Let's Talk About Hell

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Some things cannot be accepted by persuasion.
There are people who are so dominated by their natural mind, they cannot understand what the Scripture is saying about many things.

"Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged" (1Cor 2:14).

The reality of Hell comes by revelation from the Holy Spirit. When a person has not received the Holy Spirit and are trusting in their natural mind, they have little understanding of what the Gospel is all about. But when a sinner is sliding down into Hell, his eyes are opened and he sees his future as it really is, but it will be too late for him.

I could not agree more! I have long since abandoned the idea that I will convince the person I am talking to. IMO all we can hope for is that someone who is "lurking", not meant in a derogatory way, who is undecided, not knowing which view is scriptural, will see the errors, fallacies, etc. of those arguing from their tradition, and see how they often avoid addressing scripture which contadict them, and will from that reach an informed decision.

When you play chess, are you like my youngest brother who when he thinks he might be losing accidently upsets the board?

Our intelligent and resourceful researchers are awaiting your reply
:o

I thought I was very staightforward. That's more than I can say for others on this thread.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I thought I was very staightforward. That's more than I can say for others on this thread.

Of course you are, and you are respected for it. I never tease anyone I don't like. You are the type of person that makes this forum a very interesting and stimulating place to be. We learn more from controversy than if we agreed with each other all the time. Just forgive my sense of humour at times...

 

[Duckybill]

I'm convinced that those who believe punishment in Hell is not eternal are gonna be losers in the end.

 

[Der Alte]

[ . . . ]Matt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. * * *
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
* * *
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

NOTE: He destroyed the people and burnt up their city (the world system)

That is what is to be understood.[ . . . ]

The passage you quoted says nothing about a world system! What is to be understood is exactly what Jesus said is to be understood. "Many are called but few are chosen."

Many scholars such as Gill, Henry, Jamieson, Faussett, and Brown, NET, interpret this passage as the Roman legions destroying Jerusalem, because the Jews killed the prophets sent to warn them, and even the King's son.

 

[Lisa*Lisa]

I am revisiting and rethinking my stance on hell after listening this guys testimony. I highly suggest everyone watch this testimony. There are a total of 7 parts, the whole thing is probably less then an hour long total.


YouTube - 23 Minutes in Hell - Bill Wiese (1 of 7)

YouTube - 23 Minutes in Hell - Bill Wiese (2 of 7)

YouTube - 23 Minutes in Hell - Bill Wiese (3 of 7)

YouTube - 23 Minutes in Hell - Bill Wiese (4 of 7)

YouTube - 23 Minutes in Hell - Bill Wiese (5 of 7)

YouTube - 23 Minutes in Hell - Bill Wiese (6of 7)

YouTube - 23 Minutes in Hell - Bill Wiese (7 of 7)

 

[LJSGM]

I'd rather stick to what the scriptures say personally.... even the devil can give "visions."

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm convinced that those who believe punishment in Hell is not eternal are gonna be losers in the end.

I agree. Temporary pain is common and may be "worth it."
Like a shot of whiskey or the pain of the heroin needle.

 

[SkyWriting]

"Death" is the punctiliar, i.e. point in time, cessation of life. It has no physical substance, it cannot be thrown anywhere. However, there is a sentient being, called "Death", whom I refer to as the angel of death, who along with another sentient being, called "Hell," are given power to kill 1/4 of the earth.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. ​

These two beings are later thrown into the lake of fire and their power to kill ended.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.​

A new age/earth begins where people no longer die or are sent to Hell.
We got that.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'd rather stick to what the scriptures say personally.... even the devil can give "visions."

 

[SkyWriting]

... the reasons why Jesus seemed to just die while sinners will be tormented forever...

That would be because Jesus was the Son of God and had nothing to be tormented about...Sin, prideful decisions, turning others from God....etc.

That's another hint that Hell is not an oven that souls are baked in like gingerbread men on God's cookie sheet.

What worse punishment can there be than people stewing in their own Sin?

 

[chingchang]

You tell someone to keep their amateur Theology then you use a chapter about love to claim that God would not punish the unrighteous. Human parents love their children but they do punish them. Some people complain that spanking a disobedient child on his rear end is torture. But it is Biblical.

This is what one resorts to (above) when the facts are stacking up against their tightly-held doctrine. Oh yeah...spanking your child and endless torture in hell are close to one another...sure.

You say you know for certain then you use words like"implied" What is stated categorically, NOT implied, in Matthew 25:46, is that the unrighteous go away into everlasting punishment, and the righteous go away into everlasting life. If the everlasting punishment ends at some point, so does the everlasting life. Same word.

The punishment IS destruction (according to the Bible) which IS everlasting...meaning no resurrection from the 2nd death. It really isn't that hard to understand.

CC

 

[chingchang]

I'd rather stick to what the scriptures say personally.... even the devil can give "visions."

Yup. What is interesting to me is that these visions and others like it that I've read about always validate a particular doctrine with support from the Bible. Nothing new coming from "God". What we don't hear about is the visions that some are having that contradict these doctrines. I strongly believe that the doctrine of an endless torturous hell is inspired by Satan...as was this "vision".

CC

 

[SkyWriting]

The punishment IS destruction (according to the Bible) which IS everlasting...meaning no resurrection from the 2nd death. It really isn't that hard to understand.

CC

Why would anyone fear "destruction"? Seems pretty painless to me.
Why would I be concerned about that?

 

[Timothew]

Why would anyone fear "destruction"? Seems pretty painless to me.
Why would I be concerned about that?

I wouldn't choose "Destruction," if the other choice was "Life."

 

[SkyWriting]

Originally Posted by SkyWriting

Why would anyone fear "destruction"? Seems pretty painless to me. Why would I be concerned about that?
​

I wouldn't choose "Destruction," if the other choice was "Life."

That's nice. But getting back to my question.....

Why would anyone fear "destruction"?
Seems pretty painless to me.
Why would I be concerned about that?

 

[chingchang]

Why would anyone fear "destruction"? Seems pretty painless to me.
Why would I be concerned about that?

Some people prefer life...

CC

 

[chingchang]

Originally Posted by SkyWriting

Why would anyone fear "destruction"? Seems pretty painless to me. Why would I be concerned about that?
​

That's nice. But getting back to my question.....

Why would anyone fear "destruction"?
Seems pretty painless to me.
Why would I be concerned about that?

I'd fear that it wouldn't be instantaneous...that there would be much pain in the process. That said...the Bible tells us not to fear destruction...but the one who is ABLE to destroy both body and soul in hell.

CC

 

[SkyWriting]

Originally Posted by SkyWriting

Why would anyone fear "destruction"? Seems pretty painless to me.
Why would I be concerned about that?

​

Some people prefer life...

CC

Sure.
Non-smokers, Tea-tottalers, Nuns, etc.

I don't think the scriptures mentioned Hell-fire to get Sinners to change the preferences settings on their heavenly facebook pages.

Bible verse list - Scriptures about Hell from ScriptureMenu.com

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

For those who think that hellfire is cruel and unusual punishment they have never experienced the refiners fire. As the last verse of Heb 12 says "our God is a consuming fire" But there is only this life and the millenium before the second death ends life forever.
The condition of the natural heart is stony ground “All these evil things proceed from within,” says the Lord. But “Blessed are the pure in heart” because He is able to turn it into a heart of flesh.
The evil of the heart isn't suppressed but it cleansed. First in the blood of repentance then in the fire of purification.
Bringing them to the throne of grace is the process, while suppressing them does nothing but feed the temptation.
I don't know about you'll but I've done plenty of wailing and gnashing. If the Lord comes before my first death maybe I won't ever have to face death. But because Jesus has been in the fire with me I may never have to face the second death.
jmhoaisti

 

[chingchang]

Originally Posted by SkyWriting

Why would anyone fear "destruction"? Seems pretty painless to me.
Why would I be concerned about that?

​

Sure.
Non-smokers, Tea-tottalers, Nuns, etc.

I don't think the scriptures mentioned Hell-fire to get Sinners to change the preferences settings on their heavenly facebook pages.

Bible verse list - Scriptures about Hell from ScriptureMenu.com

I agree. But the question is what happens in that hell-fire? Are souls destroyed or tortured endlessly? I can demonstrate with both OT/NT scripture that souls are destroyed in hell. The Bible teaches that plainly. In addition...Yahweh's character is revealed to us in the OT. He is not a torturous God. Sure...he destroys (many examples)...but he NEVER...EVER tortures. Here are some resources to get you started on undoing the flawed theology that resulted in the evil doctrine that you now subscribe to:

The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment

Thayer: The Origin and History of Endless Punishment

Yahweh does not torture!!!!

CC