Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[createdtoworship]

Hi Gradyll,
The effects are eternal, but if you look more closely at the Rev 20 text, its only the beast, false prophet, the devil (and the fallen angels) that would be tortured forever in the lake of fire. Their rebellion was unique. It simply states after that those names who were not found in the book of life were also thrown in, but says nothing of the duration. After that, I believe comes annihilation.
There is one text which could suuggest non stop torment is in rev 14 and the qualifying condition is those who had worshipped the beast and received the mark. That would also constitute 'rebellion'.

yes but matthew declares the same fate of the wicked as will satan and his angels...

Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"

 

[he-man]

Thank you for posting.
Ezekiel 18:20 says "The soul that sins is the one that shall die".
In Matthew 10:28 Jesus says "Rather fear the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna"

You got it brother! It also says you are responsible for your own sin. You cannot lay it on a superstitious demon/devil.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh From H5314; properly a breathing creature

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Deu 24:16; 2Kings 14:6; 2Ch 25:4
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity:


Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Sin is the cause of death, there are NO Fallen Angels or demons

 

[createdtoworship]

[/SIZE][/SIZE]Sin is the cause of death, there are NO Fallen Angels or demons

[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

What does the Bible say about fallen angels?

Lucifer, another archangel, rebelled against God and became the devil. Following are verses often quoted in reference to the evil one.

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! 13 "But you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High" (Isaiah 14:12-14).

Most scholars agree that one third of the angels fell into sin and became demons.

"And another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth . . . " (Rev. 12:3-4).

In the future, there will be a judgment upon the fallen angels:

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels," (Matt. 25:41).
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment," (2 Pet. 2:4).
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day," (Jude 6).
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him," (Rev. 12:9).

 

[he-man]

What does the Bible say about fallen angels?

Lucifer, another archangel, rebelled against God and became the devil. (Isaiah 14:12-14).

This is what the Bible teaches.

The Satan doctrine is one of the most deceptive and corrupt doctrines to ever enter Christendom, and which has been embraced and promoted by false teachers for thousands of years.

Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.

While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.

Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained sodue to Christian dogma and popular tradition.

For Newton, therefore, demons were figures for disordered psychotic states. The cases of demon-possession in the Synoptic Gospels do not describe the activity of literal devils, but instead reflect the (mistaken) beliefs of first-century Jews.’

‘Newton laid the blame for the rise of the pagan doctrines about demons in the Church at the door of his ecclesiastical nemesis Athanasius

Later than Muggleton, but earlier than Bekker, Newton came to the same conclusion as both of them – that the devil in Scripture was never the supernatural evil being of ‘orthodox’ theology, and that all temptation comes from the lust of the heart:

Newton’s “Paradoxical questions concerning Athanasius,” an important manuscript held at the Clark Library dating from the early 1690s, makes this clear’

The “Devil”, then, is a symbol of lust and an vivid hypostatization of idolatry in aggregate.

This language cannot be reconciled with the orthodox position.’
Stephen Snobelen, ‘Lust, Pride, And Ambition:
Isaac Newton And The Devil’, pages 7, 8,9,10,11,12 November 2002

Job says that all the evil which the LORD had brought upon him

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him

In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary" or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge).

Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches.

Satan Sa'tan. The word itself, the Hebrew satan, is simply an "adversary," and is so used in 1 Sam 29:4; 2 Sam 19:22; 1 Kin 6:4; 11:14, 23, 25; Numb 22:22, 33; Psal 109:6

This original sense is still found in our Lord's application of the name to St. Peter in Matt 16:23

It is used as a proper name or title only four times in the Old Testament, vis. (with the article) in Job 1:6, 12; 2:1; Zech 2:1 and without the article in 1 Chr 21:1

There is no unambiguous reference to the Devil in the Torah, the Prophets, or the Writings.
Carus P.History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil

David Joris (c. 1501–1556, Against this is his rationalist approach to the topic of the devil and supernatural evil. David Joris anticipated the views of Thomas Hobbes, John Epps and Dr. John Thomas in interpreting the devil as an allegory

You need to go to the next level of learning. Consider what Paul said and what he was speaking of was not the literal superstitious Satan but "It was probably a bodily malady, in the flesh; but its nature must remain a matter of conjecture." [JFB]

2 Cor 12:7 Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to smack me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

 

[createdtoworship]

This is what the Bible teaches.

The Satan doctrine is one of the most deceptive and corrupt doctrines to ever enter Christendom, and which has been embraced and promoted by false teachers for thousands of years.

Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.

While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.

Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained sodue to Christian dogma and popular tradition.

For Newton, therefore, demons were figures for disordered psychotic states. The cases of demon-possession in the Synoptic Gospels do not describe the activity of literal devils, but instead reflect the (mistaken) beliefs of first-century Jews.’

‘Newton laid the blame for the rise of the pagan doctrines about demons in the Church at the door of his ecclesiastical nemesis Athanasius

Later than Muggleton, but earlier than Bekker, Newton came to the same conclusion as both of them – that the devil in Scripture was never the supernatural evil being of ‘orthodox’ theology, and that all temptation comes from the lust of the heart:

Newton’s “Paradoxical questions concerning Athanasius,” an important manuscript held at the Clark Library dating from the early 1690s, makes this clear’

The “Devil”, then, is a symbol of lust and an vivid hypostatization of idolatry in aggregate.

This language cannot be reconciled with the orthodox position.’
Stephen Snobelen, ‘Lust, Pride, And Ambition:
Isaac Newton And The Devil’, pages 7, 8,9,10,11,12 November 2002

Job says that all the evil which the LORD had brought upon him

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him

In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary" or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge).

Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches.

Satan Sa'tan. The word itself, the Hebrew satan, is simply an "adversary," and is so used in 1 Sam 29:4; 2 Sam 19:22; 1 Kin 6:4; 11:14, 23, 25; Numb 22:22, 33; Psal 109:6

This original sense is still found in our Lord's application of the name to St. Peter in Matt 16:23

It is used as a proper name or title only four times in the Old Testament, vis. (with the article) in Job 1:6, 12; 2:1; Zech 2:1 and without the article in 1 Chr 21:1

There is no unambiguous reference to the Devil in the Torah, the Prophets, or the Writings.
Carus P.History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil

David Joris (c. 1501–1556, Against this is his rationalist approach to the topic of the devil and supernatural evil. David Joris anticipated the views of Thomas Hobbes, John Epps and Dr. John Thomas in interpreting the devil as an allegory

You need to go to the next level of learning. Consider what Paul said and what he was speaking of was not the literal superstitious Satan but "It was probably a bodily malady, in the flesh; but its nature must remain a matter of conjecture." [JFB]

2 Cor 12:7 Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to smack me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

But it's more important what the Bible actually says than Newton
Newton rejected the trinity as well, he wasn't perfect you know.

and you refused to answer these verses regarding satan

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels," (Matt. 25:41).
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment," (2 Pet. 2:4).
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day," (Jude 6).
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him," (Rev. 12:9).

 

[he-man]

and you refused to answer these verses regarding satan

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him," (Rev. 12:9).

Do you know the difference between past tense and FUTURE tense?

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

 

[createdtoworship]

Do you know the difference between past tense and FUTURE tense?

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Yes, it's future tense when Satan is caste out of the heavens permanently but what does it matter? You still never answered the other verses.

Matthew 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6

 

[he-man]

Yes, it's future tense when Satan is caste out of the heavens permanently but what does it matter? You still never answered the other verses. Matthew 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6

First answer a question for me. Where do you think the creature you try to describe came from? It certainly is not from any of the following.

Rev 4:1 is in the FUTURE

Isa 14:12 is the King of Babylon

Ezek 28 is the King of Tyre

Gen 3:14 says upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
so it certainly cannot be running around going to and fro on its belly eating dust

Jude 6 says reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Pet 2:4 says in chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Who are the ones Jesus calls them on the left hand? Who accused Christ?

Mr 15:1 And at once, in the morning, the High Priest held a council to bring the elders and learned in the Mosaic law even the whole assembly; and they bound Jesus, and brought him in, and handed him over to Pilate.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.


46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty<G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, penalize[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]15...they were judged every man according to their works. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[createdtoworship]

First answer a question for me. Where do you think the creature you try to describe came from? It certainly is not from any of the following.

Rev 4:1 is in the FUTURE

Isa 14:12 is the King of Babylon

Ezek 28 is the King of Tyre

Gen 3:14 says upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
so it certainly cannot be running around going to and fro on its belly eating dust

Jude 6 says reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Pet 2:4 says in chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Luke 10:18 is where He came from
18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Now that I answered your question as to WHERE did satan come from you can answer the rest of the verses and stop avoiding them.

Who are the ones Jesus calls them on the left hand? Who accused Christ?

Mr 15:1 And at once, in the morning, the High Priest held a council to bring the elders and learned in the Mosaic law even the whole assembly; and they bound Jesus, and brought him in, and handed him over to Pilate.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.


46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty<G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, penalize[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]15...they were judged every man according to their works. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Just because most verses don't show how Satan came into the world doesn't mean that luke 18 doesn't and it doesn't mean that you can just skimp over the other verses now and say that there is NO evidence for satan when you have been shown numerous times that there is.

you still need to prove that satan OR his angels don't exist in these verses, this is the third time posting this.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels," (Matt. 25:41).
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment," (2 Pet. 2:4).
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day," (Jude 6).

 

[LutheranMafia]

There is also Job:

One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, &#8220;Where have you come from?&#8221; Satan answered the LORD, &#8220;From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.&#8221; Then the LORD said to Satan, &#8220;Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.&#8221;
Job 1:6-8
​

 

[Mikecpking]

yes but matthew declares the same fate of the wicked as will satan and his angels...

Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"

Yes, the ones who are not saved get thrown into the same lake of fire. The only discussion point is do the ones who are not found in the book of life are tormented without end (same as the devil and his angels) or do they suffer for a short period of time only to be annihilated.

I personally think that Rev 14 declares that those who receive the mark and worship the beast could be non-stop tortured forever, but for the rest who don't receive the mark or worship the beast will be annihilated in the lake of fire.

Just before being thrown in after judgment, you will get your 'gnashing of teeth, etc, because they realise its too late for salvation.

 

[createdtoworship]

Yes, the ones who are not saved get thrown into the same lake of fire. The only discussion point is do the ones who are not found in the book of life are tormented without end (same as the devil and his angels) or do they suffer for a short period of time only to be annihilated.

I personally think that Rev 14 declares that those who receive the mark and worship the beast could be non-stop tortured forever, but for the rest who don't receive the mark or worship the beast will be annihilated in the lake of fire.

Just before being thrown in after judgment, you will get your 'gnashing of teeth, etc, because they realise its too late for salvation.

the verse says that those who are on the left (the wicked ones) will be caste into eternal fire. These have not accepted or rejected the mark of the beast and yet they will burn for eternity.

Matthew 25:45-46
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

 

[he-man]

Luke 10:18 is where He came from
18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Now that I answered your question as to WHERE did satan come from you can answer the rest of the verses and stop avoiding them.

You call that an answer?
Luk 10:18 and he said to them, `I was beholding the adversary, as lightning from the heaven having fallen; [YLT]
Thus should the fall of the corrupt Jewish state be, and thus was the fall of idolatry in the Gentile world.
[CLARKE]

A very temporary form of satanic operation to the entire kingdom of evil.[JFB]

A transcription of the Hebrew word, derived from a verb to lie in wait or oppose. Hence an adversary. [VWS]

you still need to prove that satan OR his angels don't exist in these verses, this is the third time posting this.

They cannot be an imaginery creature because they are reserved in everlasting chains, not running loose or even allowed out of the chains until Judgment.
Jude 6 says reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Pet 2:4 says in chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels," (Matt. 25:41).

Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty <G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, penalize[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Who are these ones that Jesus callsthem on the left hand?

Who accused Christ? the High Priest held a council to bring the elders and learned in the Mosaic law even the whole assembly; and they bound Jesus

Mr 15:1 And at once, in the morning, the High Priest held a council to bring the elders and learned in the Mosaic law even the whole assembly; and they bound Jesus, and brought him in, and handed him over to Pilate.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]15...they were judged every man according to their works[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (NOT torture but DEATH)

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (NOT torture but DEATH)[/FONT]

 

[createdtoworship]

"Thus should the fall of the corrupt Jewish state be, and thus was the fall of idolatry in the Gentile world."[/SIZE]
[CLARKE]

You quote mined Adam Clarke and made it sound like He didn't believe in the Devil.....

Here is the entire quote in context

"Satan himself, the very Satan, the supreme adversary: falling, as lightening, with the utmost suddenness, as a flash of lightening falls from the clouds, and at the same time, in the most observable manner. The fall was both very sudden and very apparent. Thus should the fall of the corrupt Jewish state be, and thus was the fall o f idolatry in the Gentile world." -Clarke Commentary

Clarke didn't reject that Satan fell from heaven nor did He compare the fall to the Jewish state or the gentile idolatry. Clarke was simply comparing the suddenness of the fall to the fall of the Jewish state. So you quoted out of context and Quote mined Clarke on this occasion.

A very temporary form of satanic operation to the entire kingdom of evil.[JFB]

you quote mined James fausset brown as well, here is the whole quote in context.

"When therefore the Seventy say, "the devils [demons] are subject to us," and Jesus replies, "Mine eye was beholding Satan falling," it is plain that He meant to raise their minds not only from the particular to the general, but from a very temporary form of satanic operation to the entire kingdom of evil. "

JFB was saying that there is a general and a temporary interpretation. The general interpretation was that Satan Fell like lightening.

A transcription of the Hebrew word, derived from a verb to lie in wait or oppose. Hence an adversary.

this makes no sense since the language of the New Testament is Greek.

[VWS]They cannot be an imaginery creature because they are reserved in everlasting chains, not running loose or even allowed out of the chains until Judgment.
Jude 6 says reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Pet 2:4 says in chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty <G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, penalize[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

yes demons are in chains but apparently they are long enough for them to travel to the earth else why would the Diciples say "the demons are subject to us" Luke 10:17

Who are these ones that Jesus callsthem on the left hand?

Who accused Christ? the High Priest held a council to bring the elders and learned in the Mosaic law even the whole assembly; and they bound Jesus

Mr 15:1 And at once, in the morning, the High Priest held a council to bring the elders and learned in the Mosaic law even the whole assembly; and they bound Jesus, and brought him in, and handed him over to Pilate.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]15...they were judged every man according to their works[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (NOT torture but DEATH)

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (NOT torture but DEATH)[/FONT]

it's a stretch to say that those on His left hand are only Jews especially when the Context was doing it to"one of the least of these my brethren" Those who reject the parable of the good samaritan are those on the left, those who don't LOVE. GENTILES TOO. Thus matthew 25:41 speaks of ALL THE WICKED OF THE WORLD.

 

[he-man]

You quote mined Adam Clarke and made it sound like He didn't believe in the Devil.....

Thus should the fall of the corrupt Jewish state be, and thus was the fall of idolatry in the Gentile world." -Clarke Commentary

" it is plain that He meant to raise their minds not only from the particular to the general, but from a very temporary form of satanic operation to the entire kingdom of evil. "

A transcription of the Hebrew word, derived from a verb to lie in wait or oppose. Hence an adversary. [VWS]

Devil is a synonym for Satan / Ha-Satan, which descends from the Middle English devel, from Old English de-ofol, that in turn represents an early Germanic borrowing of Latin diabolus (also the source of "diabolical").

This in turn was borrowed from Ancient Greek diábolos (&#948;&#953;&#945;&#946;&#955;&#959;&#962, "slanderer", from diaballein "to slander": dia- "across, through" + ballein "to hurl".
Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, on Perseus

In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary"

(The term "satan" was also used to designate human enemies of the Hebrews that Yahweh raised against them.)

yes demons are in chains but apparently they are long enough for them to travel to the earth else why would the Diciples say "the demons are subject to us" Luke 10:17

Jude 6 says reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Pet 2:4 says in chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty <G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, penalize[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches.

it's a stretch to say that those on His left hand are only Jews especially when the Context was doing it to"one of the least of these my brethren" Those who reject the parable of the good samaritan are those on the left, those who don't LOVE. GENTILES TOO. Thus matthew 25:41 speaks of ALL THE WICKED OF THE WORLD.

The question was Who accused Christ? the High Priest held a council to bring the elders and learned in the Mosaic law even the whole assembly; and they bound Jesus

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (NOT torture but DEATH)

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (NOT torture but DEATH)[/FONT]

This original sense [adversary]is still found in our Lord's application of the name to St. Peter in Matt 16:23 It is used as a proper name or title only four times in the Old Testament, vis. (with the article) in Job 1:6, 12; 2:1; Zech 2:1 and without the article in 1 Chr 21:1

In 1737 Sykes published ‘An enquiry into the meaning of demoniacks in the New Testament’ going further than Joseph Mede’s exposition of the ‘Doctrine of Demons’ by rejecting any belief in the existence of demons and regarding those possessed as simply suffering from mental illness, as the later work of Dr. Richard Mead.

He also rejected the devil as a supernatural evil being, taking the allegory argument of John Epps. He taught that Hell is the grave, not the place of torment of mainstream Christianity

The most infamous of Epps' unorthodox views regards the devil (1842), though he was one of a long line of Dissenters to take this view stretching back through Simpson (1804), Lardner (1742), Sykes (1737), going back to the Dutch Anabaptist David Joris (1540).[2]

According to Epps, references in the Bible to the devil and Satan are, in the main to be understood as personifications of the lustful principle in man and
that the devil is not a personal being.

Carus P. History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil
Thomas Hobbes (1651); Arthur Ashley Sykes (1737); Richard Mead (1755)

Ashdowne, ‘‘AN INQUIRY INTO THE Scripture Meaning of the Word SATAN, AND ITS SYNONIMOUS TERMS, The DEVIL, or the ADVERSARY, and the WICKED-ONE’, page 40, 1794

Burke, J. Christianity in the Witch Hunt Era, 2008

 

[createdtoworship]

It doesn't matter if the demons are chained or not, they still exist.

You still never answered the other verses.

Matthew 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6


and here are a lot more verses about demonic possession:

And don't try to tell me they were all mentally ill. They would have to all be "lunatiks" for that to be true. But what the truth is that some were epileptics some were sick some were mentally ill. There are only two occasions of Jesus healing a mentally ill person out of all His healings.


here are your verses on demon possession:

Ephesians 6:12 states Satan has a hierarchy of "devils" in his kingdom, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Not mental illness.

In Daniel 10:13 (as well as Mark 9:29) there is an example of this. "The prince of the kingdom of Persia" withstood the angel sent to explain Daniel's vision to him for 21 days. He could only break free when the angel Michael came and helped him overcome the powerful "prince." The "prince" may have been Satan, but more likely he was a very powerful devil.


Matthew 9:32-34: Jesus made a demon-possessed mute man speak, the Pharisees said it was by the power of Beelzebub (also Mark 3:20-22). (no mental illness there)
Matthew 10:1-8: The Twelve Apostles given the authority to drive out evil spirits (also Mark 3:15; 6:7; 6:13; Luke 9:1; 10:17). (no mental illness there)
Matthew 12:22-32: Jesus healed a demon-possessed blind and dumb man (also Luke 11:14-23; 12:10; Mark 3:20-30).(no mental illness there)
Matthew 12:43-45: Jesus told an allegory of nasty spirits coming back home, that is, to the human body where they have lived before (also Luke 11:24-26).(no mental illness there)
Matthew 15:21-28: Jesus expelled a demon from the body of the daughter of a Canaanite woman (also Mark 7:24-30).(no mental illness there)
Mark 1:21-28: Jesus expelled a nasty spirit from a man (also Luke 4:31-37).(no mental illness there)
Mark 9:38-40: A non-Christian is seen driving out demons in Jesus' name (also Luke 9:49-50).
Mark 16:9: Jesus had driven seven demons out of Mary Magdalene (also Luke 8:2).(no mental illness there)
Luke 7:21: Many people are cleansed from evil spirits by Jesus.
Luke 13:10-17: Jesus expelled a spirit of disease from the body of a woman on the Sabbath.(no mental illness there)
Luke 22:3: Satan entered into Judas Iscariot (also John 13:27).
Acts 5:3: Satan filled the heart of Ananias.(no mental illness there)
Acts 5:16: The Apostles healed those tormented by evil spirits.(no mental illness there)
Acts 8:6-8: At the teaching of Philip the Evangelist in Samaria, evil spirits came out of many.(no mental illness there)
Acts 10:38: St. Peter said Jesus healed all who were under the power of the devil.(no mental illness there)
Acts 16:16-24: Paul and Silas were imprisoned for driving a future-telling spirit out of a slave girl.(no mental illness there)
Acts 19:11-12: Handkerchiefs and aprons touched by Paul cured illness and drove out evil spirits.(no mental illness there)
Acts 19:13-20: Seven sons of Sceva attempted to drive out evil spirits by saying: "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." But because they did not have faith in Jesus, they were unsuccessful and were actually driven from that house by the possessed.(no mental illness there)

 

[he-man]

It doesn't matter if the demons are chained or not, they still exist.

Jude 6 says reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Pet 2:4 says in chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

He hath reserved in everlasting chains - That is, in a state of confinement from which they cannot escape.

"The messengers/angels that sinned" thus belongs to the wilderness experiences of Israel Num. 16.
It does not tell of angels being expelled from heaven to engage in marauding expeditions against human interests and divine authority, wherever their caprice might lead them; but of disobedient angels/messengers, not necessarily in heaven, being degraded from their position, and confined in the grave against a time of judgment.

It speaks of them as in custody, "under chains of darkness" &#8212;a metaphor highly expressive of the bondage of death&#8212;in which they are held, and from which they will emerge, to be judged, at a time when the saints shall sit in judgment (1 Cor. 6:3).
​

Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.​

46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty <G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, penalize[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches.

You still never answered the
other verses. Matthew 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6

Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty <G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

and here are a lot more with demonic possession: Ephesians 6:12; Daniel 10:13 (Mark 9:29) Matthew 9:32-34: ( Mark 3:20-22).Matthew 10:1-8: ( Mark 3:15; 6:7; 6:13; Luke 9:1; 10:17).Matthew 11:16-19: ( Luke 7:31-35). Matthew 12:22-32: (Luke 11:14-23; 12:10; Mark 3:20-30) Matthew 12:43-45: ( Luke 11:24-26).
Matthew 15:21-28: (Mark 7:24-30) Matthew 17:14-21: (Mark 9:14-29; Luke 9:37-49) Mark 1:21-28: (Luke 4:31-37) Mark 9:38-40: (Luke 9:49-50) Mark 16:9: (Luke 8:2) Luke 7:21: Luke 13:10-17: Luke 13:31-32: Luke 22:3: (John 13:27) John 7:20: John 8:48-52: John 10:20-21: Acts 5:3:
Acts 5:16: Acts 8:6-8: Acts 8:18-19: Acts 10:38: Acts 16:16-24: Acts 19:11-12: Acts 19:13-20:Revelation 18:2:

Demons

"devils" in the original Greek is a different word from that translated "devil". This distinction between the two must be recognized in order to appreciate the explanation applicable to "devils", as distinct from "devil". ​

While "devil" is in the original diabolos, "devils" is the plural of daimon, which has a very different meaning from
diabolos. Daimon is the name given by the Greeks to beings imagined by them to exist in the air, and to act a mediatorial part between God and man, for good or evil. ​

These imaginary beings would be expressed in English by demon, evil genius, or tutelar deity, all of which belong to Pagan mythology, and have no place in the system of the truth.​

"lunatic", originated in the idea that madness was the result of the moon's influence, but which nobody now uses to express that idea​

Christ shows how the false god Beelzebub did not exist.​

"If I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your children cast them out?" (Matt. 12:27). a god worshipped by the Philistines of Ekron (2 Kings 1:6)​

The casting out of demons spoken of in the New Testament was nothing more or less than the curing of epileptic fits and brain disorders, as distinct from bodily diseases. Of this, any one may be satisfied by an attentive reading of the narrative and close consideration of the
symptoms, as recorded.​

Lord, have mercy on my son: he is lunatic, and sore vexed: for oft times he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.... And Jesus rebuked the demon, and he departed out of him (Matt. 17:15, 18)​

Mat 17:15
Epileptic (sele&#772;niazetai). Literally, "moonstruck," "lunatic." The symptoms of epilepsy were supposed to be aggravated by the changes of the moon (cf. Mat_4:24).
Sickness was often regarded as "torture."

(McNeile) as "demoniacs, lunatics, and paralytics" as Moffatt puts it, "demoniacs, epileptics, paralytics" as Weymouth has it, (daimonizomenous kai sele&#772;niazomenous kai paralutikous), people possessed by demons, lunatics or "moon-struck" because the epileptic seizures supposedly followed the phases of the moon (Bruce) as shown also in

Mat_17:15, paralytics (our very word). Our word "lunatic" is from the Latin luna (moon) and carries the same picture as the Greek sele&#772;niazomai from sele&#772;ne&#772; (moon). [RWP]

Luke 7:33 and ye say, he hath a devil; is mad, or melancholy; for madness and melancholy, or the hypochondriac disorder, was by them sometimes imputed to a diabolical possession, and influence, as the cause of it; and though these men pretended to great austerity of life, and frequent fastings, yet John was too abstemious for them, and they could not agree with his doctrine nor method of living; [GILL]

Mr 5:15 And they came to Jesus, and viewed the one having been possessed, sitting, and having been clothed, and free from having many mental disorders: and they feared.

Mar 5:15 and in his right mind, [ESV]

Mar 5:15 and right-minded [YLT]

Lu 4:36 And it happened everybody was amazed, and together talking, to each other said, What word is this? In order that in authority and power he commandeered the unclean spirits, and they went out.


Mr 5:25 And a woman, who sustained twelve years and more, an issue of blood, in her stools,

26 And had suffered by many healers, and they had consumed all the things from her, and she profited nothing, but rather having become worse,

29 And at once the fount of her blood was dried up; and she knew that her body was restored from the infest, to a spiritual mind from the scourge.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against magistracy, against powers, against the rulers of the obscurity of this world, against spiritual guile in high places.

16 over all taking up the shield of faith, with which you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.


Mr 3:21 And those having heard from him. went out to lay hands on him, for they said &#8212;He is out of his wits!

G1839 &#949;&#958;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#945;&#957;&#964;&#959; put (standing) out of wits
Etc. ETC. ETC.

 

[createdtoworship]

Jude 6 says reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Pet 2:4 says in chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

He hath reserved in everlasting chains - That is, in a state of confinement from which they cannot escape.

"The messengers/angels that sinned" thus belongs to the wilderness experiences of Israel Num. 16.
It does not tell of angels being expelled from heaven to engage in marauding expeditions against human interests and divine authority, wherever their caprice might lead them; but of disobedient angels/messengers, not necessarily in heaven, being degraded from their position, and confined in the grave against a time of judgment.

It speaks of them as in custody, "under chains of darkness" &#8212;a metaphor highly expressive of the bondage of death&#8212;in which they are held, and from which they will emerge, to be judged, at a time when the saints shall sit in judgment (1 Cor. 6:3). ​

many believe the chains are only for those who "left their original estate"

The Angels that sinned with humans - Genesis 6
The Sons of God slept with human women...

The strange events recorded in Genesis 6 were understood by the ancient rabbinical sources, as well as the Septuagint translators, as referring to fallen angels procreating weird hybrid offspring with human women-known as the "Nephilim." So it was also understood by the early church fathers.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

Peter's comments even establishes the time of the fall of these angels to the days of the Flood of Noah.

Even Peter's vocabulary is provocative. Peter uses the term Tartarus, here translated "hell." This is the only place that this Greek term appears in the Bible. Tartarus is a Greek term for "dark abode of woe"; "the pit of darkness in the unseen world." As used in Homer's Iliad, it is "...as far beneath hades as the earth is below heaven`."22 In Greek mythology, some of the demigods, Chronos and the rebel Titans, were said to have rebelled against their father, Uranus, and after a prolonged contest they were defeated by Zeus and were condemned into Tartarus.

The Epistle of Jude23 also alludes to the strange episodes when these ... creatures intruded themselves into the human reproductive process:

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6,7

The allusions to "going after strange flesh," keeping "not their first estate," having "left their own habitation," and "giving themselves over to fornication," seem to clearly fit the ...intrusions of Genesis 6. (The term for habitation, oivkhth,rion, refers to their heavenly bodies from which they had disrobed.24)

These allusions from the New Testament would seem to be fatal to the "Sethite" alternative in interpreting Genesis 6. If the intercourse between the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" were merely marriage between Sethites and Cainites, it seems impossible to explain these passages, and the reason why some fallen angels are imprisoned and others are free to roam the heavenlies.

above from following link on the nephilim
http://www.khouse.org/articles/1997/110/#articles

Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches. Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.

Why would God use the term demon or possession in the original language why not use paralysis or epileptic or lunatik? Thirdly, it looks like you changed your mind from NO DEMONS to "DEMONS IN CHAINS." When did that happen?

46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty <G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Demons

"devils" in the original Greek is a different word from that translated "devil". This distinction between the two must be recognized in order to appreciate the explanation applicable to "devils", as distinct from "devil". ​

While "devil" is in the original diabolos, "devils" is the plural of daimon, which has a very different meaning from
diabolos. Daimon is the name given by the Greeks to beings imagined by them to exist in the air, and to act a mediatorial part between God and man, for good or evil. ​

These imaginary beings would be expressed in English by demon, evil genius, or tutelar deity, all of which belong to Pagan mythology, and have no place in the system of the truth.​

"lunatic", originated in the idea that madness was the result of the moon's influence, but which nobody now uses to express that idea​

Christ shows how the false god Beelzebub did not exist.
"If I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your children cast them out?" (Matt. 12:27). a god worshipped by the Philistines of Ekron (2 Kings 1:6)​

Here is a comprehensive list of verses that speak of Demon possessions as simply more than "lunacy", "epilepsy" and "paralysis." Even if your theory is true- "that demon possession is a mental disorder" then these would need more explaining on your part:

Ephesians 6:12 states Satan has a hierarchy of "devils" in his kingdom, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
In Daniel 10:13 (as well as Mark 9:29) there is an example of this. "The prince of the kingdom of Persia" withstood the angel sent to explain Daniel's vision to him for 21 days. He could only break free when the angel Michael came and helped him overcome the powerful "prince." The "prince" may have been Satan, but more likely he was a very powerful devil.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)


Matthew 9:32-34: Jesus made a demon-possessed mute man speak, the Pharisees said it was by the power of Beelzebub (also Mark 3:20-22). (no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis)
Matthew 10:1-8: The Twelve Apostles given the authority to drive out evil spirits (also Mark 3:15; 6:7; 6:13; Luke 9:1; 10:17). (no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Matthew 12:22-32: Jesus healed a demon-possessed blind and dumb man (also Luke 11:14-23; 12:10; Mark 3:20-30).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Matthew 12:43-45: Jesus told an allegory of nasty spirits coming back home, that is, to the human body where they have lived before (also Luke 11:24-26).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis)
Matthew 15:21-28: Jesus expelled a demon from the body of the daughter of a Canaanite woman (also Mark 7:24-30).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Mark 1:21-28: Jesus expelled a nasty spirit from a man (also Luke 4:31-37).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Mark 9:38-40: A non-Christian is seen driving out demons in Jesus' name (also Luke 9:49-50).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis)
Mark 16:9: Jesus had driven seven demons out of Mary Magdalene (also Luke 8:2).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Luke 7:21: Many people are cleansed from evil spirits by Jesus.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Luke 13:10-17: Jesus expelled a spirit of disease from the body of a woman on the Sabbath.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Luke 22:3: Satan entered into Judas Iscariot (also John 13:27).
Acts 5:3: Satan filled the heart of Ananias.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 5:16: The Apostles healed those tormented by evil spirits.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 8:6-8: At the teaching of Philip the Evangelist in Samaria, evil spirits came out of many.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 10:38: St. Peter said Jesus healed all who were under the power of the devil.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 16:16-24: Paul and Silas were imprisoned for driving a future-telling spirit out of a slave girl.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 19:11-12: Handkerchiefs and aprons touched by Paul cured illness and drove out evil spirits.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 19:13-20: Seven sons of Sceva attempted to drive out evil spirits by saying: "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." But because they did not have faith in Jesus, they were unsuccessful and were actually driven from that house by the possessed.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)


​

Mat 25:41, 45 Then shall he answer them ...prepared for the accuser and his messengers.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting penalty <G2851>: but the righteous into life eternal.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2851 &#954;&#959;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]chastisement, discipline, penalize[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

your answer for matthew 25 which you keep cutting and pasting on every post makes no sense. Just because they are reserved for everlasting penalty, it is still everlasting non the less. This is speaking of the long term punishment for both the demons that left their original estate and those who simply possess.

 

[he-man]

many believe the chains are only for those who "left their original estate" Why would God use the term demon or possession in the original language why not use paralysis or epileptic or lunatik? Thirdly, it looks like you changed your mind from NO DEMONS to "DEMONS IN CHAINS." When did that happen?

Demons

"devils" in the original Greek is a different word from that translated "devil". This distinction between the two must be recognized in order to appreciate the explanation applicable to "devils", as distinct from "devil". ​

While "devil" is in the original diabolos, "devils" is the plural of daimon, which has a very different meaning from diabolos. Daimon is the name given by the Greeks to beings imagined by them to exist in the air, and to act a mediatorial part between God and man, for good or evil. ​

These imaginary beings would be expressed in English by demon, evil genius, or tutelar deity, all of which belong to Pagan mythology, and have no place in the system of the truth.​

"lunatic", originated in the idea that madness was the result of the moon's influence, but which nobody now uses to express that idea​

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against magistracy, against powers, against the rulers of the obscurity of this world, against spiritual guile in high places.

In Daniel 10:13 "The prince/ruler of the kingdom of Persia"

Luk 7:21 In that same hour from there he cured many people from diseases and afflictions and artful spirits, and many blind he granted sight. G4190 &#960;&#957;&#949;&#965;&#956;&#945;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#960;&#959;&#957;&#951;&#961;&#969;&#957;

Luk 13:11 And there was a woman who had had a disabling spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over [with arthritis] and could not fully straighten herself.

Mr 5:25 And a woman, who sustained twelve years and more, an issue of blood, in her stools,

26 And had suffered by many healers, and they had consumed all the things from her, and she profited nothing, but rather having become worse,

29 And at once the fount of her blood was dried up; and she knew that her body was restored from the infest, to a spiritual mind from the scourge.


Your lacking full understanding leaves your quotes as imaginery ghosts! It does not blame an imaginary creature but says it was the Holy Spirit by the mouth of David, who ordered the scripture to be carried out.


Act 1:16 `Men, brethren, it behoved this Writing that it be fulfilled that beforehand the Holy Spirit spake through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who became guide to those who took Jesus,


Luke 22:3: Judas Iscariot hath lifted up his heel against me.

Joh 13:18I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.


Psa 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

2Sa 17:14 For the LORD had appointed to defeat the good counsel of Ahithophel, to the intent that the LORD might bring evil upon Absalom.


Act 5:3, 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Christ shows how the false god Beelzebub did not exist.

"If I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your children cast them out?" (Matt. 12:27). a god worshipped by the Philistines of Ekron (2 Kings 1:6)

The casting out of demons spoken of in the New Testament was nothing more or less than the curing of epileptic fits and brain disorders, as distinct from bodily diseases. Of this, any one may be satisfied by an attentive reading of the narrative and close consideration of the symptoms, as recorded.​

Lord, have mercy on my son: he is lunatic, and sore vexed: for oft times he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.... And Jesus rebuked the demon, and he departed out of him (Matt. 17:15, 18)​

Mat 17:15
Epileptic (sele&#772;niazetai). G[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]4583 &#963;&#949;&#955;&#951;&#957;&#953;&#945;&#950;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#953; epileptic

Literally, "moonstruck," "lunatic." The symptoms of epilepsy were supposed to be aggravated by the changes of the moon (cf. Mat_4:24).
Sickness was often regarded as "torture."

(McNeile) as "demoniacs, lunatics, and paralytics" as Moffatt puts it, "demoniacs, epileptics, paralytics" as Weymouth has it, (daimonizomenous kai sele&#772;niazomenous kai paralutikous), people possessed by demons, lunatics or "moon-struck" because the epileptic seizures supposedly followed the phases of the moon (Bruce) as shown also in

Mat_17:15, paralytics (our very word). Our word "lunatic" is from the Latin luna (moon) and carries the same picture as the Greek sele&#772;niazomai from sele&#772;ne&#772; (moon). [RWP]

Luke 7:33 and ye say, he hath a devil; is mad, or melancholy; for madness and melancholy, or the hypochondriac disorder, was by them sometimes imputed to a diabolical possession, and influence, as the cause of it; and though these men pretended to great austerity of life, and frequent fastings, yet John was too abstemious for them, and they could not agree with his doctrine nor method of living; [GILL]

Mr 5:15 And they came to Jesus, and viewed the one having been possessed, sitting, and having been clothed, and free from having many mental disorders: and they feared.
[/FONT][/FONT]
Mar 5:15 and in his right mind, [ESV]

Mar 5:15 and right-minded [YLT]

Lu 4:36 And it happened everybody was amazed, and together talking, to each other said, What word is this? In order that in authority and power he commandeered the unclean spirits, and they went out.

Mr 5:25 And a woman, who sustained twelve years and more, an issue of blood, in her stools,

26 And had suffered by many healers, and they had consumed all the things from her, and she profited nothing, but rather having become worse,

29 And at once the fount of her blood was dried up; and she knew that her body was restored from the infest, to a spiritual mind from the scourge.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against magistracy, against powers, against the rulers of the obscurity of this world, against spiritual guile in high places.

16 over all taking up the shield of faith, with which you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

Mr 3:21 And those having heard from him. went out to lay hands on him, for they said &#8212;He is out of his wits!

G1839 &#949;&#958;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#945;&#957;&#964;&#959; put (standing) out of wits
Etc. ETC. ETC.

 

[createdtoworship]

Demons

"devils" in the original Greek is a different word from that translated "devil". This distinction between the two must be recognized in order to appreciate the explanation applicable to "devils", as distinct from "devil". ​

While "devil" is in the original diabolos, "devils" is the plural of daimon, which has a very different meaning from diabolos. Daimon is the name given by the Greeks to beings imagined by them to exist in the air, and to act a mediatorial part between God and man, for good or evil. ​

These imaginary beings would be expressed in English by demon, evil genius, or tutelar deity, all of which belong to Pagan mythology, and have no place in the system of the truth.​

It doesn't matter that there are devils and "the devil" one is Satan and one are demons. That is obvious. also you changed your mind from not believing in demons to believing they are in chains when did that happen? Is it because I kept posting these verses?

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment," (2 Pet. 2:4).
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day," (Jude 6).

"lunatic", originated in the idea that madness was the result of the moon's influence, but which nobody now uses to express that idea​

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against magistracy, against powers, against the rulers of the obscurity of this world, against spiritual guile in high places.

what translation is this, or is it your own opinion.

In Daniel 10:13 "The prince/ruler of the kingdom of Persia"

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

if this was a human prince, the angel would not be detained

Luk 7:21 In that same hour from there he cured many people from diseases and afflictions and artful spirits, and many blind he granted sight. G4190 &#960;&#957;&#949;&#965;&#956;&#945;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#960;&#959;&#957;&#951;&#961;&#969;&#957;

(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Luk 13:11 And there was a woman who had had a disabling spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over [with arthritis] and could not fully straighten herself. [/QUOTE]
(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)

Mr 5:25 And a woman, who sustained twelve years and more, an issue of blood, in her stools,

26 And had suffered by many healers, and they had consumed all the things from her, and she profited nothing, but rather having become worse,

29 And at once the fount of her blood was dried up; and she knew that her body was restored from the infest, to a spiritual mind from the scourge.

I am not sure what translation you are using unless you are just making it up again here but mine says this.

Mark 5:29And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.


notice
(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)

Your lacking full understanding leaves your quotes as imaginery ghosts! It does not blame an imaginary creature but says it was the Holy Spirit by the mouth of David, who ordered the scripture to be carried out.


Act 1:16 `Men, brethren, it behoved this Writing that it be fulfilled that beforehand the Holy Spirit spake through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who became guide to those who took Jesus,


Luke 22:3: Judas Iscariot hath lifted up his heel against me.

speaking of davids own words the prophecy was that of betrayal not of demon possession

"Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me. "
The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. Ps 41:9

Luke 7:33 and ye say, he hath a devil; is mad, or melancholy; for madness and melancholy, or the hypochondriac disorder, was by them sometimes imputed to a diabolical possession, and influence, as the cause of it; and though these men pretended to great austerity of life, and frequent fastings, yet John was too abstemious for them, and they could not agree with his doctrine nor method of living; [GILL]

what does it matter if they falsely accused John the Baptist of having a demon, it doesn't matter.

Mr 5:15 And they came to Jesus, and viewed the one having been possessed, sitting, and having been clothed, and free from having many mental disorders: and they feared.
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Mar 5:15 and in his right mind, [ESV]

Mar 5:15 and right-minded [YLT]

like I said there are only two occasions of healings of the mentally ill.

Lu 4:36 And it happened everybody was amazed, and together talking, to each other said, What word is this? In order that in authority and power he commandeered the unclean spirits, and they went out.

(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)

Mr 5:25 And a woman, who sustained twelve years and more, an issue of blood, in her stools,
26 And had suffered by many healers, and they had consumed all the things from her, and she profited nothing, but rather having become worse,

29 And at once the fount of her blood was dried up; and she knew that her body was restored from the infest, to a spiritual mind from the scourge.

(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains) It was a plague nothing to do with the mind, see any of the many translations on this.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against magistracy, against powers, against the rulers of the obscurity of this world, against spiritual guile in high places.

16 over all taking up the shield of faith, with which you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)

Mr 3:21 And those having heard from him. went out to lay hands on him, for they said &#8212;He is out of his wits!

G1839 &#949;&#958;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#945;&#957;&#964;&#959; put (standing) out of wits
Etc. ETC. ETC.

[/QUOTE]
this is the second of the two places only that speak of mental illness.


you still never answered my verses


Here is a comprehensive list of verses that speak of Demon possessions as simply more than "lunacy", "epilepsy" and "paralysis." Even if your theory is true- "that demon possession is a mental disorder" then these would need more explaining on your part:

Ephesians 6:12 states Satan has a hierarchy of "devils" in his kingdom, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)

Matthew 9:32-34: Jesus made a demon-possessed mute man speak, the Pharisees said it was by the power of Beelzebub (also Mark 3:20-22). And he called them to him, and said to them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? (Mark 3:23)(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis)
Matthew 10:1-8: The Twelve Apostles given the authority to drive out evil spirits (also Mark 3:15; 6:7; 6:13; Luke 9:1; 10:17). (no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Matthew 12:22-32: Jesus healed a demon-possessed blind and dumb man (also Luke 11:14-23; 12:10; Mark 3:20-30).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Matthew 12:43-45: Jesus told an allegory of nasty spirits coming back home, that is, to the human body where they have lived before (also Luke 11:24-26).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis)
Matthew 15:21-28: Jesus expelled a demon from the body of the daughter of a Canaanite woman (also Mark 7:24-30).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Mark 1:21-28: Jesus expelled a nasty spirit from a man (also Luke 4:31-37).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Mark 9:38-40: A non-Christian is seen driving out demons in Jesus' name (also Luke 9:49-50).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis)
Mark 16:9: Jesus had driven seven demons out of Mary Magdalene (also Luke 8:2).(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Luke 7:21: Many people are cleansed from evil spirits by Jesus.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Luke 13:10-17: Jesus expelled a spirit of disease from the body of a woman on the Sabbath.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Luke 22:3: Satan entered into Judas Iscariot (also John 13:27).
Acts 5:3: Satan filled the heart of Ananias.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 5:16: The Apostles healed those tormented by evil spirits.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 8:6-8: At the teaching of Philip the Evangelist in Samaria, evil spirits came out of many.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 10:38: St. Peter said Jesus healed all who were under the power of the devil.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 16:16-24: Paul and Silas were imprisoned for driving a future-telling spirit out of a slave girl.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 19:11-12: Handkerchiefs and aprons touched by Paul cured illness and drove out evil spirits.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)
Acts 19:13-20: Seven sons of Sceva attempted to drive out evil spirits by saying: "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." But because they did not have faith in Jesus, they were unsuccessful and were actually driven from that house by the possessed.(no mental illness, epilepsy or paralysis, or chains)