Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[LutheranMafia]

I thought that you wanted to take the word of God literally and at face value. Eternal death means death which is eternal. Death is the absence of life. Death doe not not mean eternal life in torment, no matter which way you turn your hermeneutics. Certainly God has the power to kill both the soul and body. This does not mean that He keeps them alive in hell to torment them.

This is all base on assuming that death is the end of consciousness, which is clearly not the case. You take literal to mean that death is unconscious, but that is not what literal means here. It all comes down to your defintion of death, and you have a deep faith that death means annihilation, but that is total BS. Does it lift your spirit up to believe that death is annihilation? No, clearly it does not. That is why your family thinks you are a heretic, because you put your faith in things that pull down faith, not build them up. Your beliefs do absolutely nothing to build up faith. That is the soure of your problem. You do not think about what builds up faith. You only think about being right in an intellectual debate, which is actually a source of perdition. If you had something in your faith that put strength into your beliefs, that lifted up the spirit, then you would not have so much trouble in your personal life.

 

[Timothew]

but this is not part of Romans 6:23, you too employ systematic theology. I am glad you are starting to turn around.

But yes, eternal torment fits the majority of scripture in a most systematic way.

How do you explain these verses without a contradiction to your view?

Cast to outer darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth
Matt. 8:12, "but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Those cast into the fire suffer consciously
Matt. 13:41-42, "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” See also Matt. 13:50.

Cast into a tormenting fire
Rev. 14:9-11, "And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."” See also, Rev. 21:8.

Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Hell is a place of eternal fire and punishment

Unquenchable Fire
Matt. 3:12 "And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Fiery Hell
Matt. 5:22, "whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." See also, Matt. 5:29,30.

Fiery Hell
Matt. 18:8-9, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell."

Eternal Fire
Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

Eternal Punishment
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering - 'to punish, punishment.'"5

Eternal Fire
Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Lake of Fire
Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Luke 16:19-31, Lazarus and the Rich Man

In Luke 16:19-31 is the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Basically, Lazarus is a poor man who suffers during life. The rich man is, of course, rich. They both die. The rich man goes to Hades. Lazarus goes to Abraham's bosom, another term for paradise. In Hades, the rich man lifts up his eyes and sees Lazarus far off. He cries out to Abraham and asks for mercy because he is in agony in flame. Abraham says no. Then the rich man asks if someone from the dead were to rise and go tell his brothers not to come to this terrible place. Abraham teaches him that that will not be done either.

Some say that this is a parable. However, if it is, it is unique because no other parable actually names a person. It isn't a story. It is history. It really happened. But many who believe in no consciousness after death will say it is still a parable. The question is then, if it is a parable what is it teaching? If hell fire is false and if self-awareness after death is also false, then Jesus is using false doctrines to teach a truth. Parables illustrate truth. If it is a parable, what does the consciousness after death symbolize? Also, what does the agony in flame symbolize? Are they not real? Of course they are.
Conclusion

Hell is a real place. It is not mere unconsciousness. It is not temporal. It is eternal torment. Perhaps that is why Jesus spoke more of hell than heaven and spent so much time warning people not to go there. After all, if people just stopped existing, why warn them? If it was temporal, they'd get out in a while. But if it were eternal and conscious, then the warning is strong.

Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell," (Matt. 5:29-30).

from CARM.org

CARM believes destruction doesn't mean destruction but means not destroyed but kept undestroyed and tormented instead.
Since they are that confused, why should I believe anything you cut and paste from CARM? You know yourself that just using a name (Lazarus) is no guarantee that the parable is not a parable. I might as well say that since the rich man was not named, the parable is not history.

Everything Jesus taught the crowd was a parable. If parables are lies, did Jesus continually lie to the crowds?

Also your post is full of falsehoods. Jesus definitely did NOT speak more of hell than heaven. Why do you repeat this falsehood without checking for yourself? Jesus spoke about 10 times more about heaven than hell, eternal life even more than that, and when he did speak of hell, it was in a parable. that wasn't even hell anyway, it was Hades. The rest of the time it wasn't hell either, but Gehenna which represents the death that occurred in the valley of Gehenna.

 

[Timothew]

This is all base on assuming that death is the end of consciousness, which is clearly not the case. You take literal to mean that death is unconscious, but that is not what literal means here. It all comes down to your defintion of death, and you have a deep faith that death means annihilation, but that is total BS. Does it lift your spirit up to believe that death is annihilation? No, clearly it does not. That is why your family thinks you are a heretic, because you put your faith in things that pull down faith, not build them up. Your beliefs do absolutely nothing to build up faith. That is the soure of your problem. You do not think about what builds up faith. You only think about being right in an intellectual debate, which is actually a source of perdition. If you had something in your faith that put strength into your beliefs, that lifted up the spirit, then you would not have so much trouble in your personal life.

Are you saying that "clearly the dead are conscious"? I need to see proof of this before I just blindly accept it.

Clearly the dead are not conscious. The bible even confirms this, common sense confirms this.

 

[LutheranMafia]

I pray those who don't believe that the wages of sin is death don't end up dying in their sins because they don't fear God's wrath.

That makes absolutely no sense, Tim. Annihilation is getting off Scott-free. This contradicts your own argument. Eternal torment is something that you consider to be cruel, so how can avoiding eternal torment be a means of avoiding fear of God's wrath. You are making absolutely no sense here what-so-ever, Timothew.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Clearly the dead are not conscious. The bible even confirms this, common sense confirms this.

The Bible is equivocal about a complex issue, in some respects yes, ordinary consciousness ceases, but that is not the sum toto of consciousness. And as far as common sense goes, you are speaking of the common sense of an atheist.

And of course none of this says anything about uplifting values. What in your belief that death, even ordinary death, is annihilation, is uplifting? Absolutely nothing. It is a belief that tears down faith, not building it up.

 

[createdtoworship]

This is all base on assuming that death is the end of consciousness, which is clearly not the case. You take literal to mean that death is unconscious, but that is not what literal means here. It all comes down to your defintion of death, and you have a deep faith that death means annihilation, but that is total BS. Does it lift your spirit up to believe that death is annihilation? No, clearly it does not. That is why your family thinks you are a heretic, because you put your faith in things that pull down faith, not build them up. Your beliefs do absolutely nothing to build up faith. That is the soure of your problem. You do not think about what builds up faith. You only think about being right in an intellectual debate, which is actually a source of perdition. If you had something in your faith that put strength into your beliefs, that lifted up the spirit, then you would not have so much trouble in your personal life.

timothew's family seems to have the wise genes.

 

[createdtoworship]

CARM believes destruction doesn't mean destruction but means not destroyed but kept undestroyed and tormented instead.
Since they are that confused, why should I believe anything you cut and paste from CARM? You know yourself that just using a name (Lazarus) is no guarantee that the parable is not a parable. I might as well say that since the rich man was not named, the parable is not history.

Everything Jesus taught the crowd was a parable. If parables are lies, did Jesus continually lie to the crowds?

Also your post is full of falsehoods. Jesus definitely did NOT speak more of hell than heaven. Why do you repeat this falsehood without checking for yourself? Jesus spoke about 10 times more about heaven than hell, eternal life even more than that, and when he did speak of hell, it was in a parable. that wasn't even hell anyway, it was Hades. The rest of the time it wasn't hell either, but Gehenna which represents the death that occurred in the valley of Gehenna.

after your strawman attack on CARM, I noticed that 95% of their post was verses. Do you disagree with the Bible timothew? IF the post is "full of falsehoods" then you must not approve of God's Holy Word because it was simply a collection of verses. Secondly, you are correct in your assessment of the quote "Jesus spoke more of Hell than of Heaven." But the numbers are less than you think, He spoke of Heaven 4742 times, and of Hell 1308 times. So you are wrong saying it was 10 times more, when it is only about 4 times more. You have exaggerated with God's Holy Word!

 

[Sophrosyne]

I pray those who don't believe that the wages of sin is death don't end up dying in their sins because they don't fear God's wrath.

So..... your are no longer ignoring me eh?

 

[Sophrosyne]

That makes absolutely no sense, Tim. Annihilation is getting off Scott-free. This contradicts your own argument. Eternal torment is something that you consider to be cruel, so how can avoiding eternal torment be a means of avoiding fear of God's wrath. You are making absolutely no sense here what-so-ever, Timothew.

I call it mercy killing like euthanizing a sick animal or shooting a lame horse in the head. I see a disconnect between Justice and Love here. I have generally noticed that "emotional" Christians seem to almost tear out all the pages of the bible where God exacts his vengeance and pours out his wrath and warns us that he is capable of horrific deeds against those who do evil. How do you contrast a God that drowns almost everyone in the world, allows and even encourages public stonings to death of people that don't follow certain rituals properly. The fact God had people stoned to death for blasphemy to me suggests that he doesn't "Love" people such that he allows them to get away with evil treating them instead like a sick animal that doesn't truly know right from wrong.

 

[WillieH]

remember the poster of these articles has created quite a history for himself:


1) satan does not exist (as a literal being)
2) the proton, neutron and electron do not exist (post 670)
3) the speed of light does not exist (thinks it's not proven to be 186,282 mps) post 670
4) we are all in the lake of fire burning right now (the earth) (post 724)
5) the organized church is sinful (every church unworthy of attendance) post 742, 745
6) the "body" of man is literally the "earth" (post 599)
7) the "heart" of man is literally "heaven" (post 599)
8) there is no end of the world (post 599)
9) God IS the the actual universe (which is pantheism) (instead of beyond the universe)Post 356
10) All religions are false including Christianity (post 271)
11) the beast and the devil are symbolic (post 215)
12) All orthodoxy is blasphemy (post 186)
13) man is God (of the offspring and species of God) (post 172, 161)
14) Jesus is not God however (post 183)
15) Mankind has always existed in heaven (post 172, 163)
16) there are no fallen angels, only Holy angels (post 751)
17) pluto never existed (post 759)
18) because God created farting, Jesus would condone fart talk on this christian forum (post 698)
19) belief in the existence of pluto is on par with believing in "Mickey Mouse" (post 759)
Just in case you were wondering about pluto: here is a picture from nasa

20) Belief in the existence of pluto is on par with belief in UFO's (post 798)
21) adam and eve were serpents (post 836)
22) demon possession is not real (post 836)
23) people who are angry and violent are demon possessed (post 836)

...more from a guy that has no real knowledge of anything in the Scriptures... And whose CHIEF agenda is to BEAR FALSE WITNESS.

See his FALSE WITNESS, for yourself! By all means GO to the posts he lists... you will find that what HE SAYS ABOVE, ...that "I SAID", ...is NOT true... ...by PURPOSELY DISTORTING what I have actually SAID...


As well:

1. REMEMBER the LISTER [GRADYLL] of this list, does not know how to respond to questions or points, and is completely UNAWARE of the rules of debate and/or discussion, as well as he does not have any knowledge of his own, for he admits to COPYING his beliefs... and,

2. REMEMBER most of this is list is COMPLETELY exaggerated, and cannot be QUOTED from my words... and,

3. REMEMBER, ...As far as the TRUE things I have stated on the forum and IN THIS THREAD (which this person has BORN FALSE WITNESS about to include THIS LIST -- And which is WHY he did not QUOTE my words), ALL can PROVEN with SCRIPTURE...

READ for yourself what I have to say about "HELL", instead of taking the recommendations of one IGNORANT...

PEACE... ...unto those who SEEK the TRUTH, not to those who spend their time, LYING about and DISTORTING the words of others...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

after your strawman attack on CARM, I noticed that 95% of their post was verses. Do you disagree with the Bible timothew? IF the post is "full of falsehoods" then you must not approve of God's Holy Word because it was simply a collection of verses. Secondly, you are correct in your assessment of the quote "Jesus spoke more of Hell than of Heaven." But the numbers are less than you think, He spoke of Heaven 4742 times, and of Hell 1308 times. So you are wrong saying it was 10 times more, when it is only about 4 times more. You have exaggerated with God's Holy Word!

Hell 1308 times? I challenge ANYONE to come up with this number in the WORD of GOD... Nowhere NEAR this number is true.

Though this will be covered in my series of posts, here is a "HEADSUP" preview of the FALSEHOODS promoted by gradyll:

Are ANY of you going to listen to the FOOLISHNESS of this man? Look in ANY CONCORDANCE, and you will SEE that JESUS mentioned only 2 WORDS which are translated "HELL" in the WORD (HADES and GEHENNA)... on a total of only 8 occasions in the entire course of His (approximately) 3.5 YEARS of ministry. (1277 days) ...That is ONCE every 160 DAYS...

Not much attention paid to this...

That HERM is completely unstudied causes him to (foolishly) PARROT THE falsehoods OF other men, ...on a regular basis...

In fact, most of the MODERN translations are ELIMINATING this TERM (HELL) from mention at all. I have already listed several that do not even mention "HELL" at all (and will cover that later by providing a list which YOU can check for YOURSELF!).

HERE is a quick breakdown... Get out you Bible and Concordance and SEE for YOURSELF:

JESUS spoke the word GEHENNA:

1. -- in the SERMON on the mount -- Matt 5:22/ 29, 30 -- on ONE OCCASION/day -- (3 mentions)


2. -- At Capernaum -- Mark 9:43, 45, 47 -- on ONE OCCASION/day -- (3 mentions)


3. -- Warning the Apostles of whom to FEAR -- Matt 10:28 -- Luke 12:5 -- are TWO accounts of the SAME Occasion -- on ONE OCCASION/dat (1 mention)


4. -- Upbraiding the Pharisees -- Matt 23:15 & 23:37 -- on ONE OCCASION/day (2 mentions)


5. -- Warning against corrupting innocents -- Matt 18:9 -- ONE OCCASION (1 mention)


That's IT folks... 10 total mentions ON 5 total OCCASIONS/DAYS ...of GEHENNA by JESUS



JESUS spoke the word HADES:


1. -- Capernaum exalted to Heaven -- Matt 11:23 -- Luke 10:15 -- ONE OCCASION/day (1 mention)


2. -- The Lord says He will "build His church" -- Matt 16:18 -- ONE OCCASION/day (1 mention)


3. -- Parable of the rich man & lazerus -- Luke 16:23 -- ONE OCCASION/day (1 mention)


That's it folks... 3 total mentions of HADES on 3 total OCCASIONS/DAYS



There you have it folks! ---- 10 mentions of GEHENNA on 5 OCCASIONS, and 3 total mentions of HADES on 3 total OCCASIONS/DAYS --- A TOTAL of 13 uses of these words (when totaled together)TOGETHER in 3.5 years of ministry.



Get a STRONGS CONCORDANCE and SEE for YOURSELF!!!



Hey, gradyll ONLY EXAGGERATED the TOTAL by ---> 1297 times!

Only proving that not only is he READING impaired, but he isn't much good at MATH either...


SECOND --- REMEMBER... MATT SLICK, who is the ADMINISTER of CARM, ...will NOT debate others that OPPOSE him... (much like gradyll)

CARM stands not for TRUTH... for they are NOT even WILLING to discuss anything other than ORTHODOX beliefs...


1308 mentions of HELL? ...Please!

PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

CARM believes destruction doesn't mean destruction but means not destroyed but kept undestroyed and tormented instead.
Since they are that confused, why should I believe anything you cut and paste from CARM? You know yourself that just using a name (Lazarus) is no guarantee that the parable is not a parable. I might as well say that since the rich man was not named, the parable is not history.

PEACE... brother T!


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

after your strawman attack on CARM, I noticed that 95% of their post was verses. Do you disagree with the Bible timothew? IF the post is "full of falsehoods" then you must not approve of God's Holy Word because it was simply a collection of verses. Secondly, you are correct in your assessment of the quote "Jesus spoke more of Hell than of Heaven." But the numbers are less than you think, He spoke of Heaven 4742 times, and of Hell 1308 times. So you are wrong saying it was 10 times more, when it is only about 4 times more. You have exaggerated with God's Holy Word!

Gradyll should look up the term "strawman"... HE brought up CARM by quoting them, thereby making CARM part of the conversation...

If anyone's comments about CARM are guilty of being "strawman"... it is the words of GRADYLL... for CARM was not part of the conversation until HE brought them into it.

PEACE be unto those who BOTHER to SEEK TRUTH...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Great! Where will you be posting this?

I'll post it in this forum... And it will probably begin early next week. (I'll send you a PM... )

PEACE...


...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

...more from a guy that has no real knowledge of anything in the Scriptures... And whose CHIEF agenda is to BEAR FALSE WITNESS.

See his FALSE WITNESS, for yourself! By all means GO to the posts he lists... you will find that what HE SAYS ABOVE, ...that "I SAID", ...is NOT true... ...by PURPOSELY DISTORTING what I have actually SAID...


As well:

1. REMEMBER the LISTER [GRADYLL] of this list, does not know how to respond to questions or points, and is completely UNAWARE of the rules of debate and/or discussion, as well as he does not have any knowledge of his own, for he admits to COPYING his beliefs... and,

2. REMEMBER most of this is list is COMPLETELY exaggerated, and cannot be QUOTED from my words... and,

3. REMEMBER, ...As far as the TRUE things I have stated on the forum and IN THIS THREAD (which this person has BORN FALSE WITNESS about to include THIS LIST -- And which is WHY he did not QUOTE my words), ALL can PROVEN with SCRIPTURE...

READ for yourself what I have to say about "HELL", instead of taking the recommendations of one IGNORANT...

PEACE... ...unto those who SEEK the TRUTH, not to those who spend their time, LYING about and DISTORTING the words of others...


...willieH

just read the post numbers next to the listings and you will see for yourself that this list is not exaggerated.

 

[createdtoworship]

Gradyll should look up the term "strawman"... HE brought up CARM by quoting them, thereby making CARM part of the conversation...

If anyone's comments about CARM are guilty of being "strawman"... it is the words of GRADYLL... for CARM was not part of the conversation until HE brought them into it.

PEACE be unto those who BOTHER to SEEK TRUTH...


...willieH

show me one quote from my posts that is a strawman, if you can.

 

[createdtoworship]

Hell 1308 times? I challenge ANYONE to come up with this number in the WORD of GOD... Nowhere NEAR this number is true.

Though this will be covered in my series of posts, here is a "HEADSUP" preview of the FALSEHOODS promoted by gradyll:

Are ANY of you going to listen to the FOOLISHNESS of this man? Look in ANY CONCORDANCE, and you will SEE that JESUS mentioned only 2 WORDS which are translated "HELL" in the WORD (HADES and GEHENNA)... on a total of only 8 occasions in the entire course of His (approximately) 3.5 YEARS of ministry. (1277 days) ...That is ONCE every 160 DAYS...

Not much attention paid to this...

That HERM is completely unstudied causes him to (foolishly) PARROT THE falsehoods OF other men, ...on a regular basis...

In fact, most of the MODERN translations are ELIMINATING this TERM (HELL) from mention at all. I have already listed several that do not even mention "HELL" at all (and will cover that later by providing a list which YOU can check for YOURSELF!).

HERE is a quick breakdown... Get out you Bible and Concordance and SEE for YOURSELF:

JESUS spoke the word GEHENNA:

1. -- in the SERMON on the mount -- Matt 5:22/ 29, 30 -- on ONE OCCASION/day -- (3 mentions)


2. -- At Capernaum -- Mark 9:43, 45, 47 -- on ONE OCCASION/day -- (3 mentions)


3. -- Warning the Apostles of whom to FEAR -- Matt 10:28 -- Luke 12:5 -- are TWO accounts of the SAME Occasion -- on ONE OCCASION/dat (1 mention)


4. -- Upbraiding the Pharisees -- Matt 23:15 & 23:37 -- on ONE OCCASION/day (2 mentions)


5. -- Warning against corrupting innocents -- Matt 18:9 -- ONE OCCASION (1 mention)


That's IT folks... 10 total mentions ON 5 total OCCASIONS/DAYS ...of GEHENNA by JESUS



JESUS spoke the word HADES:


1. -- Capernaum exalted to Heaven -- Matt 11:23 -- Luke 10:15 -- ONE OCCASION/day (1 mention)


2. -- The Lord says He will "build His church" -- Matt 16:18 -- ONE OCCASION/day (1 mention)


3. -- Parable of the rich man & lazerus -- Luke 16:23 -- ONE OCCASION/day (1 mention)


That's it folks... 3 total mentions of HADES on 3 total OCCASIONS/DAYS



There you have it folks! ---- 10 mentions of GEHENNA on 5 OCCASIONS, and 3 total mentions of HADES on 3 total OCCASIONS/DAYS --- A TOTAL of 13 uses of these words (when totaled together)TOGETHER in 3.5 years of ministry.



Get a STRONGS CONCORDANCE and SEE for YOURSELF!!!



Hey, gradyll ONLY EXAGGERATED the TOTAL by ---> 1297 times!

Only proving that not only is he READING impaired, but he isn't much good at MATH either...


SECOND --- REMEMBER... MATT SLICK, who is the ADMINISTER of CARM, ...will NOT debate others that OPPOSE him... (much like gradyll)

CARM stands not for TRUTH... for they are NOT even WILLING to discuss anything other than ORTHODOX beliefs...


1308 mentions of HELL? ...Please!

PEACE...


...willieH

Hell is in the KJV 286 times
not to mention the hundreds of times fire and hades are a reference to Hell as well.


so add it up if you can, or check your concordance.

I will love to debate every single post you offer on Hell, it's no problem at all, I do not feel threatened at all by any of your posts.

and you said Matt slick will not debate, thats funny.

NEITHER DID JESUS!

 

[WillieH]

As usual you have nothing but taunts, no words of encouragement or uplifting statements.

As ususal you have NO SENSE of HUMOR...

What is UPLIFTING ...is the TRUTH... You should try it sometime bro... maybe that neck will loosen up a bit!

And you end every post with this emoitcon of apparent call to brotherly love when in fact your posts are entirely divisive.

Are you the spokesman for everyone now, LM? The TRUTH certainly DIVIDES itself from FALSE WITNESS...

If that is what you are referring to, well, its the nature of the progression... as JESUS CLEARLY said (and you have yet to hear)...

Matt 10:34-35 -- THINK NOT, that I am not COME TO send PEACE on earth, I came not to send PEACE, but a SWORD... I am come to set a man at VARIANCE against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law agasinst her mother in law... and a mans FOES shall be THEY of their own HOUSEHOLD! (christianity)

I don't agree with Grady very often, but I notice that I *never* agree with anything you have to say.

...SEE how you are? (not really!)

See there? You OPENLY admit that YOU are DISAGREEABLE -- SELDOM with "gradyll" and... NEVER with me...

So do you conclude that it is MY shortcoming to not "agree" with you? Or is it YOURS?

I didn't come here to "agree" with you or gradyll! I came here on behalf of TRUTH... If you do not agree with my viewpoints... then what else is new with Christians?

The METHODIST CHRISTIANS don't "agree" with the BAPTIST CHRISTIANS, ...and the BAPTISTS dont "agree" with the CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS, ...and the CATHOLICS dont agree with the ASSEMBLY of GOD CHRISTIANS... (and How 'bout them JW's and MORMONS, LM?) ...and ON, and ON, and ON...

What's NEW, LM? ...not much. That you and I disagree is MORE COMMON than that we might AGREE...

If you truly are in pursuit of the TRUTH, then SOMEHOW you must therefore, agree with CORRECTION? And wouldn't it be just the GREATEST IRONY, ...if that "CORRECTION" were given by God, to come via my voice... you'd be TOTALLY missing the boat, eh LM? Think about it.

At least this post didn't end with a totally incongruous hug emoticon, given that WillieH never gives anything even remotely like a verbal hug.

...Please... Hey... You GET ...what you GIVE, bro...

In WHAT WAY, have YOU ...EVER... given ME... said "VERBAL HUG" there Mr. "LutheranMafia"? ...it has been a bit UNDERWHELMING to this point!


Want a bro? Hereyago:

I FIRMLY believe that - YOU are a SON of the MOST HIGH!

There... now shall I expect that you shall give me the SAME degree of HUG? ...somehow, I don't think it to be in my best interests to HOLD MY BREATH waiting for it from you? ...most are centered upon themsSELVES... so you will TAKE... but GIVE? I'm thinkin', ...Nah! (prove me wrong!)


Now that you have recieved a "HUG" from me... what pray tell, shall "your VERBAL HUG" be to me... ...a big smoochie? Or another VERBAL, "kick in the teeth"?

...'SUP to U! Mr. HUG...



PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

show me one quote from my posts that is a strawman, if you can.

This is WAY too EASY!

I said in conversation in POST #732 (of this thread)... that -- "satan did not exist as a sentient being, physical or spiritual"

GRADYLL indeed MISREPRESENTED what I said, by EDITING it to SAY... that I SAID: "satan does not exist, huh" In POST #735 (of this thread).

This is a DIRECT example of the use of the STRAWMAN FALLACY.

Here are the posts if anyone wishes to INVESTIGATE:


I said THIS:

"satan" shall not be "punished"... for "satan" does not exist as a sentient being, physical or spiritual...

To which gradyll FALSELY responded by SAYING THIS:

satan does not exist huh? Thats another one to add to your list....

I clearly stated: "for "satan" does not exist as a sentient being, physical or spiritual"


gradyll clearly MISREPRESENTED what I had said, by SAYING: "satan does not exist huh? "


CLEARLY removing/editing THE following WORDS and thereby MISREPRESENTING what indeed I DID SAY --- "...as a sentient being, physical or spiritual"

There are MANY other examples of gradyll's EDITING and EXAGGERATING...

Almost ALL of gradylls posts contain these STRAWMAN fallacies...

He LIES and EXAGGERATES and MISREPRESENTS just about everything in his replies, NEVER coming to the POINT or ADDRESSING the point... which indeed is the definition of the STRAWMAN term (link below)... deferring to other things, in an attempt to DISTRACT from addressing the POINT or question which was asked of him...

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Hell is in the KJV 286 times
not to mention the hundreds of times fire and hades are a reference to Hell as well.

This guy must've gotten his theology off the subway walls... certainly NOT from the BIBLE...


Now its "286 times?" ...the terms SHEOL, HADES, GEHENNA, and TARTARUS are NEVER translated "FIRE"... NOT ONCE!

The OT (Hebrew) word for FIRE is -- ESH #H784 -- and,

The NT (Greek) word for FIRE is -- PUR #G4442 --

Neither of these terms are EVER used in reference to HELL ...let alone... "hundreds of times".

Does gradyll ever tire of LYING? He now says that HELL is in the KJV 286 times, which is also untrue... FIRST he says its 1308 times, ...now he says its 286 times...

Which is it? Well a LIAR cant ever remember which LIE he's told, so, to help him out, ...I'll tell you ----> NEITHER!



HERE is the TRUTH:

The HEBREW word SHEOL, and the GREEK words TARTARUS, GEHENNA and HADES are translated in the KJV as follows:

SHEOL is translated 31 times as GRAVE, and 31 times as HELL... and,

HADES is translated "HELL" -- 10 times... (31+10=41) and,

GEHENNA is translated "HELL" -- 11 times... (31+10+11=52) and,

TARTARUS is translated "HELL" -- 1 time... (31+10+11+1=53)

THAT'S IT!




A total of 53 times does ANY word find itself translated into the English word "HELL" in the KJV...


GRADYLL still must come up with 253 more, to fulfill his IMAGINARY belief... ...(maybe they're still in the subway).

Then maybe explain all of this...

After SAYING (as quoted below in his own words) that JESUS "spoke of Heaven 4642 times, and of HELL 1308 times"

His UNTRUTHFUL comments ARE what they ARE:




Originally Posted by gradyll

after your strawman attack on CARM, I noticed that 95% of their post was verses. Do you disagree with the Bible timothew? IF the post is "full of falsehoods" then you must not approve of God's Holy Word because it was simply a collection of verses. Secondly, you are correct in your assessment of the quote "Jesus spoke more of Hell than of Heaven." But the numbers are less than you think, He spoke of Heaven 4742 times, and of Hell 1308 times. So you are wrong saying it was 10 times more, when it is only about 4 times more. You have exaggerated with God's Holy Word!
​

The guy is just completely decieved, and it appears there is no hope to pull him out of that mud of deception...

Please do not fall for what HE SAYS... as I have clearly ILLUSTRATED that he alters words spoken to him... Pray, and then ...LOOK for YOURSELF!

COUNT them in your own CONCORDANCE... there are only 53 words which are MISTRANSLATED to the English word, HELL, in the KJV.

In TRUTH, ...JESUS spoke ARAMAIC, and never once used the word "HELL"...

The TRANLATORS of the Scriptures have INVENTED this DECEPTION, and HORRIBLY propose it to YOU.



PEACE...


...willieH