Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[createdtoworship]

HELL[/COLOR][/B] has no REASON or LOGIC to it whatsoever...

the wages of sin is death

What is accomplished by it, gradyll? What justice is found in it gradyll? What MERCY is found in it gradyll? Where, in HELL, ...is PAIN and SORROW become "passed away" -- Rev 21:4 -- gradyll?

Hell is for Satan and His demons, but we go there when we are not saved. It's not God's fault that men refuse to repent. Don’t give up on God because men fail you.

You my friend, are (typically) presupposing that YOUR observation, is what the Bible "ACTUALLY SAYS"... ...and IN THAT, presupposing that the observation which JoJo takes is NOT (by using YOUR VIEW as the measure of HERS), what that Bible "ACTUALLY SAYS"...

Actually I believe the most literal method of Bible interpretation

Mark 9:43 says, "And if your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire." The word "unquenchable" is asbestos in the Greek. According to the enhanced Strong's lexicon, it means "unquenchable, the eternal hell fire to punish the damned."

Please! Start with a fallible method (maintaining that your view is what the "Bible actually SAYS"), and you shall SURELY, come to a fallible conclusion.

you need to simply now prove that my method of Bible interpretation is fallible and why yours is infallible.

FIRST -- ADDRESSING the words "ETERNAL" (everlasting & forever)

You (nor does anyone else, including me) ...have no right to use the word ETERNAL (let alone apply it to any other finite person, you being finite yourself), as you do not COMPREHEND its meaning. So any applications you make to any other FINITE are invalid, as you do not understand the term you use.

The words "everlasting, eternal and forever" include in definition -- WITHOUT BEGINNING.

that is just one of the many definitions provided for eternal. It can mean forever starting today as well.

here is a definition for you:

67.95 εἰς τὸ διηνεκές; εἰς αἰῶνα or εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα or εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας or the more elaborate expressions εἰς ἡμέραν αἰῶνος; εἰς παντὰς τοὺς αἰῶνας; εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνοσ/ τῶν αἰώνων; εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων; εἰς τὸ παντελέςa: unlimited duration of time, with particular focus upon the future—‘always, forever, forever and ever, eternally.’

Louw, Johannes P. ; Nida, Eugene Albert: Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament : Based on Semantic Domains. electronic ed. of the 2nd edition. New York : United Bible societies, 1996, c1989, S. 1:640

Until you can CLEARLY explain HOW anything (including GOD) is without beginning, then you use these words INVALIDLY, as you do not COMPREHEND them nor their meaning.

the definition given above focuses on the future not the past....

SECOND -- The FIRE you suggest to be "ETERNAL" which is "UNQUENCHED", does not continue endlessly -- Jude 6 -- concerning the FIRE [PUR] ...of Sodom & Gomorrah

(1) started (which disqualfies it from being ETERNAL) once was not burning.

again the definition of eternal focuses on the future

(2) ended (which disqualifies it from being ETERNAL) no longer burning.

Sodom was an EXAMPLE of eternal fire not eternal fire itself see Jude 1:7

The same word in -- AIONIOS -- translated ETERNAL, in -- Jude 6 -- appears in the above proposed verses.

again sodom and gomorrah are just an EXAMPLE of eternal fire, not the fire of hell itself. It makes no sense that the fires of hell would consume a local city.

"UNQUENCHED" means that it shall not be EXTINGUISHED (which is what "asbestos" presents), until the purpose of the FIRE is FULFILLED... GOD is about creating MAN in His own IMAGE... which is yet to be fulfilled. Until it is, and ALL have been processed, the FIRE (of time) -- 1 Cor 3:11-15 -- Mark 9:44-49 -- shall continue to bring IN THAT PROCESS, ...suffering, teaching and death... which are ALL part of the process -- Heb 2:10 -- Rom 9:21 -- 1 Cor 15:22, 42-50 -- Isaiah 26:9

Heb 2:10 -- Rom 9:21 -- 1 Cor 15:22, 42-50 -- Isaiah 26:9

all of which simply do not contain the greek word for fire (pur)
so you are simply guessing as to the association here.

GOD is a CONSUMING FIRE. -- Heb 12:29 -- ANYTHING which is CONSUMED, is NO LONGER existent. The CHAFF is that which is CONSUMED, ...and which is an INHERENT part of the WHEAT!

man's body is not a literal grain of wheat, that is figurative. And I agree that God is a consuming fire, so according to your definition of fire, God would be consumed as well.

THIRD -- Ask ANY farmer about "wheat and chaff", bro... ...they are 2 components of the SAME entity! Just as the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL are 2 components of the SAME KNOWLEDGE.

you are making no sense in this statment.

FOURTH -- the Word used in your above verses (Matt. 3:12, Luke 3:17, and Mark 9:43) is -- PUR -- #G4442 -- This word is used in both literal or figurative senses. However when it is applied in the SPIRIT, is no longer is FINITELY literal, for it enters into the realm of the SPIRIT. HELL is nothing but fleshly stagnation incorporated in the observation of the WORD...

There are many examples of PUR used in the NT:

(1) which is the same word used in -- Rev 20:15 -- Lake of FIRE...

you are assuming a figurative sense here, fire is literal unless it specifically says that it is figurative in the context of the passage.

(2) which is ALSO the same word used in -- Mark 9:44-49 -- concerning FIRE applied to EVERY MAN...

the context is "every man" amongst the wicked of the previous verses, again context is key to interpretation.

(3) which is ALSO the same word used in -- Rev 3:18 -- which FIRE tried the gold of CHRIST...

a metaphor regarding real Gold and real fire. The metaphor would fail if there was not real fire to test the gold.

(4) which is ALSO same word is used in -- 1 Pet 1:7 -- which proposes that YOUR works will be tried in that SAME FIRE, Gradyll...

yes, our works will be tried through fire. But it is not the same fire as the fires of hell, but it is just as potent. Anymore than a fire in your fire place is the same fire as the fire in mine.


(5) which is ALSO the same word used in -- 1 Cor 3:11-15 -- which FIRE, saves the ONE which has been IN IT... which is EVERY MAN...

fire burns away the things that are not eternal leaving sometimes just a naked soul. That is the purpose of the passage. But God can use whatever kind of fire He chooses, be it literal figurative or whatever. We simply don't know the nature of the fire. It's an assumption to say it is figurative. God is all powerful He can do whatever He wants.

It AMAZES me, that "Hell" proponents... use the passage in -- Mark 9 -- to back their doctrine, ...and ALWAYS conveniently STOP at -- Mark 9:48!

For Mark 9:49 SAYS:

Mark 9:49 -- for EVERY ONE shall be salted with ...FIRE... [PUR] and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

this argument has been answered already above, mainly that "everyone" in the context is the wicked. You simply have to read the passage to understand the context.

The NEGATIVE obsession of the modern ORTHODOX church to take GOD's BELOVED ones, made in His own IMAGE -- John 3:16-17 -- and which CHRIST died for -- Rom 5:6 -- 1 Tim 2:6 -- is the existent and INIQUITOUS TONGUE of GEHENNA which is clearly CONDEMNED by the Apostle James -- James 3:6-10 -- as HYPOCRITICAL... and the undoing of the fountain of TRUTH. And James clearly SAYS: "OUGHT NOT SO TO BE!"

Where does james say the preaching of Hell is hypocritical? I think your reaching now for any and everything without proper hermeneutics.

Dire SHAME awaits the MANY ...which, in DECEPTION, preach this ugly and UNMERCIFUL doctrine, to God's (and CHRIST's) beloved children -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 24:5 -- who are claiming they "come in His name", and yet preach INIQUITY... and are NOT KNOWN by Him, accordingly.

[/QUOTE]

Oh this is classic, take several false observations of scripture and now and an application to it. You have yet to provide one good verse or argument for annihilationism.

It is MUCH more IMPERITIVE for YOU to be "KNOWN" by CHRIST, then for HIM to "KNOWN", by you. -- Matt 7:23 -- "I never KNEW YOU"

again you are assuming that I am not saved based on your incorrect interpretations of scripture. You have yet to provide one good verse or argument for annihilationism.

Shall you hear His voice, gradyll? Or continue bringing this awful ("HELLISH") representation of LOVE to those you encounter, while upon the earth?

So now because you have seen one of the many occasions of "fire" in the Bible as allegory, now ALL the occasions of "fire" are allegory? How so?

IT IS YOU THAT NEED TO HEAR HIS VOICE!

Matthew 13:40-43\
New King James Version (NKJV)
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


ARE ALL OF THESE ALLEGORY? SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE HELL HAS ETERNAL FIRE?

Matt 3:10 good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 3:12 but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
Matt 7:19 good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 13:40 with fire, so will it be at the close of the age.
Matt 17:15 For often he falls into the fire, and often into the water.
Matt 18:8 or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
Matt 25:41 you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared
Mark 9:22 often cast him into fire and into water, to destroy him.
Mark 9:43 two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
Mark 9:48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
Mark 9:49 For everyone will be salted with fire.
Luke 3:9 good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Luke 3:17 but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
Luke 9:54 do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven
Luke 12:49 I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that *
Luke 17:29 fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed
Luke 22:55 fire in the middle of the courtyard and sat down
John 15:6 and the branches are gathered, • thrown into the fire, and burned.
Acts 2:3 fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:19 below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
Acts 7:30 of Mount Sinai, in a flame of fire in a bush.
Acts 28:5 the creature into the fire and suffered no harm.
2 Thess 1:8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who
Heb 1:7 “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Heb 10:27 and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
Heb 11:34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword,
Heb 12:18 a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest
Heb 12:29 for • our God is a consuming fire.
1 Pet 1:7 gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—
2 Pet 3:7 and earth that now exist are stored up for fire,
Jude 7 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Jude 23 out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear,

 

[he-man]

the wages of sin is death

Exactly!

Hell is for Satan and His demons, but we go there when we are not saved.

There is no literal satan, God is the most high over all the earth.

Psa 83:13 O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.
14 As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire;
17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Actually I believe the most literal method of Bible interpretation

Literally, "the wages of sin is death "

you need to simply now prove that my method of Bible interpretation is fallible and why yours is infallible. here is a definition for you:67.95 εἰς τὸ διηνεκές; εἰς αἰῶνα or εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα or εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας or the more elaborate expressions εἰς ἡμέραν αἰῶνος; εἰς παντὰς τοὺς αἰῶνας; εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνοσ/ τῶν αἰώνων; εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων; εἰς τὸ παντελέςa: unlimited duration of time, with particular focus upon the future—‘always, forever, forever and ever, eternally.’

Your method of Bible interpretation is fallible and the interpretation is flawed because "The goal of Biblical exegesis is to explore the meaning of the text which then leads to discovering its significance or relevance"
C17: from Gk exēgēsis, from exēgeisthai 'interpret'. © Oxford University Press, 2004


67.95 is the wrong number the correct number is Louw-Nida Lexicon αιωνιου Section 67.96 ἀΐδιος eternal 67.96 αἰώνιος eternal 67.96

The word is used as "an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>fire." in Jude 1:7

Sodom was an EXAMPLE of eternal fire not eternal fire itself see Jude 1:7
again sodom and gomorrah are just an EXAMPLE of eternal fire, not the fire of hell itself. It makes no sense that the fires of hell would consume a local city.

The problem you have is not understanding that God is the eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>fire and that His judgement upon Sodom was eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> because His FIRE is everlasting, unquenchable.

It was the FIRE of God
Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Mark 3:29, John 6:68, Acts 13:46, Romans 16:26, 1Timothy 6:12, Titus 1:2, 3:7, Heb 5:9, 6:2, 9:14, 15, 1John 5:11,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#957;>judgment.

1Jn 5:11 &#954;&#945;&#953; &#945;&#965;&#964;&#951; &#949;&#963;&#964;&#953;&#957; &#951; &#956;&#945;&#961;&#964;&#965;&#961;&#953;&#945; &#959;&#964;&#953; &#950;&#969;&#951;&#957; eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#957;>&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#957; &#949;&#948;&#969;&#954;&#949;&#957; &#951;&#956;&#953;&#957; &#959; &#952;&#949;&#959;&#962; &#954;&#945;&#953; &#945;&#965;&#964;&#951; &#951; &#950;&#969;&#951; &#949;&#957; &#964;&#969; &#965;&#953;&#969; &#945;&#965;&#964;&#959;&#965; &#949;&#963;&#964;&#953;&#957;
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>fire.

Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> judgement:

Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life.

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>inheritance.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G166 &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; sempiternal, having beginning, but &#960;&#959; end, age long, forever[/FONT][/FONT]
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man's body is not a literal grain of wheat, that is figurative. Matt 3:12 but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
And I agree that God is a consuming fire, so according to your definition of fire, God would be consumed as well.
you are assuming a figurative sense here, fire is literal unless it specifically says that it is figurative in the context of the passage.
yes, our works will be tried through fire. But it is not the same fire as the fires of hell, but it is just as potent. Anymore than a fire in your fire place is the same fire as the fire in mine.

Deu 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

Luk 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Isa 5:23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Psa 21:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
Psa 21:10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall pay a penalty of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[createdtoworship]

Exactly!
There is no literal satan, God is the most high over all the earth.

Psa 83:13 O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.
14 As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire;
17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

&#8220;How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
&#8216;I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.&#8217;
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
&#8212;Isaiah 14:12-15
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
&#8212;John 8:44
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
&#8212;2 Corinthians 4:4
But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
&#8212;2 Corinthians 11:3
Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
&#8212;Ephesians 6:11-18
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
&#8212;James 4:7
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.
&#8212;1 Peter 5:8-9
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world&#8212;he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, &#8220;Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.
&#8212;Revelation 12:9-10
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
&#8212;Revelation 20:10

Your method of Bible interpretation is fallible and the interpretation is flawed because "The goal of Biblical exegesis is to explore the meaning of the text which then leads to discovering its significance or relevance"

C17: from Gk ex&#275;g&#275;sis, from ex&#275;geisthai 'interpret'. © Oxford University Press, 2004

Which employs proper hermeneutics which I have.

67.95 is the wrong number the correct number is Louw-Nida Lexicon &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965; Section 67.96 &#7936;&#8147;&#948;&#953;&#959;&#962; eternal 67.96 &#945;&#7984;&#8061;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; eternal 67.96

My software punched in the wrong word

The word is used as "an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>fire." in Jude 1:7 The problem you have is not understanding that God is the eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>fire and that His judgement upon Sodom was eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> because His FIRE is everlasting, unquenchable.

It was the FIRE of God
Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Mark 3:29, John 6:68, Acts 13:46, Romans 16:26, 1Timothy 6:12, Titus 1:2, 3:7, Heb 5:9, 6:2, 9:14, 15, 1John 5:11,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#957;>judgment.

1Jn 5:11 &#954;&#945;&#953; &#945;&#965;&#964;&#951; &#949;&#963;&#964;&#953;&#957; &#951; &#956;&#945;&#961;&#964;&#965;&#961;&#953;&#945; &#959;&#964;&#953; &#950;&#969;&#951;&#957; eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#957;>&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#957; &#949;&#948;&#969;&#954;&#949;&#957; &#951;&#956;&#953;&#957; &#959; &#952;&#949;&#959;&#962; &#954;&#945;&#953; &#945;&#965;&#964;&#951; &#951; &#950;&#969;&#951; &#949;&#957; &#964;&#969; &#965;&#953;&#969; &#945;&#965;&#964;&#959;&#965; &#949;&#963;&#964;&#953;&#957;

Jud 1:7

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>fire.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>fire.

They are suffering an example of eternal fire, not the fire of Hell itself.

Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> judgement:

compare eternal judgement to eternal life in the following verses:
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life.

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> life.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;> Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>inheritance.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G166 &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; sempiternal, having beginning, but &#960;&#959; end, age long, forever[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT] Deu 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.


It is the same word for judgement as it is for life, therefore the fires of hell are eternal and they are real fire.

 

[he-man]

&#8220;How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
&#8216;I will ascend to heaven;

Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
&#8212;2 Corinthians 4:4

18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

2 Cor 4:4 But GOD hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world, Theophylact, and Augustine, all plead for the above meaning; and St. Augustine says that it was the opinion of almost all the ancients. (Wakefield, Adam Clarke Commentary)

Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall pay a penalty of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble <H7179>: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. <H7179> straw, chaff, mulch, stubble


Psa 21:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.

Psa 21:10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world&#8212;he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, &#8220;Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.
&#8212;Revelation 12:9-10

Sorry future tense. Revelations are things which must shortly come to pass

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.&#8212;Revelation 20:10

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be consumed <G929> day and night forever and ever.&#8212;Revelation 20:10
<G929 &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#953;> [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]&#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#950;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#953; to rub to test the purity, consumed [/FONT][/FONT]They are in a Lake of Fire but cannot be consumed by the FIRE of God?
What does verse 9 say?

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Deu 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire He shall destroy them, and He shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal <&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#965;>fire.

 

[createdtoworship]

Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

the King of Babylon was the primary fulfillment of the prophecy and Satan was the secondary fulfillment.

Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

not every one in the world is blind physically so you know it's not talking about physical blindness in 1 cor 2 cor 4:4.

Psa 21:10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.
Sorry future tense. Revelations are things which must shortly come to pass

because it's future doesn't mean satan isn't real.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

that fire is for Gog and Magog not satan, satan will be tossed into lake after the beast and the false prophet have already been there a thousand years and NOT CONSUMED. see Revelation 20:10, and Revelation 19:20

"REV 19:20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. "

THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET WERE THROWN IN BEFORE THE THOUSAND YEARS

Revelation 20:7 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison"

THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE STILL IN HELL AFTER A THOUSAND YEARS

"Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are."

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be consumed <G929> day and night forever and ever.—Revelation 20:10 <G929 &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#953;> [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]&#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#950;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#953; to rub to test the purity, consumed [/FONT][/FONT]They are in a Lake of Fire but cannot be consumed by the FIRE of God?
What does verse 9 say?

all of my Bibles say TORMENTED not CONSUMED in revelation 20:10

KJV, YOUNGS LITERAL, NASB, NKJV, NIV, ESV,

all say tormented,

I think your out numbered.

 

[he-man]

the King of Babylon was the primary fulfillment of the prophecy and Satan was the secondary fulfillment.

2 Cor 4:4 But GOD hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world, Theophylact, and Augustine, all plead for the above meaning; and St. Augustine says that it was the opinion of almost all the ancients. (Wakefield, Adam Clarke Commentary)

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

all of my Bibles say TORMENTED not CONSUMED in revelation 20:10

Revelation 20:10
<G929 &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#953;> [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]&#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#950;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#953; to rub to test the purity, consumed [/FONT][/FONT]They are in a Lake of Fire but cannot be consumed by the FIRE of God?

What does verse 9 say?

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Deu 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire He shall destroy them, and He shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

Who has the KEY to the bottomless PIT [the GRAVE] and how is it that he was chained up? Why then didn't the chain melt?

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him <G1210 &#948;&#941;&#969;> a thousand years,

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G1210 &#948;&#941;&#969; tied up, tie, bind, fasten, tie, fetter, enchain, gyve; ( put in chains, shackle) tether[/FONT][/FONT]

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut <G2808> him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2808 &#954;&#955;&#949;&#953;&#948;&#945;&#962; &#922;&#955;&#949;&#953;&#974; fasten shut with a lock[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[createdtoworship]

2 Cor 4:4 But GOD hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world, Theophylact, and Augustine, all plead for the above meaning; and St. Augustine says that it was the opinion of almost all the ancients. (Wakefield, Adam Clarke Commentary)

the ancients all believed in a literal satan

"Regarding the devil, his angels, and the opposing forces, the teaching of church is that these beings do indeed exist."
Origen

"From the devil comes the incentive to sin."
Turtullian

"we do not find that the devil created anything whatsoever. For, indeed, he is himself a creature of God, like the other angels."
Irenaeus

"Because she was in the beginning deceived by the serpent, this Eve became the author of sin. Actually, it was the wicked demon, who also is called Satan, who then spoke to her through the serpent. And he works even to this day in those men who are possessed by him." Theophilus

"The devil goes to all the servants of God to test them. The ones who are full in the faith resist him strongly. So he withdraws from them, having no way to enter them. He goes, then, to the empty. Finding a way of entrance into them,"
Hermas

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

these do not pertain to our discussion
Revelation 20:10
<G929 &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#953;> [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]&#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#950;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#953; to rub to test the purity, consumed [/FONT][/FONT]They are in a Lake of Fire but cannot be consumed by the FIRE of God?

What does verse 9 say?

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

this is talking about Gog and Magog, not the inhabitants of Hell

Deu 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire He shall destroy them, and He shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

these do not pertain to our discussion of Hell

Who has the KEY to the bottomless PIT [the GRAVE] and how is it that he was chained up? Why then didn't the chain melt?

it was a spiritual chain, since satan is a spirit (a fallen angel). Spiritual chains don't melt.

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

You seem adverse to answering QUESTIONS... which is typical of those who support this DASTARDLY and EVIL teaching...

I'll respond in snippets, as it would encompass too much space to take each quote and reply...

the wages of sin is death

Yes, DEATH... not "Hell"...

Where were Adam & Eve "warned" of "Hell" gradyll? Matter of fact, ...WHERE was ANYONE "warned" of "Hell" in the Old Testament?

While you are at it... WHERE is even ONE "warning" witness of "HELL" being taught by the Apostles in the NT?

Seems pretty unfair, no... TOTALLY UNFAIR, ...that GOD would condemn everyone prior to the advent of CHRIST to "Hell" (because of the "wages of sin"), when NO mention of "HELL" was ever made to them!

Also, CHRIST noted to the Apostles to teach "whatosever I have COMMANDED you" -- Matt 28:19 -- so Please, if you would, show the "COMMAND" to preach "HELL"... ...if you CANNOT... then you "preach" vanity of your own "condemning" heart (and GEHENNA tongue) -- James 3:6-10

Peace...

...willieH

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

Continuing...

Hell is for Satan and His demons, but we go there when we are not saved.

In believing this EVIL myth... you parrot others which have not bothered to do an IN DEPTH scrutiny of the SCRIPTURES, while applying REASON to that which they then, ...preach to others...


FIRST --- "HELL" must have PURPOSE, for God says that He will "DO" all His PLEASURE -- Isaiah 46:10 -- If indeed, "HELL" exists... then GOD is the empowerment OF IT, for ALL POWER is of GOD -- Rom 13:1 -- and therefore He is "DOING" (sustaining) it via HIS POWER.


SECOND --- If indeed you imply "HELL" as having a "PURPOSE" ...If so, where is this PURPOSE stated in the WORD (NOT your "opinion")? And what PURPOSE is ACCOMPLISHED by it?

"Hell is for Satan and His demons"

Please note your reference which states this... Where IN SCRIPTURE (NOT your "opinion") does it say that "HELL" is "for satan and his demons"? Matter of fact... where are DEMONS mentioned at all?

It's not God's fault that men refuse to repent. Don’t give up on God because men fail you

Here is where you display a lack of research, or disconsideration of SEVERAL things which are CLEARLY stated in the WORD, bro...


FIRST -- Men "REPENT" ...ONLY... because GOD... leads them to it -- Rom 2:4 -- here is how that SAVING PROCESS, is DONE:


SECOND -- "REPENTENCE" cannot even come forth from a man, until ALL of the following are manifest:


(1) GOD has drawn (dragged in Greek) him to CHRIST -- John 6:44


(2) CHRIST then "AUTHORS FAITH" in them that they may "BELIEVE" (that which HE reveals) -- Heb 12:2


(3) CHRIST then REVEALS them to the Father -- Matt 11:27


(4) The HOLY SPIRIT (YHVH God) then enables them to CONFESS CHRIST -- 1 Cor 12:3 -- which CANNOT be done by them, OF THEMSELVES.

(5) CHRIST then "FINISHES FAITH" in them, thereby SAVING them -- Heb 12:2



The MANY shall ignore this, claiming it is THEY which "accept CHRIST" and teach others that this "acceptance" is the SEAL of their salvation, carelessly teaching others this EVIL and INIQUITOUS fallacy.

CHRIST clearly taught that HE CHOOSES US (those who bring the GOSPEL), ...NOT... the reverse -- John 15:16

CHRIST clearly noted that WE CANNOT do ANYTHING apart from HIM -- John 15:5

ANY claim that SALVATION is accomplished ONLY when a SINNER "makes a decision" for CHRIST, ...is centered upon the EXALTATION, of that SELF "decision", and NOT upon Him and HIS WORK in them... ...instead, ...embracing their "decision" as the most IMPORTANT FACTOR of their SALVATION, ...for WITHOUT it... they are NOT SAVED.


NONE of the SAVING process is accomplished by ANY MAN... for MAN of his own nature is SINFUL, and LOVES the DARKNESS of it.

Until GOD initiates and completes SALVATION in ANY MAN... it remains undone.

Any man which percieves his/her own doing is in ANY WAY responsible for his/her salvation... and then preaches that INIQUITY to others -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 24:5 -- shall abide in their SHAME, ...and as CHRIST PROPHESIED, ...MANY shall come in His name... decieving MANY, with this false and EVIL ...presentation of LOVE -- 1 John 4:8

More to come... and might I add, ...avoiding my questions to you continually, ...only displays the weak positioning of "HELL" proponents (one of which is you)... It has been my experience in the last TEN YEARS, that they cannot (and DO NOT) ANSWER questions... only IGNORE them.

We'll see that which you KNOW, and that which you IGNORE, because you DON'T KNOW.


Peace...


...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

willieH: Hi gradyll...


Yes, DEATH... not "Hell"...

Where were Adam & Eve "warned" of "Hell" gradyll? Matter of fact, ...WHERE was ANYONE "warned" of "Hell" in the Old Testament?


Seems pretty unfair, no... TOTALLY UNFAIR, ...that GOD would condemn everyone prior to the advent of CHRIST to "Hell" (because of the "wages of sin"), when NO mention of "HELL" was ever made to them!

Also, CHRIST noted to the Apostles to teach "whatosever I have COMMANDED you" -- Matt 28:19 -- so Please, if you would, show the "COMMAND" to preach "HELL"... ...if you CANNOT... then you "preach" vanity of your own "condemning" heart (and GEHENNA tongue) -- James 3:6-10

Heaven isn't mentioned in the Old Testament either, so are we to think it unfair that God would send Abraham to heaven?
Galatians 3:6
"Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

While you are at it... WHERE is even ONE "warning" witness of "HELL" being taught by the Apostles in the NT?

The New Jerusalem and the millennial reign are not taught by the apostles at all but prophesied in the old testament. So are we not to believe in them either because the apostles didn't repeat the messages?

You seem adverse to answering QUESTIONS... which is typical of those who support this DASTARDLY and EVIL teaching...

you are the one that never responded to post 41 at all.

 

[createdtoworship]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

Continuing...

In believing this EVIL myth... you parrot others which have not bothered to do an IN DEPTH scrutiny of the SCRIPTURES, while applying REASON to that which they then, ...preach to others...


FIRST --- "HELL" must have PURPOSE, for God says that He will "DO" all His PLEASURE -- Isaiah 46:10 -- If indeed, "HELL" exists... then GOD is the empowerment OF IT, for ALL POWER is of GOD -- Rom 13:1 -- and therefore He is "DOING" (sustaining) it via HIS POWER.


SECOND --- If indeed you imply "HELL" as having a "PURPOSE" ...If so, where is this PURPOSE stated in the WORD (NOT your "opinion")? And what PURPOSE is ACCOMPLISHED by it?

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS (Matthew 25:41). God never intended for one single person to end up in Hell. It is NOT God&#8217;s will that anyone should perish in their sins and go to Hell... &#8220;The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that ALL should come to REPENTANCE&#8221; (2nd Peter 3:9). It is NOT God&#8217;s fault if men and women are stubborn and unwilling to REPENT of their wickedness.

"Hell is for Satan and His demons"

Please note your reference which states this... Where IN SCRIPTURE (NOT your "opinion") does it say that "HELL" is "for satan and his demons"? Matter of fact... where are DEMONS mentioned at all?

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Here is where you display a lack of research, or disconsideration of SEVERAL things which are CLEARLY stated in the WORD, bro...


FIRST -- Men "REPENT" ...ONLY... because GOD... leads them to it -- Rom 2:4 -- here is how that SAVING PROCESS, is DONE:


SECOND -- "REPENTENCE" cannot even come forth from a man, until ALL of the following are manifest:


(1) GOD has drawn (dragged in Greek) him to CHRIST -- John 6:44


(2) CHRIST then "AUTHORS FAITH" in them that they may "BELIEVE" (that which HE reveals) -- Heb 12:2


(3) CHRIST then REVEALS them to the Father -- Matt 11:27


(4) The HOLY SPIRIT (YHVH God) then enables them to CONFESS CHRIST -- 1 Cor 12:3 -- which CANNOT be done by them, OF THEMSELVES.

(5) CHRIST then "FINISHES FAITH" in them, thereby SAVING them -- Heb 12:2

why is it in all the preachings of the Gospel in the New Testament these are not mentioned but repentance is? God won't repent for you.

The MANY shall ignore this, claiming it is THEY which "accept CHRIST" and teach others that this "acceptance" is the SEAL of their salvation, carelessly teaching others this EVIL and INIQUITOUS fallacy.

The words "repent" and "repentance" occur 56 times in the New Testament. It is similar in meaning to the word translated "convert" or "turn", which is also common. The main theme of the preaching of John the Baptist, who prepared the way for the coming of Jesus, was: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near" (Matthew 3:2). The first recorded words of the public ministry of Jesus are also "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near" (Matthew 4:17). Jesus declared that the purpose of his coming and ministry was to call "sinners to repentance" (Luke 5:32). When Jesus sent out his disciples to preach, we read that "they went out and preached that people should repent" (Mark 6:12). After his resurrection from the dead, he declared that "repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations" (Luke 24:47). He declared that unless people repented they would perish, and in order to enforce the message, he repeated it (Luke 13:3,5). In each of Peter's two recorded sermons after the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was given, he told people to repent (Acts 2:38; 3:19). In Paul's recorded sermon to the Athenians he said that God "commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30). He said that the message he declared to both Jews and Greeks was that "they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus" (Acts 20:21). Peter declares that God is "not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). It is obvious from the above references that if Jesus and those he trained knew what they were talking about, none of us will find a meaningful relationship with God unless we do what the Bible calls "repent".

CHRIST clearly taught that HE CHOOSES US (those who bring the GOSPEL), ...NOT... the reverse -- John 15:16

CHRIST clearly noted that WE CANNOT do ANYTHING apart from HIM -- John 15:5

ANY claim that SALVATION is accomplished ONLY when a SINNER "makes a decision" for CHRIST, ...is centered upon the EXALTATION, of that SELF "decision", and NOT upon Him and HIS WORK in them... ...instead, ...embracing their "decision" as the most IMPORTANT FACTOR of their SALVATION, ...for WITHOUT it... they are NOT SAVED.

I don't believe a decision for Christ can save necessarily nor do I believe a simply prayer can save. It's a decision to give God your all. And to repent from darkness to light Believing in the Death and Burial of Christ.

NONE of the SAVING process is accomplished by ANY MAN... for MAN of his own nature is SINFUL, and LOVES the DARKNESS of it.

Until GOD initiates and completes SALVATION in ANY MAN... it remains undone.

Any man which percieves his/her own doing is in ANY WAY responsible for his/her salvation... and then preaches that INIQUITY to others -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 24:5 -- shall abide in their SHAME, ...and as CHRIST PROPHESIED, ...MANY shall come in His name... decieving MANY, with this false and EVIL ...presentation of LOVE -- 1 John 4:8

Your presentation lacks repentance of the sinner, of which man cannot be saved and it is a false Gospel.

More to come... and might I add, ...avoiding my questions to you continually, ...only displays the weak positioning of "HELL" proponents (one of which is you)... It has been my experience in the last TEN YEARS, that they cannot (and DO NOT) ANSWER questions... only IGNORE them.

you have yet to answer my previous post 41

We'll see that which you KNOW, and that which you IGNORE, because you DON'T KNOW.

This comming from one who doesn't understand the conversion of the sinner and repentance to God.

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

Continuing...

Actually I believe the most literal method of Bible interpretation

Mark 9:43 says, "And if your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire."

So, where are all the "one eyed, one footed, one handed" Christians? Hey YOU just said this is LITERAL!

Also... Mark 9:43 is IN CONTEXT with Mark 9:49 ...which "FIRE" includes EVERYONE.

The word "unquenchable" is asbestos in the Greek. According to the enhanced Strong's lexicon, it means "unquenchable, the eternal hell fire to punish the damned."

Ignoring REASON. As well as using words invalidly such as "ETERNAL"... please explain how it is, that GOD has NO BEGINNING...

And concerning the "damned"... you bothered to look up the word "unquenchable", but NOT the word "damned"? ...how conveninent!

Here it is for you: KATAKRINO -- #2632 -- judgment against

That EVIL is "judged against" does not mean that the one which is JUDGED is DESTROYED. Rather, it means that whatever they manifest in their LIFE is due LOSS instead of REWARD -- 1 Cor 3:11-15 -- and the FIRE of JUDGMENT is that which SAVES that one, in spite of the LOSSES incurred.

The JUDGMENT of GOD is a teacher -- Isaiah 26:9 -- IN ALL cases (as he is UNCHANGING) -- and the result of JUDGMENT is the LEARNING of RIGHTEOUSNESS (in ALL CASES), NOT destruction of LIFE.

GOD sent His SON to SAVE the WORLD, ...He did NOT send His Son to condemn the WORLD ("damn" it)... GOD is an UNCHANGING entity -- Mal 3:6 -- so whatever He DOES, ...He ALWAYS DOES.

Did CHRIST succeed or fail to SAVE the WORLD, gradyll? -- 1 John 4:14
Please answer this question for it will be asked over and again until you DO. -- the WORD SAYS that He ...IS... (not could be or might be) the SAVIOR of ALL MEN -- 1 Tim 4:10 -- and that CHRIST taketh AWAY the SIN of the WORLD (not just some of it) -- John 1:29 -- If He IS the SAVIOR of the WORLD, and HE TOOK AWAY the SIN of it, ...than the WORLD is SAVED... irregardless of your UNREASONABLE IGNORANCE of this statement.

As well, here is more REASON...

CHRIST is the very same as His Father... UNCHANGING is His position as well -- James 1:17 -- Heb 13:8 -- so whatever He DOES (NOT condemning), ...He ALWAYS DOES. He did NOT CONDEMN... therefore He shall NOT CONDEMN.

He IS the (unchanging) SAVIOR of the WORLD -- 1 Tim 2:6 -- 1 Tim 4:10 -- not the DESTROYER of it.

There is not GOOD NEWS or PEACE (GOSPEL of PEACE -- Rom 10:15 -- Eph 6:15) in the DESTRUCTION of LIFE or in "HELL"...

There is only PEACE and GOOD NEWS, in the DESTRUCTION of the EVIL, and the SALVATION of ALL, within that removal of EVIL from them.


More later...

PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

you need to simply now prove that my method of Bible interpretation is fallible and why yours is infallible.

Why must the burden of "proof" be on me? How have you PROVEN your belief to be true? ...one thing is for sure... "HELL" is UNREASONABLE, especially in the MEASURE that YOU propose...

This is not about YOU or ME, gradyll! How self serving would that be?

It is about the TRUTH. Neither of us can ever consider ourselves as "infallible"... We are both SINNERS for goodness sake!

REASON -- Isaiah 1:18 -- must accompany TRUTH bro... If your "HELL" is true, then please explain the PEACE in it? ...as well as the MERCY in it? ...as well as the GOOD NEWS in it? ...as well, where is the LOVE in it?

How is PAIN "passed away"... SORROW? TEARS? --- Rev 21:4

If "HELL" is true... what REASONABLE PURPOSE does it serve, gradyll?





More later...

PEACE...


willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

So, where are all the "one eyed, one footed, one handed" Christians? Hey YOU just said this is LITERAL!

just because people don't do it doesn't mean it's not literal. Why would Christ say it if He didn't mean it? He also said

Matthew 5:48
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Also... Mark 9:43 is IN CONTEXT with Mark 9:49 ...which "FIRE" includes EVERYONE.

It can't mean everyone else it would contradict Mark 9:43. The context is that this is the wicked being salted with fire.

Ignoring REASON. As well as using words invalidly such as "ETERNAL"... please explain how it is, that GOD has NO BEGINNING...

God can't have a beginning because God is self existent and self defining without beginning or end.

And concerning the "damned"... you bothered to look up the word "unquenchable", but NOT the word "damned"? ...how conveninent!

Here it is for you: KATAKRINO -- #2632 -- judgment against

there is no better definition of judgement than using God's Holy Word....

2 Peter 3:7
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Matthew 12:36
36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

Matthew 10:15
15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

Matthew 11:22
22 But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.

That EVIL is "judged against" does not mean that the one which is JUDGED is DESTROYED. Rather, it means that whatever they manifest in their LIFE is due LOSS instead of REWARD -- 1 Cor 3:11-15 -- and the FIRE of JUDGMENT is that which SAVES that one, in spite of the LOSSES incurred.

never said 1 cor 3:11-15 was destruction

The JUDGMENT of GOD is a teacher -- Isaiah 26:9 -- IN ALL cases (as he is UNCHANGING) -- and the result of JUDGMENT is the LEARNING of RIGHTEOUSNESS (in ALL CASES), NOT destruction of LIFE.

IN ALL CASES? you gave two verses, two.

GOD sent His SON to SAVE the WORLD, ...He did NOT send His Son to condemn the WORLD ("damn" it)... GOD is an UNCHANGING entity -- Mal 3:6 -- so whatever He DOES, ...He ALWAYS DOES.

what about these verses on JUDGMENT

I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.&#8221;
&#8212;Matthew 12:36-37

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
&#8212;John 5:24

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
&#8212;Hebrews 9:27

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
&#8212;Revelation 20:12-15

Did CHRIST succeed or fail to SAVE the WORLD, gradyll? -- 1 John 4:14
Please answer this question for it will be asked over and again until you DO. -- the WORD SAYS that He ...IS... (not could be or might be) the SAVIOR of ALL MEN -- 1 Tim 4:10 -- and that CHRIST taketh AWAY the SIN of the WORLD (not just some of it) -- John 1:29 -- If He IS the SAVIOR of the WORLD, and HE TOOK AWAY the SIN of it, ...than the WORLD is SAVED... irregardless of your UNREASONABLE IGNORANCE of this statement.

The blood of Jesus was SUFFICIENT to save everyone but will not ACTUALLY save anyone until they repent.

Will God violate our free will do believe?

Please answer this question for it will be asked over and again until you DO.





As well, here is more REASON...

CHRIST is the very same as His Father... UNCHANGING is His position as well -- James 1:17 -- Heb 13:8 -- so whatever He DOES (NOT condemning), ...He ALWAYS DOES. He did NOT CONDEMN... therefore He shall NOT CONDEMN.

He IS the (unchanging) SAVIOR of the WORLD -- 1 Tim 2:6 -- 1 Tim 4:10 -- not the DESTROYER of it.

There is not GOOD NEWS or PEACE (GOSPEL of PEACE -- Rom 10:15 -- Eph 6:15) in the DESTRUCTION of LIFE or in "HELL"...

There is only PEACE and GOOD NEWS, in the DESTRUCTION of the EVIL, and the SALVATION of ALL, within that removal of EVIL from them.

Jesus taught eternal punishment as well as eternal life (Matthew 25:46); He spoke of the cursed as well as the blessed (Matthew 25:34, 41); He said there is a Heaven and a Hell (Luke 10:20; Matthew 10:28); He talked about the saved and the lost (John 10:9; Luke 19:10).

 

[he-man]

the ancients all believed in a literal satan

But the Ancients did not believe that 2 Cor 4:4 was a reference to a satan:
But GOD hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world

these do not pertain to our discussion

It says they perish, it does not say tormented or punished.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish

all of my Bibles say TORMENTED not CONSUMED in revelation 20:10

If they were consumed or eaten away (verse 9)they would not exist.

Revelation 20:9
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)


9-10 They came up and spread over the breadth of the earth; they encircled the army of the saints defending the beloved city. But fire came down from the sky and consumed them.

Revelation 20:9 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) 9 They came up over the surface of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

Revelation 20:9Amplified Bible (AMP)
9And they swarmed up over the broad plain of the earth and encircled the fortress (camp) of God's people (the saints) and the beloved city; but fire descended from heaven and consumed them. [II Kings 1:10-12; Ezek. 38:2, 22.]


<G929 &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#953;> [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]&#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#950;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#953; to rub to test the purity, consumed [/FONT][/FONT]They are in a Lake of Fire but cannot be consumed by the FIRE of God?

NOW, What does verse 9 say?

this is talking about Gog and Magog, not the inhabitants of Hell

Magog is a general name for northern nations of Japheth&#8217;s posterity

9 And they [northern nations] went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and consumed them.

Eze 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog,

these do not pertain to our discussion of Hell

????Read Rev 20:9 again and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them

Deu 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire He shall destroy them, and He shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

it was a spiritual chain, since satan is a spirit (a fallen angel). Spiritual chains don't melt.

No, it was death that was put on hold for a thousand years! Where did you come up with the idea that satan is a spirit ??
Isa 14:12 is a lamentation against the King of Babylon and Revlations 4:1 says "things which must take place hereafter", not something that happened before the time of John.

 

[createdtoworship]

But the Ancients did not believe that 2 Cor 4:4 was a reference to a satan:
But GOD hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world
It says they perish, it does not say tormented or punished.

Why would God blind the minds of all the unbelievers? when God is not willing that ANY should perish? 2 Peter3:9

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish
If they were consumed or eaten away (verse 9)they would not exist.

Revelation 20:9
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)


9-10 They came up and spread over the breadth of the earth; they encircled the army of the saints defending the beloved city. But fire came down from the sky and consumed them.

Revelation 20:9 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) 9 They came up over the surface of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

Revelation 20:9Amplified Bible (AMP)
9And they swarmed up over the broad plain of the earth and encircled the fortress (camp) of God's people (the saints) and the beloved city; but fire descended from heaven and consumed them. [II Kings 1:10-12; Ezek. 38:2, 22.]

Gog and Magog were consumed from off the face of the earth, because of their rebellion with satan against the Holy city. Again this is not speaking of the inhabitants of hell but a rebellion that happens right after the millenium. (perhaps the gentile nations of east and west)

<G929 &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#953;> [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]&#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#950;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#946;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#951;&#963;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#953; to rub to test the purity, consumed [/FONT][/FONT]They are in a Lake of Fire but cannot be consumed by the FIRE of God?
</H3>

that fire is for Gog and Magog not satan, satan will be tossed into lake after the beast and the false prophet have already been there a thousand years and NOT CONSUMED. see Revelation 20:10, and Revelation 19:20

"REV 19:20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. "

THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET WERE THROWN IN BEFORE THE THOUSAND YEARS

Revelation 20:7 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison"

THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE STILL IN HELL AFTER A THOUSAND YEARS

"Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are."

NOW, What does verse 9 say?
this is talking about Gog and Magog, not the inhabitants of Hell

Magog is a general name for northern nations of Japheth&#8217;s posterity[/QUOTE]

actually more accurately describing a gentile invasion of the Holy City.

[/SIZE]????Read Rev 20:9 again and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them

fire from heaven and the fire of HELL are different fires.

"Satan is a spirit"

the ancients all believed in a literal satan

"Regarding the devil, his angels, and the opposing forces, the teaching of church is that these beings do indeed exist."
Origen

"From the devil comes the incentive to sin."
Turtullian

"we do not find that the devil created anything whatsoever. For, indeed, he is himself a creature of God, like the other angels."
Irenaeus

"Because she was in the beginning deceived by the serpent, this Eve became the author of sin. Actually, it was the wicked demon, who also is called Satan, who then spoke to her through the serpent. And he works even to this day in those men who are possessed by him." Theophilus

"The devil goes to all the servants of God to test them. The ones who are full in the faith resist him strongly. So he withdraws from them, having no way to enter them. He goes, then, to the empty. Finding a way of entrance into them,"
Hermas

 

[IndieVisible]

Gradyll borrowed Augustine's argument from Matt 25:46, that since aionian zoen is eternal life and life is conscious, then aionian kolasin has to be eternal conscious torment. He says "See, they both say aionian, so they are both eternal and conscious". Never mind that I keep telling these people that death is also eternal.

They think that because the Moment Death Occurs is one moment in time that death is not really eternal. People don't experience death eternally, so they think it isn't really eternal. It's the standard confusion, they want eternal punishment to mean eternally punishing.

Death is what naturally happens as a result of sin. God provides a way out of the natural consequence of sin, so we can have eternal life.

How do you know death is eternal? Can the soul be destroyed? Ended? What source do you base that on? The body can die, but not the soul or spirit

I've often wondered why would God punish us for eternity? Wouldn't be more kind and loving to just take us out of our misery by annihilating us? Wouldn't total annihilation be better then hell? Unless of course our spirits can not be annihilated. Then only separation is possible and the torture/punishment is brought on by us. The eternal fire may be symbolic for the feeling we may experience knowing we will be separated from those we love and from God and Heaven for eternity.

Again, I am just wondering how you arrive that death is eternal?

I am reminded of what Jesus said, it would be better if we had a milestone tied around our neck and was thrown in a lake then face Judgment. As if saying if only we could just die, it would be better then what we face.

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

You have made it pretty obvious that you intend to evade questions asked of you.

Your replies are more than easy to refute as they contain NO REASON whatsoever... but you have used up enough of my time. Anyone observing and willing to research has more than enough evidence of the EVIL of your teachings...

Also... I will be on vacation for a week... I not shall further address you and your "HELL" gospel... You are welcome to your beloved negativity... But be it KNOWN, that it is YOU which has been warned (and not given ear).

Continue to MISREPRESENT LOVE, REASON and PEACE, which IS the GOSPEL... and IS the WORK of God (not "Hell"), ...and your shame (as with your religious brethren which are MANY), shall be of your own doing. -- Matt 7:22-23


Peace...


...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

willieH: Hi gradyll...

You have made it pretty obvious that you intend to evade questions asked of you.

Your replies are more than easy to refute as they contain NO REASON whatsoever... but you have used up enough of my time. Anyone observing and willing to research has more than enough evidence of the EVIL of your teachings...

Also... I will be on vacation for a week... I not shall further address you and your "HELL" gospel... You are welcome to your beloved negativity... But be it KNOWN, that it is YOU which has been warned (and not given ear).

Continue to MISREPRESENT LOVE, REASON and PEACE, which IS the GOSPEL... and IS the WORK of God (not "Hell"), ...and your shame (as with your religious brethren which are MANY), shall be of your own doing. -- Matt 7:22-23


Peace...


...willieH

YOU MUST HAVE EARS TO HEAR TO UNDERSTAND TRUE DOCTRINE

Matthew 13:40-43\
New King James Version (NKJV)
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[Timothew]

How do you know death is eternal? Can the soul be destroyed? Ended? What source do you base that on? The body can die, but not the soul or spirit

I've often wondered why would God punish us for eternity? Wouldn't be more kind and loving to just take us out of our misery by annihilating us? Wouldn't total annihilation be better then hell? Unless of course our spirits can not be annihilated. Then only separation is possible and the torture/punishment is brought on by us. The eternal fire may be symbolic for the feeling we may experience knowing we will be separated from those we love and from God and Heaven for eternity.

Again, I am just wondering how you arrive that death is eternal?

I am reminded of what Jesus said, it would be better if we had a milestone tied around our neck and was thrown in a lake then face Judgment. As if saying if only we could just die, it would be better then what we face.

Thank you for posting.
Ezekiel 18:20 says "The soul that sins is the one that shall die".
In Matthew 10:28 Jesus says "Rather fear the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna"

These verses show that a "soul" can die.
But what we really need to understand is what a soul is. The greek word that is translated soul is &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052;&#957; (psuchen or psychen) or &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052; (psyche).
What it means is the person himself. Pysche is the greek term for the hebrew word "nephesh" which means any breathing person.

Spirit is pneuma, the exact same word the greeks use for wind and breath.
GGod breathed His Spirit into us. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says the spirit returns to Gos who gave it. If some rejects God, their spirit, the breath of life in them can't return to God to be eventually be replaced in their resurrected body, so they just die.

(p.s. LutheranMafia and Gradyll, don't expect me to respond to any comments you have.)