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Let's Talk About Hell (4)

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createdtoworship

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willieH: Hi gradyll... :wave:



That is the best you can do? Mmmkay... disagreement so noted.




FIRST --- Where in the WORD does it SAY that you or anyone else, shall "get to heaven"? :confused:


SECOND --- There are NO WORKS which are done by man, which can SAVE him -- Eph 2:8-9 -- therefore, there are ... NO REQUIREMENTS... which ANY MAN FULFILLS, that ENABLE SALVATION to be his/hers.

EVERY FACET of SALVATION... is solely the WORK of GOD -- Eph 1:11 -- and His CHRIST --- PERIOD!



THIRD --- Where did I SAY that I did not "like science"? ^_^ And btw, when will you cease trying to put words in my mouth which ...I... did not express?

I happen to appreaciate science VERY MUCH... as I had CANCER surgery 3 years ago, and currently, am being further treated FOR it, via the PROVEN abilities of "science"...

What I am against (if anything), is "science" making claims that are UNPROVEN SPECULATIONS, ...and then proceed to deal them out to the world under the guise that they are FACTUAL.


Peace... :groupray:


...willieH :hug:

No actually the Bible says we need to repent like a hundred times in the scriptures (to get to heaven). God won't repent for you (I know that much)
 
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WillieH

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The judgement of this world is shown to be the wrath when they hung Jesus on a tree and cast him out of this world and has nothing to do with the present, except for those who teach wrongfully about a scripture. Those who teach about a scripture amiss, ...are innumerable... why not tell us something new?

The Judgement will come when Christ returns to earth.
Psa 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. --READ: PSALM 90:9 -- Why not try something new bro?

6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries. this says NOTHING about the END of the WORLD.

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. HE IS (not "will be") a consuming fire -- Heb 12:29


16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
NOW... is He pleading with ALL FLESH -- THIS realm IS the Lake of FIRE --- ALL are SLAIN -- Rom 3:23 -- 6:23

Knowing you and I are in opposition to one another, you continue to persist in quoting my words. I have asked you kindly to abstain from communicating with me, but you choose to ignore that request.

Which will only end the way previous interactions between us ended... some people don't learn... you appear to be one of them.

All this post amounts to is, ...is your continuing. misled speculation...

and hey, ...you are more than welcome to it.

peace... :groupray:

...willieH :hug:
 
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WillieH

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No actually the Bible says we need to repent like a hundred times in the scriptures (to get to heaven). God won't repent for you (I know that much)

If you really, "know so much" you will also KNOW that GOD is NO RESPECTER of PERSONS -- Acts 10:34 -- Prov 28:21 -- and that it is the GOODNESS of GOD which LEADS a man to REPENT -- Rom 4:2 ^_^

MAN of himself, isn't concerned with REPENTENCE... He must be DRAGGED unto it -- John 6:44 ;)

Peace... :groupray:


...willieH :hug:
 
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createdtoworship

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If you really, "know so much" you will also KNOW that GOD is NO RESPECTER of PERSONS -- Acts 10:34 -- Prov 28:21 -- and that it is the GOODNESS of GOD which LEADS a man to REPENT -- Rom 4:2 ^_^

MAN of himself, isn't concerned with REPENTENCE... He must be DRAGGED unto it -- John 6:44 ;)

Peace... :groupray:


...willieH :hug:

Doesn't sound like God's doing the repenting here does it?

Luke 13:3-5
3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
 
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he-man

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Originally Posted by he-man
The judgement of this world is shown to be the wrath when they hung Jesus on a tree and cast him out of this world and has nothing to do with the present, except for those who teach wrongfully about a scripture.

The Judgement will come when Christ returns to earth.
Psa 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries. [in the day of his wrath]

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [in the day of his wrath]

Heb 12:29 και γαρ ο θεος ημων πυρ καταναλισκον

16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. [in the day of his wrath]
Knowing you and I are in opposition to one another, you continue to persist in quoting my words. Which will only end the way previous interactions between us ended... some people dont learn... you are one of them....willieH
Watch it buddy, personal attacks will get you booted off the Forum.

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, moron, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 
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Timothew

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Originally Posted by he-man

Heb 12:29και γαρ ο θεος ημων πυρ καταναλισκον


16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. [in the day of his wrath]
Why did you leave Hebrews 12:29 in greek? It really makes the point.
For our God is a consuming fire.
 
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LutheranMafia

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To be honest I have heard a scripture about being absent from the body is to be present to the Lord.
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8
Excellent point! What does it mean to be present with the Lord, other than being in Heaven?
 
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LutheranMafia

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John 12:31 -- "NOW, ...IS ...the JUDGMENT of THIS WORLD... NOW shall the prince of THIS WORLD be cast out".
A disturbing quote that I have never seen before. So how was the world judged 2000 years ago? Satan still seems as strong as ever to me. He-man seems to have the best answer to this, though I don't find it entirely satisfying, for example it doesn't explain how Satan was cast out, assuming that Satan is what is meant by "prince of this world". Satan still seems as strong as ever to me.
 
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WillieH

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Doesn't sound like God's doing the repenting here does it?

Luke 13:3-5
3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

No man REPENTS of himself (as you have already been shown), ...for "repenting", means an acknowledgement (change) of the HEART that JESUS CHRIST is LORD -- John 6:44 -- Matt 11:27 -- 1 Cor 12:3)... That you are unwilling to observe what IS WRITTEN concerning REPENTENCE, is to your own undoing.

I have no aspiration whatsoever to change you... so,

Take your self-righteous (= "SELF" [because you of your own doing claim to do as a SINNER] a "RIGHTEOUS" act) and UNASSISTED "repentence with which (you percieve) have GAINED you SALVATION via YOUR DOING (repenting), before the Creator, ...and see whatcha get. ;)


Peace... :groupray:


...willieH :hug:
 
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WillieH

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A disturbing quote that I have never seen before. So how was the world judged 2000 years ago? Satan still seems as strong as ever to me. He-man seems to have the best answer to this, though I don't find it entirely satisfying, for example it doesn't explain how Satan was cast out, assuming that Satan is what is meant by "prince of this world". Satan still seems as strong as ever to me.

^_^ ...now IS now BRO... I did not say that the WORLD "was" JUDGED 2000 years ago, YOU did. I quoted the WORD and believe what IT SAYS -- John 12:31 --"NOW is the JUDGMENT of this WORLD" ;)

FIRST --- What time do you KNOW of, ...that is MANIFEST in, ...OTHER than ...NOW ...LM? :confused:


SECOND -- Your "(orthodox) [mis]understanding" of what "satan" is... happens to be your biggest problem. :sorry:


THIRD -- the WORD does not say "the prince of this world" -- WAS -- cast out, it SAYS -- "NOW ...IS... the prince of this world cast out."

Wherever "satan" ...IS in NOW... then "satan" IS cast out.

Again, until you come to KNOW what "satan" IS... then you shall not have understanding of any verse which contains the word.

We are (NOW) IN the DAY of YHVH -- Gen 2:4 -- (but you will likely not understand this)


PEACE... :groupray:

...willieH :hug:
 
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createdtoworship

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No man REPENTS of himself (as you have already been shown), ...for "repenting", means an acknowledgement (change) of the HEART that JESUS CHRIST is LORD -- John 6:44 -- Matt 11:27 -- 1 Cor 12:3)... That you are unwilling to observe what IS WRITTEN concerning REPENTENCE, is to your own undoing.

I have no aspiration whatsoever to change you... so,

Take your self-righteous (= "SELF" [because you of your own doing claim to do as a SINNER] a "RIGHTEOUS" act) and UNASSISTED "repentence with which (you percieve) have GAINED you SALVATION via YOUR DOING (repenting), before the Creator, ...and see whatcha get. ;)


Peace... :groupray:


...willieH :hug:

kindness may lead us to repentance as has already been shown but you need to prove your point about repentance being caused by God himself on behalf of the sinner. Because leading one to repent and CAUSING repentance are two different things. If you can't prove your point, this discussion is over. I believe repentance is the one thing a sinner must do to be saved, along with believe in the saviour. Secondly, repentance is a lot more than a change of mind that Jesus is Lord. It is a repentance of moral consequence, from darkness to light.

here is more repentance verses for you to prove your position wrong (that God does the repentance for us)

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. -1 John 5:18

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is borna of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. -1 John 3:7-10

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
Galatians 6:7-9

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath givene assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Acts 17:30-32

“...the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, and that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in time. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient to unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. “
Acts 26:16-20

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise , as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward , not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. “-2 Peter 3:9

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. -Matthew 10:32-33

8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: 9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. -Luke 12:8-9

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offendd thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. –Matthew 5:7

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. –Matthew 6:14-15

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. –Matthew 4:17

“And they went out, and preached that men should repent.” –Mark 6:12

3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; -Luke 3:3

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” –Romans 8:13

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Racac, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. –Matthew 5:22

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”-Ephesians 5:3-7

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. -Matthew 18:3-6
 
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createdtoworship

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A disturbing quote that I have never seen before. So how was the world judged 2000 years ago? Satan still seems as strong as ever to me. He-man seems to have the best answer to this, though I don't find it entirely satisfying, for example it doesn't explain how Satan was cast out, assuming that Satan is what is meant by "prince of this world". Satan still seems as strong as ever to me.

Shall be caste out is a future passive in greek

"Shall be cast out (ἐκβληθησεται ἐξω [ekblēthēsetai exō]). Future passive of ἐκβαλλω [ekballō]. Note ἐξω [exō], clean out. The Book of Revelation also proclaims final victory over Satan."

Robertson, A.T.: Word Pictures in the New Testament. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1997, S. Jn 12:31


Satan is still the god of this world

“The ruler of this world” refers to Satan (cf. 2 Cor 4:4). He would “be cast out” when Jesus finished His work at Calvary. This refers to Jesus’ ultimate victory over Satan which, though still future, was initiated in the cross."

Wilkin, Robert N.: The Gospel According to John. In: Wilkin, Robert N. (Hrsg.): The Grace New Testament Commentary. Denton, TX : Grace Evangelical Society, 2010, S. 434


"The sentence has not yet been carried out on the devil, but his doom has been sealed. He is still going through the world carrying on his evil business, but it is just a matter of time before he will be cast into the lake of fire."

MacDonald, William ; Farstad, Arthur: Believer's Bible Commentary : Old and New Testaments. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1995, S. Jn 12:31
 
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createdtoworship

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You need to repent to get to heaven, which verses say that?

MANY OF THESE VERSES ARE FROM THE MOUTH OF CHRIST HIMSELF

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. –Matthew 4:17

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”-Galatians 5:19-21

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
Galatians 6:7-9

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30 –Matthew 19:29

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”-Ephesians 5:3-7

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. Mark 12:28-34

“Confirming they should of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.” Acts 14:22

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. -Matthew 18:3-6

“But after the hardness and impenitent heart treasures up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:”
Romans 2:5-7
 
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Sophrosyne

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If the wages of sin is physical death, why are people dying without being judged yet? huh?
and what about those who die and are brought back to life again, does that mean they didn't pay the enough of the wages of sin and had to pay again?
 
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he-man

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Why did you leave Hebrews 12:29 in greek? It really makes the point.
For our God is a consuming fire.
Because it means TOTAL destruction, to wipe out, annihilate
Heb 12:29 και γαρ ο θεος ημων πυρ καταναλισκον
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2654 καταναλισκον consume eat or drink; destroy; use up, demolish, lay waste, wipe out, annihilate

[/FONT][/FONT]

 
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createdtoworship

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and what about those who die and are brought back to life again, does that mean they didn't pay the enough of the wages of sin and had to pay again?

lazerus had to die twice then, I guess he didn't pay enough the first time he died.
 
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