Let's Talk About Hell

[Der Alte]

Once again, Gehenna and hades are not the same place and Gehenna is a reference to the Lake of fire....not hell.

Once again you are wrong, you evidently don't know what you are talking about! This is your own unsupported opinion and the teaching of false religious groups which did not exist before 1845, such as JW, LDS, SDA, UPCI, UU, OP, proto-WWCG, anti-trin MJ, kristadelfian, and others more recent.

Before and during the time of Jesus the Jews believed that God had prepared a place of eternal, unending, fiery punishment for the unrighteous. They called it Gehenna and Sheol! See the evidence I have posted before!

Previous post, from the Jewish Encyclopedia, the Jewish view of eternal, unending punishment of the unrighteous. Click Link!

Previous post citing the Talmud, the teaching of Hillel and Shammai in Israel, at the time of Jesus, teaching on eternal punishment. Click Link!

 

[Timothew]

Note how in virtually every post you misrepresent what is posted and/or make blatantly false statements!


When Jesus said,

• "You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.", Matt 5:22
• "thy whole body should be cast into hell," Matt 5:29,
• "And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matt 13:49,
• "cast into everlasting fire," Matt 18:8,
• "Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Matt 22:2
• "twofold more the child of hell than yourselves," Matt 23:13
• "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire," Matt 25:41, 46
• "go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" Mar 9:43 - 48, (3X)
• "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Luk 13;28,
• "in hell [ . . . ] tormented in this flame . . . place of torment." Luke 16:19-31
• "cast them into the fire, and they are burned," John 15:6

the Jews understood him to be talking about Gehenna/Hades a place prepared by God for the eternal, unending punishment of the unrighteous!

Nice try. Sheol means the grave. Hades is the greek translation of Sheol.
When Jesus said Hades, the Jews would understand that as the same as Sheol.

The pagan idea of eternal torture was not dreamed up until later.
I know that you will fight for the idea of Hell as Torture until your dying day, but you can't support it with scripture.

 

[Der Alte]

Note how in virtually every post you misrepresent what is posted and/or make blatantly false statements!

When Jesus said,

• "You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.", Matt 5:22
• "thy whole body should be cast into hell," Matt 5:29,
• "And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matt 13:49,
• "cast into everlasting fire," Matt 18:8,
• "Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Matt 22:2
• "twofold more the child of hell than yourselves," Matt 23:13
• "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire," Matt 25:41, 46
• "go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" Mar 9:43 - 48, (3X)
• "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Luk 13;28,
• "in hell [ . . . ] tormented in this flame . . . place of torment." Luke 16:19-31
• "cast them into the fire, and they are burned," John 15:6

the Jews understood him to be talking about Gehenna/Hades a place prepared by God for the eternal, unending punishment of the unrighteous!

Nice try. Sheol means the grave. Hades is the greek translation of Sheol.
When Jesus said Hades, the Jews would understand that as the same as Sheol.

The pagan idea of eternal torture was not dreamed up until later.
I know that you will fight for the idea of Hell as Torture until your dying day, but you can't support it with scripture.

Nice try, you continue to deny, deny, deny and ignore the evidence I have posted several times! I have just supported my argument from scripture, above!

Have I or have I not posted two passages from the OT in which God is speaking depicting the dead in Sheol moving, speaking, acting, having emotions, etc., Isaiah 14:9-22, Ezekiel 32:18-22, 30-31 Here!

Have I not supported my argument from the Jewish Encyclopedia (JE) and the Talmud, both of which cite scripture? The JE article cites 39 verses of scripture.

In the Jewish Encyclopedia the Jews use Gehenna and Sheol synonymously.

Jewish Encyclopedia - Gehenna
As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Heb. Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10

JewishEncyclopedia.com - GEHENNA​

 

[Timothew]

I have just supported my argument from scripture, above!

You haven't supported your argument, you've just repeated it.

Have I or have I not posted two passages from the OT in which God is speaking depicting the dead in Sheol moving, speaking, acting, having emotions, etc., Isaiah 14:9-22, Ezekiel 32:18-22, 30-31 Here!

You did post two passases depicting the dead moving, etc and I've shown that the prophets use metaphors to illustrate their point.
Isaiah 14:4 Taunt: ham·ma·shal
Word Origin
from mashal
Definition
a proverb, parable
NASB Word Usage
byword (3), discourse (9), parable (3), parables (1), proverb (15), proverbs (6), taunt (2), taunt-song (1).

NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation
All rights reserved Lockman.org​

Have I not supported my argument from the Jewish Encyclopedia (JE) and the Talmud, both of which cite scripture? The JE article cites 39 verses of scripture.

In the Jewish Encyclopedia the Jews use Gehenna and Sheol synonymously.

Jewish Encyclopedia - Gehenna
​

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Heb. Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10

JewishEncyclopedia.com - GEHENNA
​

You did use the JE and Talmud to support your argument, and I've shown how they also support my point.

 

[Studious One]

Parable - A story to depict a spiritual truth.

Even if the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man were a parable, it still reveals the spiritual truth that there will be torment in hell and that once one goes there, there is no escape from that torment.

It reveals the spiritual truth that the one who is in hell is conscious of his past life and of the torments of his present life.

Jesus warned of hell many times in the Gospels. He warned of the torments of hell.

To say one is not tormented in hell is to call the Lord Jesus a liar.

 

[Der Alte]

You haven't supported your argument, you've just repeated it.
You did post two passases depicting the dead moving, etc and I've shown that the prophets use metaphors to illustrate their point.
Isaiah 14:4 Taunt: ham·ma·shal
Word Origin
from mashal
Definition
a proverb, parable
[ . . . ]

Once again, did the nation of Israel become figurative when they became a taunt/parable? Did anyone or anything else become figurative when they/t became a taunt/parable? There were NO, ZERO, NONE metaphors, etc. in Ezekiel 32 which you can use as a subterfuge to dismiss it as figurative!

Both passages, Isaiah 14 and Ezek 32, are clearly identified as "Thus saith the Lord," God himself is speaking, NOT the prophet and God means what he says and says what he means. Anything God said is literal unless God states otherwise or it can be clearly shown from the context of the passage! And it will be a cold, cold day before you can prove your assumptions/presuppositions!

You did use the JE and Talmud to support your argument, and I've shown how they also support my point.

It took days and days but you are finally forced to admit that the JE and Talmud do show that the ancient Jews believed God prepared a place of eternal, unending fiery punishment for the unrighteous and they called it Gehenna and Sheol. Even the few mentions which you claim support your argument acknowledge that Gehenna/Hell was a place of punishment for somebody! So when Jesus said the fires of Gehenna and Hades, etc. his Jewish audience would have understood such a place for somebody if not themselves.

 

[Der Alte]

Parable - A story to depict a spiritual truth.

Even if the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man were a parable, it still reveals the spiritual truth that there will be torment in hell and that once one goes there, there is no escape from that torment.

It reveals the spiritual truth that the one who is in hell is conscious of his past life and of the torments of his present life.

Jesus warned of hell many times in the Gospels. He warned of the torments of hell.

To say one is not tormented in hell is to call the Lord Jesus a liar.

The Jews taught that before and during the time of Christ and the church taught it until false religions began in the late 19th century.

Irenaeus Against Heresies Book II Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning.
Ireneaeus, 120-202 AD, was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John.

1. The Lord has taught with very great fulness, that souls not only continue to exist, not by passing from body to body, but that they preserve the same form [in their separate state] as the body had to which they were adapted, and that they remember the deeds which they did in this state of existence, and from which they have now ceased,-in that narrative which is recorded respecting the rich man and that Lazarus who found repose in the bosom of Abraham. In this account He states that Dives [=Latin for rich] knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him-[Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table. [He tells us] also of the answer given by Abraham, who was acquainted not only with what respected himself, but Dives also, and who enjoined those who did not wish to come into that place of torment to believe Moses and the prophets, and to receive the preaching of Him who was to rise again from the dead. By these things, then, it is plainly declared that souls continue to exist that they do not pass from body to body, that they possess the form of a man, so that they may be recognised, and retain the memory of things in this world; moreover, that the gift of prophecy was possessed by Abraham, and that each class of souls] receives a habitation such as it has deserved, even before the judgment.

ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Clement of Alexandria [A.D. 153-193-217] The Instructor [Paedagogus] Book 1

On the Resurrection. But he figuratively designates the vulgar rabble, attached to ephemeral pleasure, flourishing for a little, loving ornament, loving praise, and being everything but truth-loving, good for nothing but to be burned with fire. “There was a certain man,” said the Lord, narrating, “very rich, who was clothed in purple and scarlet, enjoying himself splendidly every day.” This was the day. “And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at the rich man’s gate, full of sores, desiring to be filled with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table.” This is the grass. Well, the rich man was punished in Hades, being made partaker of the fire; while the other flourished again in the Father’s bosom.

Tertullian A Treatise On The Soul [A.D. 145-220.]

In hell the soul of a certain man is in torment, punished in flames, suffering excruciating thirst, and imploring from the finger of a happier soul, for his tongue, the solace of a drop of water. Do you suppose that this end of the blessed poor man and the miserable rich man is only imaginary? Then why the name of Lazarus in this narrative, if the circumstance is not in (the category of) a real occurrence? But even if it is to be regarded as imaginary, it will still be a testimony to truth and reality. For unless the soul possessed corporeality, the image of a soul could not possibly contain a finger of a bodily substance; nor would the Scripture feign a statement about the limbs of a body, if these had no existence.

The Epistles Of Cyprian (A.D. 200-258) Epistle 54 To Cornelius, Concerning Fortunatus And Felicissimus, Or Against The Heretics

A good man out of the good treasure bringeth forth good things; and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.” Whence also that rich sinner who implores help from Lazarus, then laid in Abraham’s bosom, and established in a place of comfort, while he, writhing in torments, is consumed by the heats of burning flame, suffers most punishment of all parts of his body in his mouth and his tongue, because doubtless in his mouth and his tongue he had most sinned.

Methodius Fragments On The History Of Jonah (A.D. 260-312)

But souls, being rational bodies, are arranged by the Maker and Father of all things into members which are visible to reason, having received this impression. Whence, also, in Hades, as in the case of Lazarus and the rich man, they are spoken of as having a tongue, and a finger, and the other members; not as though they had with them another invisible body, but that the souls themselves, naturally, when entirely stripped of their covering, are such according to their essence.​

 

[Timothew]

Parable - A story to depict a spiritual truth.

Even if the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man were a parable, it still reveals the spiritual truth that there will be torment in hell and that once one goes there, there is no escape from that torment.

It reveals the spiritual truth that the one who is in hell is conscious of his past life and of the torments of his present life.

Jesus warned of hell many times in the Gospels. He warned of the torments of hell.

To say one is not tormented in hell is to call the Lord Jesus a liar.

This is what you get from the Parable of Lazarus and Richard? Not anything about justice and the need to have compassion on others?

 

[Studious One]

This is what you get from the Parable of Lazarus and Richard? Not anything about justice and the need to have compassion on others?

Ever hear the old saying, 'What goes around, comes around'?

The rich man showed no compassion to Lazarus in life, God showed no compassion to the rich man in death.

The rich man did nothing to ease Lazarus' torment in life. God will do nothing to ease the rich man's torment in hell.

The rich man reaped exactly what he sowed.

 

[dwrancho144]

The very pit itself is a place of torments and of chastisement,
but is not eternal. It was made that it might be a medicine
and help to those who sin. Sacred are the stripes which are
medicine to those who have sinned. “Therefore we do not
complain of the pits (of hell)—abyssis—but rather know that
they are places of torment, and chastisement, being for the
correction (amendment of those who have sinned.”—Titus
Adv. Man. lib. i. 32.26

Universalism asserted: on the authority of reason, the Fathers, & Holy Scripture

By Thomas Allin

 

[dwrancho144]

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those
who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the
resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all
will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits,
after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end,
when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has
abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until
He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be
abolished is death. (I Cor. 15:20-26)

For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or
authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He
is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head
of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from
the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in
Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made
peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether
things on earth or things in heaven. (Col. 1:15-20)

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope
on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of
believers. (1 Tim. 4:10)

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only,
but also for those of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under
the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To
Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and
glory and dominion forever and ever." (Rev. 5:13)

But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of
the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the
grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not like
that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:15-21)

Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and
there is no other. " I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth
from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every
knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of
Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to
Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame. "In the LORD all
the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory. (Isaiah 45:22-25)

...being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:8-11.)

In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will,
according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to
an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the
summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things
upon the earth (Ephesians 1:8b-10)

For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to
all. (Romans 11:32)

For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing
of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not of
its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the
creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption
into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that
the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together
until now. (Romans 8:19-22)

He spoke another parable to them, "The kingdom of heaven is like
leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all
leavened." (Matt. 13:33)

Even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You
have given Him, He may give eternal life. (John 17:2)

 

[Der Alte]

Ever hear the old saying, 'What goes around, comes around'?

The rich man showed no compassion to Lazarus in life, God showed no compassion to the rich man in death.

The rich man did nothing to ease Lazarus' torment in life. God will do nothing to ease the rich man's torment in hell.

The rich man reaped exactly what he sowed.

Those who want to argue that Luke 16:19-31, the story of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable put forth the argument that the rich man has done nothing wrong but the law required the faithful to care for the poor and needy

Deu 15:11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Deu 15:7-8
(7) If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:
(8) But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth.​

 

[Noxot]

Good is from God and will last forever but evil will not last forever because evil is the lack of good. since evil is not held up by God, it means that it is not eternal and will not last forever. hell is just one part of the plan of God to bring us back to Him. hell is not going to be fun at all for those souls that go to that place. I can not comprehend the pain and shame that the souls there will have to face, since it would appear that they will have some sort of understanding of who they are and what they have become. I have heard that many people think that the word "aeon" means the same as the word "forever". unless I am mistaken, Aeon does not mean forever, rather, it means "a long period of time" and we know that forever is not a long period of time. the next aeon will be nice for those who are saved but it will be terrible for those that are not saved. I do believe that there will be many aeons to come.

 

[Der Alte]

Good is from God and will last forever but evil will not last forever because evil is the lack of good. since evil is not held up by God, it means that it is not eternal and will not last forever. hell is just one part of the plan of God to bring us back to Him. hell is not going to be fun at all for those souls that go to that place. I can not comprehend the pain and shame that the souls there will have to face, since it would appear that they will have some sort of understanding of who they are and what they have become. I have heard that many people think that the word "aeon" means the same as the word "forever". unless I am mistaken, Aeon does not mean forever, rather, it means "a long period of time" and we know that forever is not a long period of time. the next aeon will be nice for those who are saved but it will be terrible for those that are not saved. I do believe that there will be many aeons to come.

You are mistaken, in the earliest writings in Greek "the word 'aeon' means the same as the word 'forever.'" Here is a link to two of my posts back to back which cite nine language sources, with fourteen total references, showing that αἰώνιος/aionios and αἰών/aion mean eternal, everlasting, unending ! 1. NAS Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries, 2. Thayer’s Lexicon, 3. Vine’s Expository of Biblical Words, 3 references, 4. Louw-Nida Greek English Lexicon of the NT based on Semantic Domains, 2 references, 5. Theological Dictinary of the New Testament, 6. Abridged Greek lexicon, Liddell-Scott, 7. Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, 3 references, 8. Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker Greek English Lexicon of the NT and other Early Christian Literature, 9. Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the NT.

 

[FredVB]

The problem I have with this, is that the word "death" has to be radically redefined in order for your theory to work. In your view 'death' no longer means 'not living', it has a 'quality of life' aspect to it. No one says, "He's suffering, have a funeral and bury him because he's dead."

'Death' does not not have to be redefined by us who read. That misery awaits the unredeemed after this life is already established. I will repeat what I said before to be sure you can see the argument for what the Bible says apart from our redefining. Revelation 20 v5-6, 12-15:

The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is all the second death is, without anymore needed to add to its meaning. If eternal misery is described, as in the smoke of their torment goes up forever, then eternal consciousness inclusive of such misery is a part of that second death. Termination of consciousness is never suggested in these things referring to the second death.

 

[Noxot]

You are mistaken, in the earliest writings in Greek "the word 'aeon' means the same as the word 'forever.'" Here is a link to two of my posts back to back which cite nine language sources, with fourteen total references, showing that αἰώνιος/aionios and αἰών/aion mean eternal, everlasting, unending ! 1. NAS Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries, 2. Thayer’s Lexicon, 3. Vine’s Expository of Biblical Words, 3 references, 4. Louw-Nida Greek English Lexicon of the NT based on Semantic Domains, 2 references, 5. Theological Dictinary of the New Testament, 6. Abridged Greek lexicon, Liddell-Scott, 7. Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, 3 references, 8. Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker Greek English Lexicon of the NT and other Early Christian Literature, 9. Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the NT.

I believe that the belief of an eternal hell is a construction of the matrix of lies. something that has either a beginning or an end can not be eternal (unless it partakes of God, then it can at least be forevermore). since hell has a beginning, and since its purpose is made for those that are evil, it follows that since evil will end, that hell will also end. evil has a beginning, as God is not evil. since God hates evil, he will destroy evil and so it will not be forever. so hell would have no purpose to exist forever. so hell is limited to a beginning and an end, and that is not an eternity because eternity has no beginning or end.

so I want to point out that when the word "aeon" is used, it sometimes is used as the word "eternity" (God is without beginning or end) and it is sometimes used in a more "temporal" manner i.e. long periods of time, as your own post have said.

therefore I propose that there is a web of lies about conceptions of things and this web of lies is a matrix-like illusion made to hold the somatic christians in place and to try to pull down the spiritual christians as well as hindering those that are not christians by telling them terrible things (like how God is gonna make you suffer forever and ever in hell). but rather I say that our God is a loving God and would not make created being suffer forever and ever. because "forever and ever" for sins we did in a limited space of movements should not be punished with an infinite space of movements of hurt, sorrow, pain and suffering. but rather corrected and healed with some remedy that only God has in his plan that is above our thoughts.

 

[Timothew]

'Death' does not not have to be redefined by us who read. That misery awaits the unredeemed after this life is already established. I will repeat what I said before to be sure you can see the argument for what the Bible says apart from our redefining. Revelation 20 v5-6, 12-15:

The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is all the second death is, without anymore needed to add to its meaning. If eternal misery is described, as in the smoke of their torment goes up forever, then eternal consciousness inclusive of such misery is a part of that second death. Termination of consciousness is never suggested in these things referring to the second death.

 

[FredVB]

I believe that the belief of an eternal hell is a construction of the matrix of lies. something that has either a beginning or an end can not be eternal. I say that our God is a loving God and would not make created being suffer forever and ever. because "forever and ever" for sins we did in a limited space of movements should not be punished with an infinite space of movements of hurt, sorrow, pain and suffering. but rather corrected and healed with some remedy that only God has in his plan that is above our thoughts.

If something that has either a beginning or an end cannot be eternal, how would you say there can be eternal life? There is only one way there is redemption from sin, that is through Christ in what he has done, and he said "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it".

 

[Noxot]

If something that has either a beginning or an end cannot be eternal, how would you say there can be eternal life? There is only one way there is redemption from sin, that is through Christ in what he has done, and he said "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it".

because that "eternal" that i was talking about is God and we can partake of God, and I called that partaking "forevermore" which is not exactly like the "eternal" that God is.

and yes since Christ is God, I agree that he is the only way. it is not only what Christ ~has~ done, it is what Christ is ~doing~ and ~is~ as well. it is all about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. how God is always God. we can not even enter with out Christ who also commands us to enter because it is a God approved thing. =)

 

[Studious One]

Good is from God and will last forever but evil will not last forever because evil is the lack of good. since evil is not held up by God, it means that it is not eternal and will not last forever. hell is just one part of the plan of God to bring us back to Him. hell is not going to be fun at all for those souls that go to that place. I can not comprehend the pain and shame that the souls there will have to face, since it would appear that they will have some sort of understanding of who they are and what they have become. I have heard that many people think that the word "aeon" means the same as the word "forever". unless I am mistaken, Aeon does not mean forever, rather, it means "a long period of time" and we know that forever is not a long period of time. the next aeon will be nice for those who are saved but it will be terrible for those that are not saved. I do believe that there will be many aeons to come.

The only thing that will put man on the path to God is for man to place his trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Man is not going to make it back to God by going to hell.