Let's Talk About Hell

[SkyWriting]

Even though it will fall on deaf ears here it is again anyway.

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

If your saying Jesus came to save pigs, salamanders and butterflies from their Sins, your view has LITTLE support.
If your saying man has no more importance to God than a Beast, your view has LITTLE support.
If your saying God breathed life into men the same as animals, your view has LITTLE support.
If your saying the resurrected body is dust and will become dust once again, your view has LITTLE support.
If reading the scriptures is all in vanity, your view has LITTLE support.

There are MANY scriptural references that run counter to all the above literal and plain meanings of these verses. When these verses are put back in context, humans are not animals and have souls where animals do not.

Dead!

I do remember someone else contradicting God about this too.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Is that a physical or a spiritual death?
Is that NOW or Later, or "eventually at some point"?

Energy in the Cosmos is transformed but never destroyed.
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."New International Version

 

[Timothew]

Hell: (noun)

A place where you get poked with pitchforks by red men with horns and goatlegs and listen to the Village People sing for the rest of eternity.

The Urban Dictionary

 

[Yab Yum]

BWAHAHAHA

 

[Timothew]

BWAHAHAHA

 

[martymonster]

If your saying Jesus came to save pigs, salamanders and butterflies from their Sins, your view has LITTLE support.
If your saying man has no more importance to God than a Beast, your view has LITTLE support.
If your saying God breathed life into men the same as animals, your view has LITTLE support.
If your saying the resurrected body is dust and will become dust once again, your view has LITTLE support.
If reading the scriptures is all in vanity, your view has LITTLE support.

There are MANY scriptural references that run counter to all the above literal and plain meanings of these verses. When these verses are put back in context, humans are not animals and have souls where animals do not.



Is that a physical or a spiritual death?
Is that NOW or Later, or "eventually at some point"?

Energy in the Cosmos is transformed but never destroyed.
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."New International Version

What am I saying?

I didn't say anything much I just quoted scripture!

My point is that when you die you are dead.

Strange how christian's have so much trouble grasping this very basic concept even when evidence of it is presented to them in scripture.

If you don't believe scripture is the inspired word of God
Your beef is not with me, it's with God.

I find it funny that your version of die in Genesis is a spiritual death but in ecclesiasties only a physical death.

Hmm.

If you actually read what the scripture says instead of just reword it to suit your own theology, you'll notice that both man and beast go to the same place, which is the dust of the earth.

Then again, maybe Solomon didn't know what He was talking about eh?

 

[Der Alte]

What am I saying?

I didn't say anything much I just quoted scripture!

My point is that when you die you are dead.

Strange how christian's have so much trouble grasping this very basic concept even when evidence of it is presented to them in scripture.

If you don't believe scripture is the inspired word of God
Your beef is not with me, it's with God.

I find it funny that your version of die in Genesis is a spiritual death but in ecclesiasties only a physical death.

Hmm.

If you actually read what the scripture says instead of just reword it to suit your own theology, you'll notice that both man and beast go to the same place, which is the dust of the earth.

Then again, maybe Solomon didn't know what He was talking about eh?

Does God know what he is talking about? In Isaiah 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, and according to you the dead are dead. According to God speaking in this passage the dead in Sheol, move, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.

Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.​

In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in [size=+1]שאול/sheol. These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events.

Here is another passage where God himself is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking.

Ezek 32:18-22 (KJV)
18) Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword:[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.​

God is also speaking in this passage, the dead in Sheol speak, are ashamed, are comforted.[/SIZE]

 

[Timothew]

My sweetheart waits patiently for me,
buried under the apple tree.

Do people ever use poetic language?

 

[The Penitent Man]

Hell: (noun)

A place where you get poked with pitchforks by red men with horns and goatlegs and listen to the Village People sing for the rest of eternity.

The Urban Dictionary

The Urban Dictionary is hardly an authoritative source.

 

[Der Alte]

My sweetheart waits patiently for me,
buried under the apple tree.

Do people ever use poetic language?

People ain't God, and God ain't people! Did Solomon use poetry in Proverbs? Does Charlie Daniels play a mean fiddle? Was Solomon speaking from a human point of view? Or must we assume that God was using poetic language in a revelation to his prophet, which OBTW God never explains as poetic, etc., while anything/everything written by Solomon must be interpreted literally? If we want to know what God says about death who should we believe God himself, or Solomon writing poetry?

 

[addo]

Well, I certainly do not believe that. Paul told us that to be absent from the body is to be home with the Lord.

But he also told us that we "shall ever be with the Lord" at His second coming and when we are resurrected (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

Matthew tells us to do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul.

...and on the same verse He says: "but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

There is plenty of biblical evidence for a soul.

A mortal soul.

 

[addo]

I find it funny ... and disturbing at the same time:

The damned shall be packed like brick into a kiln, and be so bound that they cannot move a limb, nor even an eyelid; and while thus fixed, the Almighty shall blow the fires of hell through them for ever and ever.
​

Do you?

 

[martymonster]

Does God know what he is talking about? In Isaiah 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, and according to you the dead are dead. According to God speaking in this passage the dead in Sheol, move, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.

Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.​

In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in [SIZE=+1]שאול/sheol. These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events.

Here is another passage where God himself is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking.

Ezek 32:18-22 (KJV)
18) Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword:[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.​

God is also speaking in this passage, the dead in Sheol speak, are ashamed, are comforted.[/SIZE]

It's funny how the people who are supposed to be spiritual and see His words as spiritual (God's own people) are the ones to whom everything is physical.

No wonder you think dead people are actually alive.

Scripture says that dead people are dead and you who call yourself by His name, contradict Him!

Hmmm.

 

[Der Alte]

But he also told us that we "shall ever be with the Lord" at His second coming and when we are resurrected (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)....and on the same verse He says: "but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)A mortal soul.

Where is any verse in the Bible which states that God did, or will, destroy a soul?

 

[Timothew]

The Urban Dictionary is hardly an authoritative source.

I just thought it was funny.

 

[martymonster]

Where is any verse in the Bible which states that God did, or will, destroy a soul?

Since the soul is the mind, He will destroy them all.
He will destroy all carnal minds.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

[martymonster]

I find it funny ... and disturbing at the same time:

The damned shall be packed like brick into a kiln, and be so bound that they cannot move a limb, nor even an eyelid; and while thus fixed, the Almighty shall blow the fires of hell through them for ever and ever.
​

Do you?

Care to offer a source of the above quote?

 

[Der Alte]

Does God know what he is talking about? In Isaiah 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, and according to you the dead are dead. According to God speaking in this passage the dead in Sheol, move, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.

Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.​

In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in [size=+1]שאול/sheol. These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events.

Here is another passage where God himself is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking.

Ezek 32:18-22 (KJV)
18) Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword:[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.​

God is also speaking in this passage, the dead in Sheol speak, are ashamed, are comforted.[/SIZE]

It's funny how the people who are supposed to be spiritual and see His words as spiritual (God's own people) are the ones to whom everything is physical.

No wonder you think dead people are actually alive.

Scripture says that dead people are dead and you who call yourself by His name, contradict Him!

Hmmm.

Guess you are another Jim Jones or David Koresh and you alone know the real spiritual meaning of the verses I posted? Trouble with your argument is you can't prove it in any way. There have been many false religious before you claiming that they alone know the real meaning of scriptures, JW, LDS, UU, OP, anti-Trin-MJ, WWCG, kristdelfian, etc. Which one are you?

I haven't contradicted anything or "think" anything. I quoted two passages of scripture in which God, Himself, is speaking. If you don't like what God said, talk to him. I asked the question does God know what he is talking about? You quoted Solomon in Proverbs. You expect us to take what Solomon said literally although he was writing proverbs, and NOT saying, "Thus saith the Lord. . . " And further you want to say everything God, Himself, said was "spiritual," not literal.

Is Solomon or God your authority? If there is an apparent contradiction between what Solomon writes and what God said, it is God who is correct then we interpret what Solomon said to agree with God. You got it backwards.

 

[addo]

Care to offer a source of the above quote?

A friend of mine said it. I dunno where he has it from; even if he quoted it or invented it. But yet, that was a harsh way to say what the majority of Christians say today ... the view of eternal torture in eternal fire.

 

[Der Alte]

Since the soul is the mind, He will destroy them all.
He will destroy all carnal minds.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This doesn't specify anything which is destroyed. Once again show me a verse where God did, or will, destroy a soul?

 

[martymonster]

A friend of mine said it. I dunno where he has it from; even if he quoted it or invented it. But yet, that was a harsh way to say what the majority of Christians say today ... the view of eternal torture in eternal fire.

Yeah I found it.

The Rev. Isaac Ambrose says, 'The damned shall be packed like brick in a kiln, and be so bound that they cannot move a limb, nor even an eyelid; and while thus fixed, the Almighty shall blow the fires of hell through them forever.'

I put it into google.