Let's Talk About Hell (3)

[createdtoworship]

Yes it is. By his spirit God draws all men. I am not drawing anyone aways I am debating you on a forum. This is where the rubber meets the road.

God is not calling the whole world now.

1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)


It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.​

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what you would say at this point is the "letter killeth" and ignore all these verses, so I can do the same right?

besides the weymouths translation has been proven innacurate

http://www.dtl.org/versions/article/weymouth.htm

 

[Ed Bana]

I never ignore any verses. You just admitted you did. There are many verses you need to search out the true meaning because they have been mistranslated by bias orthodox interpeter. But never do I ignore verses. Give me one example. Weymouths translation is far more accurate then the bias KJV.

You just gave me two example you ignored.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (KJV)

Yes it is. By his spirit God draws all men. I am not drawing anyone aways I am debating you on a forum. This is where the rubber meets the road.

God is not calling the whole world now.

1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)​

It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.​

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what you would say at this point is the "letter killeth" and ignore all these verses, so I can do the same right?

besides the weymouths translation has been proven innacurate

Opinion of Weymouth's Translation - Article

 

[createdtoworship]

I never ignore any verses. You just admitted you did. There are many verses you need to search out the true meaning because they have been mistranslated by bias orthodox interpeter. But never do I ignore verses. Give me one example. Weymouths translation is far more accurate then the bias KJV.

You just gave me two example you ignored.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (KJV)

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"the letter killeth" is what you would say, and ignore the verse.

you do it everytime we or other people quote verses you don't like, you don't need an example just look at your post history. Especially post 512, where you state that you "don't reply to verses the letter killeth"

 

[Ed Bana]

I have there is nothing there, Yes I say the letter killeth. It does.

That is scripture. If someone give me a verse that condemns I just point out the word judge and damn come from the same word also the word probated.

God's judgement are just. Orthodoxy condemns. Jesus saves.

I never ignore any verses. You just admitted you did. There are many verses you need to search out the true meaning because they have been mistranslated by bias orthodox interpeter. But never do I ignore verses. Give me one example. Weymouths translation is far more accurate then the bias KJV.

You just gave me two example you ignored.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (KJV)


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"the letter killeth" is what you would say, and ignore the verse.

you do it everytime we or other people quote verses you don't like, you don't need an example just look at your post history.

 

[Ed Bana]

1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)



It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.​

 

[createdtoworship]

I have there is nothing there, Yes I say the letter killeth. It does.

That is scripture. If someone give me a verse that condemns I just point out the word judge and damn come from the same word also the word probated.

God's judgement are just. Orthodoxy condemns. Jesus saves.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------

you say it again in post 515,

http://www.christianforums.com/t7576214-4/#post58293061

and ignore the verses given to you

 

[Ed Bana]

The word "judgment" means. In the New Testament, the word used is "Krisis", which we have changed to "Crisis".

In English, it means "a critical period of time, a decisive moment, turning point, deciding time." In Greek, it means "a separating, choosing, deciding, determining, judging, trial, judgment."

In the New Testament, the word judgment (Krisis) is used to denote the deciding time, trial, or probation of man.

This time of judgment is spoken of in scripture in such a way as to indicate that it is given to man as a blessing and a favor. It is shown as a cause for great rejoicing and thanksgiving.

In Psalm 96, all nature and people are told to exult and rejoice "Before the Lord, for He cometh to judge the world. He shall judge the world with righteousness and the people with his truth."

Judgment time as a period of great rejoicing is in striking contrast to the orthodox view of a time of horror and dread!

It would almost seem we were reading from a different Bible.

No — it is the same Bible, but it is "the good tidings of great joy" that the angels said "shall be unto all people." These good tidings have been obscured by the traditions of men and clouded over by carnal reasonings. As a result, we have been taught that only a remnant would be saved and the remainder of mankind would suffer the tortures of an everlasting hell.

 

[Ed Bana]

And how did I ignore this? Everything you gave me i addressed.

I have there is nothing there, Yes I say the letter killeth. It does.

That is scripture. If someone give me a verse that condemns I just point out the word judge and damn come from the same word also the word probated.

God's judgement are just. Orthodoxy condemns. Jesus saves.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------

you say it again in post 515,

http://www.christianforums.com/t7576214-4/#post58293061

and ignore the verses given to you

 

[createdtoworship]

And how did I ignore this? Evewrything you gave me i addressed.

these verses were posted and you just ignored them in light of being against Israel and wanting to spiritualize their temple and their races.

Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem

 

[Ed Bana]

Well if you do not have any context you would ignore them too.

these verses were posted and you just ignored them in light of being against Israel and wanting to spiritualize their temple and their races.

Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem

 

[Ed Bana]

You are so against that which is spiritual. But God is a spirit so should that means something to you. Or is that fact some type of creed to you with no real meaning. Don't avoid this question why are you sooo againstthat which is spiritual???


Lets take one thing at a time. I told you every measurement every piece of furniture has a spiritual symbolism which shows us something deeper something spiritua that God's spiritual Word has something to say which you do not even begin to see.

These verses do not prove God's Word is not spiritual and I asked you for the context of why you want me to see your point? How about explaining in some context or some type of detail this message you are trying to show me?

I frankly do not see what you are trying to say.

Yes I want to spiritualize the spiritual temple with in us. Jesus is not knew the Temple of God is with in us. He was not interested in man building a Jewish temple made of stones from the ground; here are a few verses that declare this. Here are a few.

Mat 24:2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

John 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

John 2:21
But he spake of the temple of his body.

Eph 2:19 ¶
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
　
God’s Word is spiritual especially when it comes to something that shows such a strong pattern over and over again in scripture; there were at least four examples of temple in the OT pointing to the true temple with in us. Here are a few verse that express God’s intention of His dwelling place.

1 Corinthians 3
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?​

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?​

　
Revelation 11
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.​

Hebrews 9
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;​

Hebrews 9
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:​

2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.​

A
cts 15:14
Declares that he will return again and restore the Tabernacle of David and then he will save the remainder of mankind​

God is a spirit and His spirit is very where from the highest heaven to the lowest place in hell, God wants to dwell in us, the kingdom of God is with in us, His temple is with in us. Not is some natural Jerusalem where the people have rejected Jesus, not is some OT ritualism that represented the old order of Aaron’s Priesthood, all these things point to the temple of God with in, from the amount of steps, the stones itwere made of even the lampstand, it is a message within.


　

these verses were posted and you just ignored them in light of being against Israel and wanting to spiritualize their temple and their races.

Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem

 

[Ed Bana]

I really do not see what these verses are saying in reference to this debate. You make a big issue out of two verses where I see no context as if I am dismissing them. Yet you purposely blatantly ignore 1 Corin. 15:21 and dismiss Romans 5:18-20 because you do not like the Weymouth translation and these verse totally declares the salvation of all people which you are so against. I love this translation.

If you are so against what the wonderful verses are saying how about Romans 5:18-20 quoting other translations or get into the Greek and tear this these verses apart and go a bit deeper instead of just saying I do not like the Weymouth’s Translation??????


Romans 5:18-20
King James Version (KJV)
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Here is the KJ V of the Bible notice the word many. In verse 19 it says many were made sinner? This is not correct. All were made sinners so the word many is going against the fact that all men born of in sin. It looks like the bias translators tried to soften this verse for like you it went against their worn out wine skins. the letter killeth.

 

[Timothew]

I really do not see what these verses are saying in reference to this debate. You make a big issue out of two verses where I see no context as if I am dismissing them. Yet you purposely blatantly ignore 1 Corin. 15:21 and dismiss Romans 5:18-20 because you do not like the Weymouth translation and these verse totally declares the salvation of all people which you are so against. I love this translation.

If you are so against what the wonderful verses are saying how about Romans 5:18-20 quoting other translations or get into the Greek and tear this these verses apart and go a bit deeper instead of just saying I do not like the Weymouth’s Translation??????


Romans 5:18-20
King James Version (KJV)
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Here is the KJ V of the Bible notice the word many. In verse 19 it says many were made sinner? This is not correct. All were made sinners so the word many is going against the fact that all men born of in sin. It looks like the bias translators tried to soften this verse for like you it went against their worn out wine skins. the letter killeth.

The greek word translated as many is polloi.

 

[Ed Bana]

I understand this. hat does not rule out my point.

The greek word translated as many is polloi.

 

[Timothew]

I understand this. hat does not rule out my point.

I wasn't trying to rule out your point.

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi Ed...

I really do not see what these verses are saying in reference to this debate. You make a big issue out of two verses where I see no context as if I am dismissing them. Yet you purposely blatantly ignore 1 Corin. 15:21 and dismiss Romans 5:18-20 because you do not like the Weymouth translation and these verse totally declares the salvation of all people which you are so against. I love this translation.

If you are so against what the wonderful verses are saying how about Romans 5:18-20 quoting other translations or get into the Greek and tear this these verses apart and go a bit deeper instead of just saying I do not like the Weymouth’s Translation??????


Romans 5:18-20
King James Version (KJV)
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Here is the KJ V of the Bible notice the word many. In verse 19 it says many were made sinner? This is not correct. All were made sinners so the word many is going against the fact that all men born of in sin. It looks like the bias translators tried to soften this verse for like you it went against their worn out wine skins. the letter killeth.

Hey Ed... no matter how many times TRUTHFUL words are spoken, the DEAF will not hear... Only when GOD opens them, shall they hear.

Though I haven't read the entire thread, I have enjoyed your REASONABLE responses in it... which have largely fallen upon DEAF ears...

The CHIEF opposition to TRUTH is RELIGION... even IN the RELIGION of "christianity", ...for

the CATHOLIC is DEAF to witness/words of the JEHOVAH WITNESS...
the MORMON is DEAF to the witness/words of the LUTHERAN...
the METHODIST is DEAF to the witness/words of the ADVENTIST...
the BAPTIST is DEAF to the witness/words of the PENTECOSTAL...

and on, and on...

CHRIST plainly noted that a "house divided against ITSELF shall not stand" -- Mark 3:24-26 -- Luke 11:17 -- well, all these (and many, many more) are "believers" in JESUS CHRIST, yet are CLEARLY DIVIDED against others which also, ..."believe" in Him...

Ultimately, the RELIGIOUS, are destined for THIS rejection: Matt 7:22-23

You have more than provided a sound arguement, but the spirit of those immersed in RELIGION will not hear it, for such assaults their position... Just as CHRIST spoke the New Covenant message to the leaders of the JEWISH RELIGION, a DEAF ear was found in the vast MAJORITY of them.

When RELIGIOUS positioning is an integral part of any DISCUSSION, then that positioning will always point said discussion to an eventual futility... for the "christian" witnessing of CHRIST to the BUDDHIST or THE ISLAMIC, will also find themselves speaking to a DEAFENED (religious) ear...

Anyhoo, ...thanks for your posts in this thread bro...


...willieH

 

[Ed Bana]

Amen.


The deep things of God cannot be heardby religious hearing. They think that 1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (amp) is spaking about the world.


1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (amp)
　　　 14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

WillieH,

I understand totally where you arecoming from with this said I will continually say what needs to be said. For not all ears that ar here are religious ears some actually start hearing what God is saying by his divine Word and His Spirit.

willieH: Hi Ed...



Hey Ed... no matter how many times TRUTHFUL words are spoken, the DEAF will not hear... Only when GOD opens them, shall they hear.

Though I haven't read the entire thread, I have enjoyed your REASONABLE responses in it... which have largely fallen upon DEAF ears...

The CHIEF opposition to TRUTH is RELIGION... even IN the RELIGION of "christianity", ...for

the CATHOLIC is DEAF to witness/words of the JEHOVAH WITNESS...
the MORMON is DEAF to the witness/words of the LUTHERAN...
the METHODIST is DEAF to the witness/words of the ADVENTIST...
the BAPTIST is DEAF to the witness/words of the PENTECOSTAL...

and on, and on...

CHRIST plainly noted that a "house divided against ITSELF shall not stand" -- Mark 3:24-26 -- Luke 11:17 -- well, all these (and many, many more) are "believers" in JESUS CHRIST, yet are CLEARLY DIVIDED against others which also, ..."believe" in Him...

Ultimately, the RELIGIOUS, are destined for THIS rejection: Matt 7:22-23

You have more than provided a sound arguement, but the spirit of those immersed in RELIGION will not hear it, for such assaults their position... Just as CHRIST spoke the New Covenant message to the leaders of the JEWISH RELIGION, a DEAF ear was found in the vast MAJORITY of them.

When RELIGIOUS positioning is an integral part of any DISCUSSION, then that positioning will always point said discussion to an eventual futility... for the "christian" witnessing of CHRIST to the BUDDHIST or THE ISLAMIC, will also find themselves speaking to a DEAFENED (religious) ear...

Anyhoo, ...thanks for your posts in this thread bro...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Hi Timothew...

The greek word translated as many is polloi.

This Greek word used in -- Rom 5:18-19 -- [polus #G4183] -- does not refute Ed's position in any way... and remains as part of the CONTEXT which is "pointing back" to the "number" ["ALL"] which is referred to in -- Rom 5:12

"ALL" or "INNUMERABLE" is still "MANY"... as the STARS of HEAVEN -- Ex 32:13 -- Deut 1:10 -- Heb 11:12 -- and as the SAND by the SEA... are STILL a description of, ..."MANY" (and certainly CANNOT in ANY WAY, be referencing ..."few" by any stretch of human vision!)

ANY number which is SO LARGE as to be described as "INNUMERABLE" (actual referencing a "number" SO HUGE, that it is UNAVAILABLE to human comprehension = WITHOUT number!), ...still remains a number which is still easily definable by the english term, ..."MANY"... ...(or the Greek term, ...polus)


...willieH

 

[Timothew]

Hi Timothew...



This Greek word used in -- Rom 5:18-19 -- [polus #G4183] -- does not refute Ed's position in any way... and remains as part of the CONTEXT which is "pointing back" to the "number" ["ALL"] which is referred to in -- Rom 5:12

"ALL" or "INNUMERABLE" is still "MANY"... as the STARS of HEAVEN -- Ex 32:13 -- Deut 1:10 -- Heb 11:12 -- and as the SAND by the SEA... are STILL a description of, ..."MANY" (and certainly CANNOT in ANY WAY, be referencing ..."few" by any stretch of human vision!)

ANY number which is SO LARGE as to be described as "INNUMERABLE" (actual referencing a "number" SO HUGE, that it is UNAVAILABLE to human comprehension = WITHOUT number!), ...still remains a number which is still easily definable by the english term, ..."MANY"... ...(or the Greek term, ...polus)


...willieH

does not refute Ed's position in any way

I wasn't refuting Ed this time. I was thinking of the term "hoi polloi"

 

[createdtoworship]

You are so against that which is spiritual. But God is a spirit so should that means something to you. Or is that fact some type of creed to you with no real meaning. Don't avoid this question why are you sooo againstthat which is spiritual???


Lets take one thing at a time. I told you every measurement every piece of furniture has a spiritual symbolism which shows us something deeper something spiritua that God's spiritual Word has something to say which you do not even begin to see.

These verses do not prove God's Word is not spiritual and I asked you for the context of why you want me to see your point? How about explaining in some context or some type of detail this message you are trying to show me?

I frankly do not see what you are trying to say.

Yes I want to spiritualize the spiritual temple with in us. Jesus is not knew the Temple of God is with in us. He was not interested in man building a Jewish temple made of stones from the ground; here are a few verses that declare this. Here are a few.

Mat 24:2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

John 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

John 2:21
But he spake of the temple of his body.

Eph 2:19 ¶
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
　
God’s Word is spiritual especially when it comes to something that shows such a strong pattern over and over again in scripture; there were at least four examples of temple in the OT pointing to the true temple with in us. Here are a few verse that express God’s intention of His dwelling place.

1 Corinthians 3
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?​

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?​

　
Revelation 11
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.​

Hebrews 9
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;​

Hebrews 9
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:​

2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.​

A
cts 15:14
Declares that he will return again and restore the Tabernacle of David and then he will save the remainder of mankind​

God is a spirit and His spirit is very where from the highest heaven to the lowest place in hell, God wants to dwell in us, the kingdom of God is with in us, His temple is with in us. Not is some natural Jerusalem where the people have rejected Jesus, not is some OT ritualism that represented the old order of Aaron’s Priesthood, all these things point to the temple of God with in, from the amount of steps, the stones itwere made of even the lampstand, it is a message within.


　

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Christ will sit on the throne of DAVID, a physical throne. That was the Davidic kingdom that was on earth. Not spiritual. The Kingdom is yet to come the Bible says, meaning that Christ's kingdom will come in the future. It is coming FROM heaven. But we will rule and reign for a thousand years on the earth during this Throne of DAvid where Jesus will reside.

This temple has to do with this physical place, not spiritual. All the verses you speak of are speaking either of the temple in Jerusalem the was destroyed in 90 A.D. I think or speaking of the spiritual temple of the church. But the resurrected davidic kingdom is yet future, it's a prophecy.

Acts 15:16
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Acts 2:29-30
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

more verses on the physical temple and throne of DAVID


"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after
thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
"He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
" I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of
men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
" But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
" And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be
established for ever.
" According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David" (2
Samuel 7:12-16). So we see that God promises David that there would always be someonbe to sit on
the throne of David, which is also called the "Throne of Yahweh" (1 Chron 29:23). Was God True to
his promise to David? Before we search history let's look at a couple more passages from the Bible
about David and his descendants:
"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
"Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
"My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
"His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven
."If his children [plural] forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
"If they [plural] break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
"Then will I visit their [plural] transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
"Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
"Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
"His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
"It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. (Psalm 89:3-4, 27-
37).
"Thus saith YHWH; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that
there should not be day and night in their season;
"Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to
reign upon his throne...
"As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply
the seed of David my servant...
Moreover the word of YHWH came to Jeremiah, saying,
"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath
chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more
a nation before them.
"Thus saith YHWH; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances
of heaven and earth;
"Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed
to be rulers [PLURAL] over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity
["fortunes" NASB] to return, and have mercy on them" (Jeremiah 33:20-26).
"Ought ye not to know that YHWH God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever,
even to him and to his sons [pluarl] by a covenant of salt?" [margin "perpetual covenant"] " (2 Chron
13:5).