Let's Talk About Hell (3)

[Timothew]

You should have said the vast majority. As far as I know only the JW's agree with you on both points in question here.

What points do our beliefs have in common with Mormons? While you clearly have some differences with the JW's, never the less your views bear a striking similarity to JW views.

quack quack!!!

I am not a JW. You just can't stop name-calling can you. I think it means that you have nothing of substance to add. First I'm atheistic, now I'm JW? Mormons believe in hell, you believe in hell, stricking similarity there.

Even if I completely resemble a JW, so what? Address the argument, not the person. Unless you are unable to do this.

The bible says that the wages of sin is death. You say that's wrong. Then you call me names. That's not an argument, unless you are actually six years old, Poopy head!

 

[Timothew]

Why are you so hurt about this?
it all depends on your misunderstanding of "original," I provided an original of westcott and hort. So you were not meaning original you meant "early" manuscripts, you should have stated that earlier. I wasn't rude by the way just concerned.

Really? When I said the original new testament manuscripts, you thought I meant the original Westcott Hort manuscripts? Really?

I wasn't rude by the way just concerned.

And do yourself a favor.

Or are you the only one in the world to believe this exaggeration.

unless you are going to make your own translation I think your stuck with Hort.

just excuses. We know if you quack like a duck you are one.

Jehovah's witnesses put a comma after today. What does that make us if we believe the same?

You've been behaving very rudely. Both of you.

 

[LutheranMafia]

I am not a JW. You just can't stop name-calling can you. I think it means that you have nothing of substance to add. First I'm atheistic, now I'm JW? Mormons believe in hell, you believe in hell, stricking similarity there.

One of you arguments is IDENTICAL to the arguments of atheists. It is not name calling to call an argument that is identical to atheists' argument atheistic. It is simply calling a spade a spade.

Even if I completely resemble a JW, so what? Address the argument, not the person. Unless you are unable to do this.

I do address the argument, you just don't like being proven wrong, so you call it name-calling.

The bible says that the wages of sin is death. You say that's wrong.

You are lying about my argument again. Why are you such a dishonest person? I have said countless times that the soul can die. But nowhere does the Bible speak of spirit death.

"The soul who sins shall die" Ezekiel 18:20
"fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28

Then you call me names. That's not an argument, unless you are actually six years old, Poopy head!

Pointing out the striking similarity between your point of view and the JW point of view is not name calling.

 

[Timothew]

Pointing out the striking similarity between your point of view and the JW point of view is not name calling.

It does absolutely nothing to advance your argument. It actually hurts your argument to commit ad-homenum fallacies.

 

[createdtoworship]

I am not a JW. You just can't stop name-calling can you. I think it means that you have nothing of substance to add. First I'm atheistic, now I'm JW? Mormons believe in hell, you believe in hell, stricking similarity there.

Even if I completely resemble a JW, so what? Address the argument, not the person. Unless you are unable to do this.

The bible says that the wages of sin is death. You say that's wrong. Then you call me names. That's not an argument, unless you are actually six years old, Poopy head!

you do sound like a JW by the way. ( do you believe in the trinity?)

read this site, sound familiar?

What Really Is Hell? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

 

[Timothew]

you do sound like a JW by the way. ( do you believe in the trinity?)

And the hits just keep on coming.

Yes I believe in the trinity. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Timothew]

So the JWs use scripture to back up their belief in Annihilationism, and I use scripture to back up my belief in annihilationism. so what?

You use adhom attacks to deny the truth. Have you ever even read the bible?

 

[Timothew]

Pointing out the striking similarity between your point of view and the JW point of view is not name calling.

So if I point out the striking similarity between you and a six year old, that is not name calling either?

 

[createdtoworship]

And the hits just keep on coming.

Yes I believe in the trinity. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

it's just that you use the same exact arguments, like you guys are from the same spirit of interpretation, no kidding. (so you believe Jesus is God?)

 

[Mikecpking]

it's just that you use the same exact arguments, like you guys are from the same spirit of interpretation, no kidding. (so you believe Jesus is God?)

All I see is you calling Timothy a JW and throwing in strawmen. Why can't you look at the issues without insults being made? We have used scripture and you seem not to want to know.

 

[Mikecpking]

Spirit is not breath, spirit imparts breath while it is in the body, then spirits move on after the body dies.

Wrong! Scripture used ruach and spirit as breath. Otherwise you make the scriptures given here false. Life breath is imparted by God in Genesis 2:7 and goes back to God at death (ecclesiates 12:7)

Job describes hius breath in his nostrils as the breath of God too. Of course its effect on a human individual is more than just the air breathe, but you cannot define 'spirit' to be some kind of disembodied being. The hebrews never believed that.

So then Jesus was lying when he told the thief in Luke 23:43 that they would be together in Paradise on that very day? Your belief that Jesus tells lies is quite a striking testimony of faith, Mike.

Timothy is bang on about the punctuation. Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days until he was resurrected.

Do you believe in the resurrection? What would be the point of a resurrection if we went straight to heaven at death.

What do you think about Luther?

 

[Timothew]

it's just that you use the same exact arguments, like you guys are from the same spirit of interpretation, no kidding. (so you believe Jesus is God?)

I noticed that neither you nor Mr LutheranMafia have compared me to Dr. John Stott or Dr. Greg Boyd. Why not? We use the same arguments for annihilationism.

Does Dr. John Stott and Dr. Greg Boyd not have the same emotional appeal as a JW or an atheist? Your bias is showing.

For the record, in case admitting that I believe in the trinity wasn't clear enough for you, Yes, I believe that Jesus is God. I have no reservations about it, the bible is crystal clear on this.

 

[Timothew]

It would be odd if I didn't believe Jesus is God since He is my only hope for resurrection and eternal life. I noticed that you guys seem to think that you have eternal life whether or not Jesus is God. Perhaps I am the one who should be asking:

Whom do you say Jesus Christ is? Is he Very God of Very God or not?

 

[Timothew]

I noticed that neither you nor Mr LutheranMafia have compared me to Dr. John Stott or Dr. Greg Boyd. Why not? We use the same arguments for annihilationism.

Does Dr. John Stott and Dr. Greg Boyd not have the same emotional appeal as a JW or an atheist? Your bias is showing.

For the record, in case admitting that I believe in the trinity wasn't clear enough for you, Yes, I believe that Jesus is God. I have no reservations about it, the bible is crystal clear on this.

I should also add Glenn Moyer. He got me starting thinking about hell and reading what the bible actually says about hell.

 

[createdtoworship]

It would be odd if I didn't believe Jesus is God since He is my only hope for resurrection and eternal life. I noticed that you guys seem to think that you have eternal life whether or not Jesus is God. Perhaps I am the one who should be asking:

Whom do you say Jesus Christ is? Is he Very God of Very God or not?

I believe in ALL of orthodoxy, not just the parts about Jesus either. But the parts about an eternal heaven and eternal hell. It's the same greek word for both btw.

 

[Timothew]

I believe in ALL of orthodoxy, not just the parts about Jesus either. But the parts about an eternal heaven and eternal hell. It's the same greek word for both btw.

I noticed that you didn't answer the question.
Believing in orthodoxy is not the same thing as believing in God.

What do you mean by eternal hell? Which greek or hebrew word do you mean by hell? Hades is not eternal, he will be destroyed with Thanatos in the lake of fire which is the second death.

 

[createdtoworship]

I noticed that you didn't answer the question.
Believing in orthodoxy is not the same thing as believing in God.

It is the same, orthodoxy believes in the deity, the trinity you name it.

What do you mean by eternal hell? Which greek or hebrew word do you mean by hell? Hades is not eternal, he will be destroyed with Thanatos in the lake of fire which is the second death.

Matthew 25:46
King James Version (KJV)
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Augustine raised the argument that since Aionios in Matthew 25:46 refers to both life and punishment , it had to carry the same duration in both cases.

You are stuck to believe the duration is relative to whom it is given.

secondly the soul has to be eternal because satan and angels are eternal and it is them that share the experience of Hell with the wicked.

thirdly, the beast and the false prophet are in hell a thousand years in the Revelation. They will be tossed in before the millennium and abide until the end of the 1000 years when Satan is thrown in.

 

[Timothew]

It is the same, orthodoxy believes in the deity, the trinity you name it.
I'd like to hear the words. After all, whoever confesses Christ with his mouth and believes in his heart that God raised Him from the dead will be saved.



Matthew 25:46
King James Version (KJV)
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Augustine raised the argument that since Aionios in Matthew 25:46 refers to both life and punishment , it had to carry the same duration in both cases.

You are stuck to believe the duration is relative to whom it is given.

secondly the soul has to be eternal because satan and angels are eternal and it is them that share the experience of Hell with the wicked.

thirdly, the beast and the false prophet are in hell a thousand years in the Revelation.

Eternal is in Matt 25, but hell is not. Death is eternal. the punishment is eternal, we agree on that. We disagree on what the punishment is.

 

[createdtoworship]

Eternal is in Matt 25, but hell is not. Death is eternal. the duration is eternal, we agree on that.

death is not punishment. If you have ever seen the spy movies, "you can go the easy way or the hard way." Torment always offers more confessions than simply threatening death. God is the same way, He knows that man will simply say "Kill me." It easier to die for a lie than to live for the truth. That is hardly punishment. Death is more like fate, than punishment.

and you refused to comment on my second and third points.

 

[Timothew]

death is not punishment. If you have ever seen the spy movies, "you can go the easy way or the hard way." Torment always offers more confessions than simply threatening death. God is the same way, He knows that man will simply say "Kill me." It easier to die for a lie than to live for the truth. That is hardly punishment. Death is more like fate, than punishment.

and you refused to comment on my second and third points.

Death is punishment, that's why Texas has a death penalty. It's not a death reward. Also, God doesn't extract confessions by threatening torment.

What were your second and third points?