighty 'swoosh', followed by the angels who came out to usher them into heaven, with rapturous expressions, shining bright.




When all had entered, the gates of heaven closed, . . . the sound echoed in the silence.

Then Jesus slowly turned His attention to those on His left, with a look of deep sadness on His face. He looked at them and said.

"When you gave not one of these little ones water when they were thirsty, food when they were hungry, clothes when they were naked; when you took them not in when they were a stranger, when you visited them not when they were sick or in prison . . .

Jesus paused, and looked at each and every one of those standing on His left; then He proceeded, clearly and uncompromisingly .. .

" . . . . you did it not unto Me."

Fear filled the hearts and minds of those standing there, looking at the stern face of the Lord. Those who had held, to the bitter end, on to their belief that one could not be saved by works, that works were absolutely unnecessary for one's salvation, were in utter confusion. Hadn't they done what Jesus wanted? They wanted to cry out again 'Look at our ministries! Look at our mighty deeds! Look at how the power of the Holy Spirit moved through us! We brought so many souls to You!' But they could say nothing.

Jesus just looked them in the eyes, and all they could find was sternness, like steel.

The words they dreaded to hear finally came . .

‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Go away to eternal punishment!"


And in the suddenness of the momment, with weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, they found themselves flung far from Jesus and heaven . . . . . . . . . . . . .




. . . . . . never to see either again.





A Cautionary Tale

Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 25:31-46​

 

[thereselittleflower]

I am in agreement with most of what you have to say, But when we are judge if we have confeesed our sin and been forgiven will that still be brought up at the time of our judgement. after all forgiveness means God will no longer remember what we have done.

Then how is it that the ruler remembered the sins of unjust servant's after they had been all forgiven when the servant refused to forgive a fellow servant, and Jesus said

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Then how is it that the ruler remembered the sins of unjust servant's after they had been all forgiven when the servant refused to forgive a fellow servant, and Jesus said

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

.

Hi TALF

I don't believe God actually forgets our sins as in that they are erased from his memory but rather it should be said that He wont consider our sins as if we had never committed them. That is if we have a true heart of repentence.

Keep in mind, that the master in that parable you use doesn't bring up the old servants debt until the servant had committed a wrong by not forgiving others the same way the master forgave him. If the servant would have forgave others in the same way he was forgiven, the debt that the master cancelled out never would've been brought up again.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hi TALF

I don't believe God actually forgets our sins as in that they are erased from his memory but rather it should be said that He wont consider our sins as if we had never committed them. That is if we have a true heart of repentence.

Keep in mind, that the master in that parable you use doesn't bring up the old servants debt until the servant had committed a wrong by not forgiving others the same way the master forgave him. If the servant would have forgave others in the same way he was forgiven, the debt that the master cancelled out never would've been brought up again.

Exactly. I agree with you 100%.

It means that our forgiveness is indeed conditional . . . .


.

 

[he4rty]

Exactly. I agree with you 100%.

It means that our forgiveness is indeed conditional . . . .


.

If we then fail to forgive our salvation could be at risk, but bear in mind the servant was thrown into jail until his debt was paid. so how do you think that works in the grand design of things, is there somewhere we must pay our dues until we can see heaven?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Exactly. I agree with you 100%.

It means that our forgiveness is indeed conditional . . . .


.

I didn't say that nor is that what I meant.