Let's Talk About Hell (3)

[LutheranMafia]

Actually, using BibleGateway.com I found 22 occurances of "ever and ever" in the NIV bible:

1. Galatians 1:5
   to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
2. Ephesians 3:21
   to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
   
3. Philippians 4:20
   To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
4. 1 Timothy 1:17
   Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
5. 2 Timothy 4:18
   The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
6. Hebrews 1:8
   But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
   
7. Hebrews 13:21
   equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
8. 1 Peter 4:11
   If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
9. 1 Peter 5:11
   To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
10. Revelation 1:6
    and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
11. Revelation 1:18
    I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
12. Revelation 4:9
    Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever,
13. Revelation 4:10
    the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
14. Revelation 5:13
    Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
15. Revelation 7:12
    saying: “Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!”
16. Revelation 10:6
    And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!
17. Revelation 11:15
    [ The Seventh Trumpet ] The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”
18. Revelation 14:11
    And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
19. Revelation 15:7
    Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of God, who lives for ever and ever.
20. Revelation 19:3
    And again they shouted: “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”
21. Revelation 20:10
    And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    Revelation 22:5
    There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

 

[Ed Bana]

aionios means ages. One age leads to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age. etc...

I thought aionios is the plural of aion. There are plenty of instances where aionios refers to Jesus rather than the fate of evil people.

because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.
Hebrews 7:24
​

And it is the singular of aion here.

Sometimes there is context, such as in Luke 1:33. once again in the singular of aion:

and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
Luke 1:33
​

And sometimes aion appears twice in a row: eons of eons.

Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Revelation 5:13

Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever.
Revelation 7:12

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 11:15

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever
Revelation 14:11
​

Note how all except the last verse speaks about Christ rather than the eternal fate of evil people.

 

[LutheranMafia]

*double post*

 

[Ed Bana]

LutheranMafia

Amen. But if there is error in scripture lets turn on the lights.

aion or aionios

These two words are translated as well as mis-translated thirteen ways: eternal age, ages of ages, course, world, , since the world began, from the beginning of the world, ever, forever, forever and ever, for evermore, while the world standeth, world without end, and, never.

Now I understand what the bias translators have interpreted the Bible using these two words as mentioned above but it just does not add up in the Bible. God’s Word is perfect; with out error; but it is full of errors if we believe these translator and or translations

The term forever (and its equivalents, eternal and everlasting) often occurs when it cannot possibly mean unending. In the story of Jonah one is surprised to hear him say while in the belly of the fish, "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever" (Jon. 2:6). But he was in the fish only three days and three nights!
When a Hebrew slave loved his master and did not wish to go free at the end of the seventh year, we read, "... His master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever" (Ex. 21:6). Of course, that couldn't be longer than his life span.

Again, when Solomon built the temple unto the Lord, he began his prayer of dedication with the statement, "I have surely built You a house to dwell in, a settled place for You to abide in for ever" (I Kgs. 8:13). And the Lord answered Solomon, "I have heard your prayer and supplication that you have made before Me: I have hallowed this house, which you have built, to put My name there for ever" (I Kgs. 9:3). But Solomon's temple lasted for only about 400 years! And it was never in God's mind to dwell there for ever!

Here is something that ought to be clear to any intelligent, honest man. A word that is used to mean in one case three days and nights, in another case to mean a man's lifetime, and in still another case to mean a period of about four centuries, surely does not mean unending or eternal, no matter what English word is used to translate it. USAGE DETERMINES MEANING.

Another illustration is the Aaronic priesthood. According to the King James version, Aaron and his sons were anointed as priests for ever. It says, "Their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations" (Ex. 40:15). Yet we read in Heb. 7:11-18 that the Aaronic priesthood is CHANGED to that of Melchizedek. "Now if perfection had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people were given the Law, why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest, one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order of Aaron? For when there is a CHANGE IN THE PRIESTHOOD, there is of necessity an alteration of the law concerning the priesthood as well. For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe. So, a previous physical regulation and command is CANCELLED because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness" (Amplified Bible).

Amazing, isn't it, that the priesthood which was ordained for ever has been CANCELLED! There would be no contradiction if the statement in Exodus were translated as it should be, "to the age throughout their generations." That is, throughout their generations AS LONG AS THAT AGE LASTED. In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures which Jesus and His disciples used, the Greek word AION was the word used for the Hebrew OLAM. According to Hebrew and Greek usage, therefore, these words mean a period of time, a period of unknown length, the duration of which is determined by the fact or condition or person to which the term is applied.
　
　

 

[LutheranMafia]

In the story of Jonah one is surprised to hear him say while in the belly of the fish, "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever" (Jon. 2:6). But he was in the fish only three days and three nights!

I think that what he is saying here is that without God's intervention he would have been stuck in Sheol forever. The verse goes on to say, "But you, LORD my God, brought my life up from the pit." Without God's intervention there is no way out of the pit.

But in this case of course we are talking about the Hebrew word owlam, not the Greek word aion.

1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
a) ancient time, long time (of past)
b) (of future)
1) for ever, always
2) continuous existence, perpetual
3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

 

[Ed Bana]

God did intervene by Jesus death.

"And He is the propitiation (mercy seat) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." [1 John 2:2].
"And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat." [Hebrews 9:5].

God's goodwill is spontaneous and unchangeable, it does not vacillate according to the merits or demerits of the individual. "God commendeth His love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. -- When we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son." [Romans 5:8, 10].
　　　　　　　　　　
It was "while we were yet sinners" that He poured forth His life for us, and while we were enemies He revealed His love to, and for us. Therefore we dare not view any man with the thought, "does he deserve it?" Because there was no way that we ourselves deserved it, we had no merits to claim that love, but it was freely given to us just the same, and we shall learn to freely give in like manner. Furthermore, it says, "not imputing their trespasses unto them..." [2 Corinthians 5:19]. I understand this is the hard part, especially if you have been raised with that heavy hangover of condemnation and charging every man with guilt and shame. It was a sin to do this, it was a sin to do that, and we were so sin-conscious that we were not able to kindle any consciousness of forgiveness and love, or to express of HIS mercy.
　　　　　　　　　　

Ah, what mercy superabounds in the New Covenant, where one does not impute, does not charge man with sin. Seems as if the very moment we see someone doing what we consider is wrong, we immediately want to brand them as sinners, and heap condemnation upon them for their deed, thus thrusting them farther into darkness, with a guilt complex. Rather, we need to come into that place where we are able to turn on the light, reveal the love and life of Christ, and give them a more excellent way, with power to live righteously. Tell the world the good news, that in Christ they shall find the fullness of life for which they have yearned. But to make this transition, till we are no more condemnation-conscious, but rather become CHRIST-LIFE-CONSCIOUS, this is a process indeed.
　　　　　　　　　　　　

"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." [Hebrews 8 :12] . "God be merciful to me a sinner." [Luke 18:13].
　　　　　　　　　　　　
Both times we find this word "merciful" coming from the same root word for mercyseat, or propitiation. There is no appeasement, no soothing if all the time we remember man's sin, and continue to charge them with guilt. But here God says that He will not remember, will not call to mind the iniquity of man, but writing His laws upon their hearts and minds, and giving them power to live a holy life, sin will be erased from the universe.


​

I think that what he is saying here is that without God's intervention he would have been stuck in Sheol forever. The verse goes on to say, "But you, LORD my God, brought my life up from the pit." Without God's intervention there is no way out of the pit.

But in this case of course we are talking about the Hebrew word owlam, not the Greek word aion.

1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
a) ancient time, long time (of past)
b) (of future)
1) for ever, always
2) continuous existence, perpetual
3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

 

[Timothew]

I think that what he is saying here is that without God's intervention he would have been stuck in Sheol forever. The verse goes on to say, "But you, LORD my God, brought my life up from the pit." Without God's intervention there is no way out of the pit.

But in this case of course we are talking about the Hebrew word owlam, not the Greek word aion.

1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
a) ancient time, long time (of past)
b) (of future)
1) for ever, always
2) continuous existence, perpetual
3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

Like the rest of us, without God's intervention-the resurrection, there is no way out of the grave.

 

[Timothew]

Hell is not eternal because humanity does not inherently have eternal life.

ROMANS 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
1) The wages for sin is shown to be death, and eternal life is stated to be a gift from God, not something people already have. This is consistently expressed from Genesis to Revelation
MATTHEW 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it, (14) but small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
destruction= the condition of being destroyed; demolition; annihilation.

the broad way leads to destruction, one cannot be living forever and then said to be destroyed

JOHN 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Perish=to suffer destruction or ruin
As we can see by the verse on top if one does not believe in the Son in no way will he have eternal life

GALATIONS 6:8
The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life.
MATTHEW 10:28
“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One (God) who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[4]”

the passage on top is say that people (satan) can destroy the body ,but God will destroy both the body and the soul in the lake of fire.Now it can't be plainer than that, the wicked will not have immortality

JAMES 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, the One (God) who is able to save and destroy.

HEBREWS 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

2Peter 2:6
If he (God) condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

We know Peter is specifically referring here to what will happen to the ungodly on judgment day when they’re thrown into the lake of fire (the second death) because this will be the only time that all the ungodly will experience a fate comparable to the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah. If the incineration of Sodom and Gomorrah is a true, trustworthy example of what will happen to the ungodly when they suffer the second death, then we must conclude that the ungodly will, in fact, be incinerated;

As we all know Soddom is not still burning right now

2PETER 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgement and destruction (apoleia) of ungodly men.

The day of judgment is the day when ungodly people will suffer everlasting destruction. This is their “eternal punishment” as God destroys “both soul and body in hell”

MATTHEW 13:24-30

Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed seed in his field. (25) But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. (26) When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
(27) The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
(28) ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
The servants asked him, ‘do you want us to go and pull them up?’
(29) ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. (30) Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ”

PSALM 37:20
But the wicked will perish: The LORD’s enemies will be like the beauty of the fields, they will vanish – vanish like smoke.

MALACHI 4:1-3,5
“Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or branch will be left to them. (2) But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. (3) Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things,” says the LORD Almighty.
(5) “See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.”

the wicked will be ashes under the feet of the righteous in the new Jerusalem.So we can see the idea of an everlasting torment is not Biblical at all.The lake fire will consume the wicked and will be an everlasting punishment because it will eradicate every trace of sin fro God's universe.

You've presented what the bible says very clearly. Thank you for posting this.

 

[Ed Bana]

He sure does seeing he cannot look at each verses by it self and dig beyond the letter that killeth. God's Word is not sooooo shallow.

You've presented what the bible says very clearly. Thank you for posting this.

 

[Ed Bana]

Of course we need God's intervention. It was called Calvary. Happened two thousand years ago. Do you need me to quote chapter and verse?

Like the rest of us, without God's intervention-the resurrection, there is no way out of the grave.

 

[createdtoworship]

Actually, using BibleGateway.com I found 22 occurances of "ever and ever" in the NIV bible:

1. Galatians 1:5
   to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
2. Ephesians 3:21
   to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
   
3. Philippians 4:20
   To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
4. 1 Timothy 1:17
   Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
5. 2 Timothy 4:18
   The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
6. Hebrews 1:8
   But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
   
7. Hebrews 13:21
   equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
   
8. 1 Peter 4:11
   If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
9. 1 Peter 5:11
   To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
10. Revelation 1:6
    and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
11. Revelation 1:18
    I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
12. Revelation 4:9
    Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever,
13. Revelation 4:10
    the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
14. Revelation 5:13
    Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
15. Revelation 7:12
    saying: “Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!”
16. Revelation 10:6
    And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!
17. Revelation 11:15
    [ The Seventh Trumpet ] The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”
18. Revelation 14:11
    And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
19. Revelation 15:7
    Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of God, who lives for ever and ever.
20. Revelation 19:3
    And again they shouted: “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”
21. Revelation 20:10
    And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    Revelation 22:5
    There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

no one wants to quote on this because this proves aion can mean endless duration.

 

[Ed Bana]

aion means age. or ages if you use its plural form.

no one wants to quote on this because this proves aion can mean endless duration.

 

[createdtoworship]

aion means age. or ages if you use its plural form.

If and only if, "aion" is temporary then the following assumptions must be true


The glory of God is temporary (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, Revelation 22:5, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, Galatians 1:5, Romans 1:23 and Philippians 4:20)

The righteousness of God is also temporary, which is implying that God is a sinner! (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1 Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, John 12:34, John 14:16 and 2Corinthians 9:9)

God lives only temporarily, God eventually dies. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)

God's Kingdom is temporary, (contradicts: Revelation 22:5, Daniel 7:18, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, and Ephesians 1:21)

God is only wise temporarily, God is apparently unwise later on. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, Romans 16:27 and Jude 1:25)

God is incorruptible temporarily, (contradicts: 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, 2Corinthians 9:9 and Romans 1:23)

God is not immortal, God eventually dies.
(contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)

God abide's only temporarily, (contradicts: 1Peter 1:23, John 12:34 and John 14:16)

VERSE LIST
1Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal[aion], immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.
1Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they (his servants---Rev. 22:3) shall reign for ever[aion] and ever[aion].
Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible(1 Cor. 15:52), by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever[aion].
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever[aion]. Amen.
Revelation 10:6 "And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are,..."
1John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever[aion].
Matthew 6:13 "...For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever[aion]. Amen."
John 12:34 "...that Christ abideth for ever[aion]:..."
John 14:16 "...the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever[aion];..."
Romans 1:23 "...And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God..."
Romans 1:25 "...the Creator, who is blessed for ever[aion]. Amen."
Romans 9:5 "... Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever[aion]. Amen."
Romans 16:27 "To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever[aion]..."
2Corinthians 9:9 "...his righteousness remaineth for ever[aion]."
Galatians 1:5 To whom [be] glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Philippians 4:20 Now unto God and our Father [be] glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.

 

[served]

no one wants to quote on this because this proves aion can mean endless duration.

Whats the difference between "for ever" and "for ever and ever"
Is that second "ever" mean a longer duration than the first?
See this is also why we have an understanding that aion is not translated correctly. It does not make any sense. "ages and ages" or "ages of ages" would fit for all periods of time known to exist. See when these were originally written the very idea of lasting for an eternity was not even a thought, thus their language did not include an "eternity" in any format.

 

[Ed Bana]

No, That is your assumption. God deals with men by ages because we are not truly eternal beings. We had a beginning.
One age leads to another age, to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,

If and only if, "aion" is temporary then the following assumptions must be true


The glory of God is temporary (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, Revelation 22:5, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, Galatians 1:5, Romans 1:23 and Philippians 4:20)

The righteousness of God is also temporary, which is implying that God is a sinner! (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1 Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, John 12:34, John 14:16 and 2Corinthians 9:9)

God lives only temporarily, God eventually dies. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)

God's Kingdom is temporary, (contradicts: Revelation 22:5, Daniel 7:18, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, and Ephesians 1:21)

God is only wise temporarily, God is apparently unwise later on. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, Romans 16:27 and Jude 1:25)

God is incorruptible temporarily, (contradicts: 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, 2Corinthians 9:9 and Romans 1:23)

God is not immortal, God eventually dies.
(contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)

God abide's only temporarily, (contradicts: 1Peter 1:23, John 12:34 and John 14:16)

VERSE LIST
1Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal[aion], immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.
1Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they (his servants---Rev. 22:3) shall reign for ever[aion] and ever[aion].
Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible(1 Cor. 15:52), by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever[aion].
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever[aion]. Amen.
Revelation 10:6 "And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are,..."
1John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever[aion].
Matthew 6:13 "...For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever[aion]. Amen."
John 12:34 "...that Christ abideth for ever[aion]:..."
John 14:16 "...the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever[aion];..."
Romans 1:23 "...And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God..."
Romans 1:25 "...the Creator, who is blessed for ever[aion]. Amen."
Romans 9:5 "... Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever[aion]. Amen."
Romans 16:27 "To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever[aion]..."
2Corinthians 9:9 "...his righteousness remaineth for ever[aion]."
Galatians 1:5 To whom [be] glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Philippians 4:20 Now unto God and our Father [be] glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.

 

[Soulgazer]

The message that I get from Christ, is that when you are forgiven, God no longer cares who you were, however, He has great interest in who you are. In other words, one may be a Jerk all of their life, but if they want to follow Christ, there has to be some attitude adjustment from within or without, or even a combination of both. Perfection is a goal that has been set for us, and every single day is a fresh start to be a better person. It may be that the journey is the destination, but we still have to walk it. It's "pick up thy cross and follow me", not "mouth the words and I'll carry your cross for you".

"The foolish - thinking in their heart that if they confess, "We are Christians," in word only (but) not with power, while giving themselves over to ignorance, to a human death, not knowing where they are going nor who Christ is, thinking that they will live, when they are (really) in error - hasten towards the principalities and authorities. They fall into their clutches because of the ignorance that is in them. For (if) only words which bear testimony were effecting salvation, the whole world would endure this thing and would be saved. But it is in this way that they drew error to themselves. ... "~Testimony of Truth

Christ is the personification of the Goodness of God; Not all of the Authors of the New testament understood that. Some were still looking for physical salvation, and death and destruction for their enemies. The biggest problem with that, is that even in this late date, there are many superstitious that are looking for the end of the world. They don't understand, that everybody dies alone. Want to know what the end is? Look to the beginning. You come into the world alone, and you leave it alone. Everyone is the protagonist in their own Gospel; They are the creator of their own world, and that world will end with their physical death. If everyone dies together, it will not change a thing. "Pick up thy cross and follow me". You are already crucified....you started dying at the moment of your birth. There is no life here, nothing to see, nothing to hang onto. Hang onto this world, and it will drag you down into it's own destruction. Let go of it, grasp your birth right as a child of God, and grow to maturity as an eternal being, not as an animal fighting for dirt. Want to change the world? Change what you have been given the power to change---yourself. One less person doing a crime, is a lower crime rate. One more act of kindness means the world is just a little better. Be a passerby. Be that Samaritan. Grasp the power of Christ, the Goodness of God.

"He called out, saying: "Whoever has ears to hear about the infinities, let him hear!"; and "I have addressed those who are awake." Still he continued and said: "Everything that came from the perishable will perish, since it came from the perishable. But whatever came from imperishableness does not perish but becomes imperishable. So, many men went astray because they had not known this difference and they died."~Sophia of Jesus

 

[Ed Bana]

You want to discuss God's Word do not give me a laundry list I can do the same thing with verses that declare the ultimate salvation of all people. Try one verse at a time then we can get beond the letter that killeth and get into the verse subsatance.

no one wants to quote on this because this proves aion can mean endless duration.

 

[createdtoworship]

No, That is your assumption. God deals with men by ages because we are not truly eternal beings. We had a beginning.
One age leads to another age, to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,to another age,

It's not my assumption it's yours. Unless you disagree you nee to state so. So from what I think you believe: because we had a beginning all the occasions of aion thus turn to mean temporary duration? I don't think so. I think the picture is better taken to mean endless duration because God is eternal so therefore the rest of the occasions should be taken first and foremost with eternity in mind.

 

[createdtoworship]

You want to discuss God's Word do not give me a laundry list I can do the same thing with verses that declare the ultimate salvation of all people. Try one verse at a time then we can get beond the letter that killeth and get into the verse subsatance.

some of the people in this forum respond well to laundry lists, sorry you are not one of them. And besides if you give me a laundry list of verses going the other way then we have contradiction. So eternity is the best option for both. Thats how you deal with long lists.

 

[Ed Bana]

　
The real problem with words like eternal everlasting and for ever and ever is the Babylonian religious system that refuse to look outside of their man made religious box.

The seminaries keep puppeting the same old doctrines of damnations generation after generation. Occasionally you will find a Bible scholar willing to agree with the following.

A careful study of the Greek word “aionios” (translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” and “forever and ever” in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion” which always means “an indeterminate period of time.”　

It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios” from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived.　 God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete.　

The problem is that the Greek words which were translated to "eternal" actually do not translate properly in English because there is no word in English which translates it properly. In this case, the word is "AIONIOS" and it is a descriptive adjective which just means "of, or in, or belonging to, or coming from, or resmbling, or befitting the AION.

AION is a noun meaning, "A period of time, or perpetuity of time, or definitive age, or unbroken age." It simply means an age with unknown measure which can be indefinitive or definitive.

So literally the word "AIONIOS" being translated as "Eternal" would more accurately be defined as "agely"; however since "agely" is not a real word, that leaves the English language without a literal translation for the word "AIONIOS".

so because we had a beginning all the occasions of aion thus turn to mean temporary duration? I don't think so. I think the picture is better taken to mean endless duration because God is eternal so therefore the rest of the occasions should be taken first and foremost with eternity in mind.