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Let's Talk About Hell (3)

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Christ will sit on the throne of DAVID, a physical throne. That was the Davidic kingdom that was on earth. Not spiritual. The Kingdom is yet to come the Bible says, meaning that Christ's kingdom will come in the future. It is coming FROM heaven. But we will rule and reign for a thousand years on the earth during this Throne of DAvid where Jesus will reside.

This temple has to do with this physical place, not spiritual. All the verses you speak of are speaking either of the temple in Jerusalem the was destroyed in 90 A.D. I think or speaking of the spiritual temple of the church. But the resurrected davidic kingdom is yet future, it's a prophecy.


Yes David's throne was a physical throne it was located on Mt Zion and it has been physically gone for I believe 3,000 years.

The Tabernacle of David will be far more then a physical throne for it will be a spiritual throne in the ages to come. Jesus is not setting on a physical throne in heaven on the physical right physical hands of a physical God. He is setting on a spiritual throne.

I really think you think that which is spiritual is not real. The natural is what is not real for the natural realm is the realm of sin and death.

Yes David's thone as well as the Tabernacle of David were once very physical. The Tabernacle of David in the ages to come is not going to be a physical Tabernacle on a Physical Mt Zion in a physical New Jerusalem.

God is speaking of something very spiritual and to understand that which is spiritual we need to have a physical message which we can relate to so God can open up what he is saying in the realm of the spirit.

The lamb of God is not a baby sheep eating grass in a pasture on some farm. We have all learn what a lamb is not by some physical observation but we learn by searching God’s Word to see what God is trying to say to us spiritual in our spirit not our carnal religious mindset. We learn about the Passover lamb, the feast of Passover, later Calvary and he blood shed for our sins. We learn that the lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth so God had a savior long before he had a sinner.

All of these give us a spiritual picture something other then this baby physical lamb that lives on a farm.
 
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

example NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)



The Tabernacle of David was NEVER the temple but a tent which the ark of God was placed by David until Solomon temple was built. This Tabernacle of David was even more relevant then the throne of David.

David NEVER had a temple. Solomon built the temple. But David a type of Christ lived at Mt Zion with the Ark of God as I am going to put it right there on his back porch in a tent.

The Ark was at place for it should have been at Shiloh but no it was not for a reason it was at Mt Zion which was totally out of place for it should of been in the Holy of Holies.

Back to the temple message which is a spiritual message for every piece of furniture, every measurement, every covering had a deep hidden message so we can begin to see the Great mysteries hidden from the church realm.

What is the ark? It was the glory of God in the OT in other words Jesus.

Jesus is the ark. Lot of symbolism here. In stead of the Ark being in its proper place in the Holy of holies, surrounded by the Holy place and then the outer court it was at Mt. Zion.

Every day David walked in the presence of that ark. No mention of Aaronic priest, or the high priest or all the furniture and animal sacrifices but God’s glory where David ruled and reigned.

It is the same as having the ark with in us. For this is where God’s true temple is.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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createdtoworship

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Yes David's throne was a physical throne it was located on Mt Zion and it has been physically gone for I believe 3,000 years.

The Tabernacle of David will be far more then a physical throne for it will be a spiritual throne in the ages to come. Jesus is not setting on a physical throne in heaven on the physical right physical hands of a physical God. He is setting on a spiritual throne.

I really think you think that which is spiritual is not real. The natural is what is not real for the natural realm is the realm of sin and death.

Yes David's thone as well as the Tabernacle of David were once very physical. The Tabernacle of David in the ages to come is not going to be a physical Tabernacle on a Physical Mt Zion in a physical New Jerusalem.

God is speaking of something very spiritual and to understand that which is spiritual we need to have a physical message which we can relate to so God can open up what he is saying in the realm of the spirit.

The lamb of God is not a baby sheep eating grass in a pasture on some farm. We have all learn what a lamb is not by some physical observation but we learn by searching God’s Word to see what God is trying to say to us spiritual in our spirit not our carnal religious mindset. We learn about the Passover lamb, the feast of Passover, later Calvary and he blood shed for our sins. We learn that the lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth so God had a savior long before he had a sinner.

All of these give us a spiritual picture something other then this baby physical lamb that lives on a farm.
 
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

example NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)



The Tabernacle of David was NEVER the temple but a tent which the ark of God was placed by David until Solomon temple was built. This Tabernacle of David was even more relevant then the throne of David.

David NEVER had a temple. Solomon built the temple. But David a type of Christ lived at Mt Zion with the Ark of God as I am going to put it right there on his back porch in a tent.

The Ark was at place for it should have been at Shiloh but no it was not for a reason it was at Mt Zion which was totally out of place for it should of been in the Holy of Holies.

Back to the temple message which is a spiritual message for every piece of furniture, every measurement, every covering had a deep hidden message so we can begin to see the Great mysteries hidden from the church realm.

What is the ark? It was the glory of God in the OT in other words Jesus.

Jesus is the ark. Lot of symbolism here. In stead of the Ark being in its proper place in the Holy of holies, surrounded by the Holy place and then the outer court it was at Mt. Zion.

Every day David walked in the presence of that ark. No mention of Aaronic priest, or the high priest or all the furniture and animal sacrifices but God’s glory where David ruled and reigned.

It is the same as having the ark with in us. For this is where God’s true temple is.
 
 
 
 
 
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the throne of DAVID will be real, because it was a real kingdom. It is inconsistent to see a physical kingdom continued on into a spiritual kingdom. The promise is to DAVIDS children. Are they spiritual kids too? Hardly. Besides the kingdom will be from one of DAVIDS seed, who would reign. At that point it could be anybody, but we know now it was MESSIAH who will take the physical kingdom of Israel and show them how to rule the earth physically and show them how it is done.

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
"Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
"My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
"His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven
."If his children [plural] forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
"If they [plural] break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
"Then will I visit their [plural] transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
"Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
"Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
"His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
"It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. (Psalm 89:3-4, 27-
37).
"Thus saith YHWH; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that
there should not be day and night in their season;
"Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to
reign upon his throne...

"As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply
the seed of David my servant...
Moreover the word of YHWH came to Jeremiah, saying,
"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath
chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more
a nation before them.
"Thus saith YHWH; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances
of heaven and earth;
"Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed
to be rulers [PLURAL] over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity
["fortunes" NASB] to return, and have mercy on them" (Jeremiah 33:20-26).
"Ought ye not to know that YHWH God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever,
even to him and to his sons
[pluarl] by a covenant of salt?" [margin "perpetual covenant"] " (2 Chron
13:5).
 
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the throne of DAVID will be real, because it was a real kingdom. It is inconsistent to see a physical kingdom continued on into a spiritual kingdom. The promise is to DAVIDS children. Are they spiritual kids too? Hardly. Besides the kingdom will be from one of DAVIDS seed, who would reign. At that point it could be anybody, but we know now it was MESSIAH who will take the physical kingdom of Israel and show them how to rule the earth physically and show them how it is done.

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
"Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
"My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
"His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven
."If his children [plural] forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
"If they [plural] break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
"Then will I visit their [plural] transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
"Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
"Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
"His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
"It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. (Psalm 89:3-4, 27-
37).
"Thus saith YHWH; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that
there should not be day and night in their season;
"Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to
reign upon his throne...
"As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply
the seed of David my servant...
Moreover the word of YHWH came to Jeremiah, saying,
"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath
chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more
a nation before them.
"Thus saith YHWH; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances
of heaven and earth;
"Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed
to be rulers [PLURAL] over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity
["fortunes" NASB] to return, and have mercy on them" (Jeremiah 33:20-26).
"Ought ye not to know that YHWH God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever,
even to him and to his sons [pluarl] by a covenant of salt?" [margin "perpetual covenant"] " (2 Chron
13:5).

Physical is the death realm. Physical people die. It is the realm of sin and death. Jesus is not physical now not will be ever be physical.

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

We will have a new glorious body

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
 
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createdtoworship

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Physical is the death realm. Physical people die. It is the realm of sin and death. Jesus is not physical now not will be ever be physical.

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

We will have a new glorious body

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what about His 2nd coming, will He be only a spirit? Besides at the upper room discourse Jesus asked thomas to put his hand in his wound on his side. He was physical there too.
 
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createdtoworship

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I know what orthadoxy is.

Babylon is a golden cup in the hands of the Lord. God uses the religious systems. God calls men not systems.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God calls groups of people in the Bible...
Congregations of people are called in the scripture. We are called to unite, and serve together. Thats what congregation means. look up eclesia in the scripture it's always a group of believers together. The Greek term ἐκκλησία that in its appearances in the New Testament is usually translated as "church" basically means "assembly".[1] It appears in 2 verses of the canonical Gospel of Matthew, 24 verses of the Acts of the Apostles, 58 verses of the letters of Paul the Apostle (including therefore the earliest instances of its use in relation to a Christian body), 2 of the Letter to the Hebrews, 1 of the Epistle of James, 3 of the Third Epistle of John, and 19 of the Book of Revelation. It's also what organized religion is (an ecclesia.)
 
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Ed Bana

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This commonly accepted doctrines of professing Christianity cannot be found in the Bible?

There is no mention whatever of such things as Christmas, Easter, the "immaculate conception" of Mary, mass, popes, church buildings, the Trinity, or - the "second coming"! The Lord's people should purge their conversation, purify their terminology, and remove from their consciousness the multitude of non-scriptural and extra-biblical expressions carried over from Mystery Babylon. We have both parroted and coined a great many unscriptural terms that have been so misleading and have led us astray in our understanding of the scriptures and the wonderful plan of God.


The second coming of Christ is not a biblical phrase.
It has no scriptural warrant.
It is my deep conviction that it should be discarded altogether, for it is the cause of much confusion of thought and not a little positive error.

Many texts speak of the coming of Christ, the coming of the Son of man, the coming of the Lord or similar phrases.

The word "second" never occurs with a word that can be translated "coming."


what about His 2nd coming, will He be only a spirit?
 
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createdtoworship

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This commonly accepted doctrines of professing Christianity cannot be found in the Bible?

There is no mention whatever of such things as Christmas, Easter, the "immaculate conception" of Mary, mass, popes, church buildings, the Trinity, or - the "second coming"! The Lord's people should purge their conversation, purify their terminology, and remove from their consciousness the multitude of non-scriptural and extra-biblical expressions carried over from Mystery Babylon. We have both parroted and coined a great many unscriptural terms that have been so misleading and have led us astray in our understanding of the scriptures and the wonderful plan of God.


The second coming of Christ is not a biblical phrase.
It has no scriptural warrant.
It is my deep conviction that it should be discarded altogether, for it is the cause of much confusion of thought and not a little positive error.

Many texts speak of the coming of Christ, the coming of the Son of man, the coming of the Lord or similar phrases.

The word "second" never occurs with a word that can be translated "coming."

never mind the second coming then, thats for another day.

but Jesus being physical was an important point the Bible makes

Besides at the upper room discourse Jesus asked thomas to put his hand in his wound on his side. He was physical there.
 
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God is so serious out his out called that is what the word church means. The out called or called out..

ecclesia” Greek called out


God calls men not systems. The broad way that leads destruction is religion; men do not follow Christ they follow their Pastor/Priest or Pope, their denomination their system ; not God’s anointing. Church is a Greek Word “ecclesia” which simply means the called out. There is a true Church and a false Church; Baby lon is the false church; while the true Church is not a building, a system, denomination but Christ with in us, the hope of Glory.

Matt 7:13-15
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. KJV

Many years ago God called me out of religion and I have never turned back; there are many men I feel God has given an anointing to and I have I follow their ministry. Religion is shallow and limits God to what ever understanding. God has called thousands of people out of Baby lon and has given them this very message.

Heb. 13:13Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach

Revelation 18:3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man,
saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let
us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.



Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

God uses Baby lon as shown by the verse above; but there is so much more.
 

I know what orthadoxy is.

Babylon is a golden cup in the hands of the Lord. God uses the religious systems. God calls men not systems.





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God calls groups of people in the Bible...
Congregations of people are called in the scripture. We are called to unite, and serve together. Thats what congregation means. look up eclesia in the scripture it's always a group of believers together. The Greek term ἐκκλησία that in its appearances in the New Testament is usually translated as "church" basically means "assembly".[1] It appears in 2 verses of the canonical Gospel of Matthew, 24 verses of the Acts of the Apostles, 58 verses of the letters of Paul the Apostle (including therefore the earliest instances of its use in relation to a Christian body), 2 of the Letter to the Hebrews, 1 of the Epistle of James, 3 of the Third Epistle of John, and 19 of the Book of Revelation. It's also what organized religion is (an ecclesia.)
 
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Jesus Physical body had died on Calvary. There was nothing physical or carnal in that new body Jesus walked in after Calvary. He walked thought walls, he disappeared,

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

never mind the second coming then, thats for another day.

but Jesus being physical was an important point the Bible makes

Besides at the upper room discourse Jesus asked thomas to put his hand in his wound on his side. He was physical there.
 
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createdtoworship

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God is so serious out his out called that is what the word church means. The out called or called out..

ecclesia” Greek called out


God calls men not systems. The broad way that leads destruction is religion; men do not follow Christ they follow their Pastor/Priest or Pope, their denomination their system ; not God’s anointing. Church is a Greek Word “ecclesia” which simply means the called out. There is a true Church and a false Church; Baby lon is the false church; while the true Church is not a building, a system, denomination but Christ with in us, the hope of Glory.

Matt 7:13-15
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. KJV

Many years ago God called me out of religion and I have never turned back; there are many men I feel God has given an anointing to and I have I follow their ministry. Religion is shallow and limits God to what ever understanding. God has called thousands of people out of Baby lon and has given them this very message.

Heb. 13:13Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach

Revelation 18:3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man,
saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let
us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.



Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

God uses Baby lon as shown by the verse above; but there is so much more.
 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the word ecclesia did not mean "called out ones" in the first century but rather held reference to a general assembly of believers who, most frequently, met together in homes...

Hebrews 12:23 - King James Bible
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

church means ecclesia and it is used in conjuction with general assembly
 
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You know something. You are the Church, it is with in you.

So am I. That is the true ecclicia not some man made system that calls it self the church little c.

This is the Church that God will find with out spot or wrinkle.

Not some man made system that controls God's Word to their limited understanding. Reference to Jesus with the Samaritan women at the well. He knew that Jews did not often speak to Samaritans, but He said to her, "Please give me a drink." The woman saw from His looks and His dress that He was a Jew, and she said to Him, "How is it that you, who are a Jew, ask drink of me, a Samaritan woman?" Jesus answered her, "If you know what God's free gift is, and if you knew who it is that says to you, Give me a drink, you would ask Him to give you living water, and He would give it to you."


She said to Him, "Sir, you have nothing to draw water with, and the well is deep.

Where can you get that living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who drank from this well?" "Whoever drinks of this water, " said Jesus, "shall thirst again; but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him, shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up unto everlasting life." "Sir," said the woman, "give me some of this water of yours, so that I will not thirst any more nor come all the way to this well.


She saw that there was a man who knew what a stranger could not know. She felt that God had spoken to Him and she said, "Sir, I see that you are a prophet of God. Tell me whether our people or the Jews are right. Our fathers have worshipped on this mountain. The Jews say that Jerusalem is the place where men should go to worship.

Now, which of these is the right place?" Her concern, and the major issue of the moment for her, had to do with the specific proper location for worship. In this respect, this woman differed little from the multitudes in this hour who ask, "Where should we worship? What church should we attend? What ministry should we submit to?"


The Lord did not dodge her question. Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe ME, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."

The time would come, said the Lord, when both "this mountain" and "Jerusalem", as well as any other geographical locality, or appointed structure, would be considered completely irrelevant as a condition to worship.

 
 
The Samaritans for generations had worshiped God in Mount Gerizim and the Jews had for generations worshiped in their temple in Jerusalem. Each scorned the other's place of worship and Jesus is here speaking to the woman of Samaria and telling her than PLACES ARE OF NO CONSEQUENCE.

God is a spirit - and mountain worship will not be acceptable. Neither will temple worship in Jerusalem be acceptable to God. If man is to worship God, then man must worship God AS HE IS, and not as man thinks He is or where man thinks He may be.

Carnality and the natural man attempt to bring God into a realm that will enable them to see God according to their belief. Therefore some worship idols or images of metal, wood, or stone.

Others worship the sun or the elements.

Some must go to a building to worship God and others must have all manner of rites and ceremonies.

Some must have a Jesus in a body of flesh, before they can worship God.

But Jesus said that God was seeking a people who would worship God in the realm and sphere in which God is - in Spirit and Truth. Worshiping a physical location is not spiritual worship.



Anyone who claims to be able to worship God at any time and in any place becomes a heretic to the organized religionists. For, if the places of worship were taken away, and men truly worshiped in spirit and in truth, the whole religious system would fall apart.

There would be no reason for it to continue. The whole religious system is builded upon have a "place" for people to come to so that the works of men may continue to be carried out.

Again, let me affirm that God does indeed gather His people together, but such gathering together is UNTO HIM, and the place and order becomes inconsequential. It is when the place becomes important, it is when preachers and organizations demand your attendance, your submission, and your allegiance to them and their program, asserting that you cannot make it in to heaven, or the Kingdom, or sonship, or immortality apart from their teaching, their method, their order, their program - it is there that worship in spirit and in truth is usurped by worship in "this mountain" or in "Jerusalem."




God is so serious out his out called that is what the word church means. The out called or called out..

ecclesia” Greek called out


God calls men not systems. The broad way that leads destruction is religion; men do not follow Christ they follow their Pastor/Priest or Pope, their denomination their system ; not God’s anointing. Church is a Greek Word “ecclesia” which simply means the called out. There is a true Church and a false Church; Baby lon is the false church; while the true Church is not a building, a system, denomination but Christ with in us, the hope of Glory.

Matt 7:13-15
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. KJV

Many years ago God called me out of religion and I have never turned back; there are many men I feel God has given an anointing to and I have I follow their ministry. Religion is shallow and limits God to what ever understanding. God has called thousands of people out of Baby lon and has given them this very message.

Heb. 13:13Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach

Revelation 18:3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man,
saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let
us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.



Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

God uses Baby lon as shown by the verse above; but there is so much more.
 



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the word ecclesia did not mean "called out ones" in the first century but rather held reference to a general assembly of believers who, most frequently, met together in homes...

Hebrews 12:23 - King James Bible
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

church means ecclesia and it is used in conjuction with general assembly
 
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createdtoworship

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You know something. You are the Church, it is with in you.

So am I. That is the true ecclicia not some man made system that calls it self the church little c.

This is the Church that God will find with out spot or wrinkle.

Not some man made system that controls God's Word to their limited understanding. Reference to Jesus with the Samaritan women at the well. He knew that Jews did not often speak to Samaritans, but He said to her, "Please give me a drink." The woman saw from His looks and His dress that He was a Jew, and she said to Him, "How is it that you, who are a Jew, ask drink of me, a Samaritan woman?" Jesus answered her, "If you know what God's free gift is, and if you knew who it is that says to you, Give me a drink, you would ask Him to give you living water, and He would give it to you."


She said to Him, "Sir, you have nothing to draw water with, and the well is deep.

Where can you get that living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who drank from this well?" "Whoever drinks of this water, " said Jesus, "shall thirst again; but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him, shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up unto everlasting life." "Sir," said the woman, "give me some of this water of yours, so that I will not thirst any more nor come all the way to this well.


She saw that there was a man who knew what a stranger could not know. She felt that God had spoken to Him and she said, "Sir, I see that you are a prophet of God. Tell me whether our people or the Jews are right. Our fathers have worshipped on this mountain. The Jews say that Jerusalem is the place where men should go to worship.

Now, which of these is the right place?" Her concern, and the major issue of the moment for her, had to do with the specific proper location for worship. In this respect, this woman differed little from the multitudes in this hour who ask, "Where should we worship? What church should we attend? What ministry should we submit to?"


The Lord did not dodge her question. Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe ME, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."

The time would come, said the Lord, when both "this mountain" and "Jerusalem", as well as any other geographical locality, or appointed structure, would be considered completely irrelevant as a condition to worship.

 
 
The Samaritans for generations had worshiped God in Mount Gerizim and the Jews had for generations worshiped in their temple in Jerusalem. Each scorned the other's place of worship and Jesus is here speaking to the woman of Samaria and telling her than PLACES ARE OF NO CONSEQUENCE.

God is a spirit - and mountain worship will not be acceptable. Neither will temple worship in Jerusalem be acceptable to God. If man is to worship God, then man must worship God AS HE IS, and not as man thinks He is or where man thinks He may be.

Carnality and the natural man attempt to bring God into a realm that will enable them to see God according to their belief. Therefore some worship idols or images of metal, wood, or stone.

Others worship the sun or the elements.

Some must go to a building to worship God and others must have all manner of rites and ceremonies.

Some must have a Jesus in a body of flesh, before they can worship God.

But Jesus said that God was seeking a people who would worship God in the realm and sphere in which God is - in Spirit and Truth. Worshiping a physical location is not spiritual worship.



Anyone who claims to be able to worship God at any time and in any place becomes a heretic to the organized religionists. For, if the places of worship were taken away, and men truly worshiped in spirit and in truth, the whole religious system would fall apart.

There would be no reason for it to continue. The whole religious system is builded upon have a "place" for people to come to so that the works of men may continue to be carried out.

Again, let me affirm that God does indeed gather His people together, but such gathering together is UNTO HIM, and the place and order becomes inconsequential. It is when the place becomes important, it is when preachers and organizations demand your attendance, your submission, and your allegiance to them and their program, asserting that you cannot make it in to heaven, or the Kingdom, or sonship, or immortality apart from their teaching, their method, their order, their program - it is there that worship in spirit and in truth is usurped by worship in "this mountain" or in "Jerusalem."





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If church was within us we wouldn't need to assemble together for

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Hebrews 10:25 (King James Version)
25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
 
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gradyll-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If church was within us we wouldn't need to assemble together for

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Hebrews 10:25 (King James Version)
25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

You are correct.


NOT FORSAKING THE ASSEMBLING OF OURSELVES TOGETHER
In Hebrews 10:25 were are admonished as follows:

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching."

That this is speaking of believers congregating together to worship and study God’s Word, there can be no doubt. However, there is a much deeper meaning to this "assembling" that few have ever seen.

"The Greek word for ‘assembling’ is EPISUNAGOGE. The word, literally, is a verb meaning to synagogue. It is a compound of the Greek prefix EPI with the word SUNAGOGE from which we get our transliterated English word Synagogue. EPI means super – imposition – that which is above, higher than, highest, upon. SUNAGOGE means a meeting, assembly, or gathering. Putting these two words together, EPI-SUNAGOGE means THE ABOVE SYNAGOGUE, THE HIGHER MEETING, THE HIGHEST ASSEMBLY, THE HIGHER-THAN-ALL-GATHERINGS!

It bespeaks of something far greater than merely collecting so many breathing bodies together in one place.

It is a meeting in a higher realm, on a higher plane, in the high places of the Spirit, and in the heights of Truth. It is a gathering together in a dimension above. It indicates an assembling IN THE SPIRIT…"

……..
“WE are to episunagoge (assemble) on a higher plane, in a higher realm, in a spiritual assembly, IN THE SPIRIT!”

“Amazing, isn’t it. Jesus "assembled [Gk: episunagoge]" with His Father BY HIMSELF, ALONE. We can do the same. Not just on Sunday morning or Wednesday evening, with a crowd, in a building, but on every day of the week, and we can do it while we are ALONE.”
 
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underheaven

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my verses debunk your verses

Jesus declared on the cross, "It is finished!"
John 19:30

Ye are complete in Him." Paul said.
Colossians 2:10

The sacrifice was made for us "once for all ... forever ..."
Hebrews 9:11, 12, 25-28; 10:9-14
1 Peter 3:18

This is fairy story stuff !
No wonder there are so many atheists around.
And anyway .Who says that just because you quote from the bible that you are a Christian ? What is it about you, apart from a quote here or
there that distinquishes you from a heathen ? :o
 
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he-man

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gradyll-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are correct.NOT FORSAKING THE ASSEMBLING OF OURSELVES TOGETHER
In Hebrews 10:25 were are admonished as follows:

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching."
Some good points, G1997 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]επισυναγαγω gather together[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][/FONT][/FONT]
however Jesus mentions ecclesia twice as <congregation; G1577> and 112 times in the NT.

Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this (mass of) rock I will build my <congregation; G1577> and the gates of Gehenna shall not prevail against it.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
 
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Ed Bana

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Some good points, G1997 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]&#949;&#960;&#953;&#963;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#947;&#945;&#947;&#969; gather together[/FONT][/FONT]

however Jesus mentions ecclesia twice as <congregation; G1577> and 112 times in the NT.

Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this (mass of) rock I will build my <congregation; G1577> and the gates of Gehenna shall not prevail against it.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Amen.
That is what the Tabernacle of David is. The Holy of holies. Do you understand this?

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
 
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he-man

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Amen.
That is what the Tabernacle of David is. The Holy of holies. Do you understand this?

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us

Ac 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Ac 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
 
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Ed Bana

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You nor your letter tht killeth answered my question????

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us

Ac 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Ac 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
 
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