Let's clear up the Eschatology Scripture?

[Riberra]

What is the basis for you saying the days of the reign of the Beast? It is the great tribulation that is cut short of every living thing on earth being wiped out. The great tribulation is tied to the abomination of desolation setup. And the abomination of desolation lasts a specific number of days - 1335 days, until the day Jesus returns. It is not cut short in number of days. It is that it will be limited - cut short of every living thing being wiped out.

Because the reign of the Beast will spend during the last 42 months of the tribulation Revelation 13:3-5

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

These verses are more proof that the days of the great tribulation that will be shortened refers to the 42 months reign of the beast during the last half of the tribulation.....

That is for the ELECT's SAKE that those days will be shortened...because the Beast is about to kill every ELECT who are still alive .

-and except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be SAVED:
There should no flesh be SAVED is not referring to the destruction of all form of life on the Earth but about SALVATION .As you know it during the 42 months reign of the Beast you either take the mark and be damned [Revelation 14:9-12]or you will be beheaded if you refuse

 

[Douggg]

-and except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be SAVED:
There should no flesh be SAVED is not referring to the destruction of all form of life on the Earth but about SALVATION .As you know it during the 42 months reign of the Beast you either take the mark and be damned [Revelation 14:9-12]or you will be beheaded if you refuse

not hardly. I don't even know why you make a post like that. When you talk to someone about accepting Jesus so that they will be saved, do tell them - so your flesh will be saved?

 

[Riberra]

not hardly. I don't even know why you make a post like that.

The Bible in Revelation 14:9-12 is clear if you take the mark and worship the Beast you will lose your salvation.

When you talk to someone about accepting Jesus so that they will be saved, do tell them - so your flesh will be saved?

What does Being Saved / SALVATION by accepting Jesus Christ as our LORD AND SAVIOR means for you ?
2 choices:
1-JESUS ' GOSPEL preach that
It is your SOUL that will be saved and will go to Heaven in the presence of God when you will die, waiting [in Heaven] as in a state of rest (sleep in Christ) to be resurrected into a new immortal body when Jesus will come on the Earth to establish His Earthly Kingdom.

-OR-

2-The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine preached exclusively in the Protestant types churches tell you that
-being saved means being taken out of the Earth to Heaven before the tribulation while you are still alive.-

 

[keras]

You're the one who wrote....
"The glorious Return and Armageddon is referred to in Revelation 16:14, as the Great Day of Almighty God. Again, just a single day."
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The question was made in regards to your statement that Armageddon is just a single day. The armies assemble at Armageddon to fight Jesus - all on the single day ? Your statement is flawed - obviously. It takes time for the armies to assemble at Armageddon. And the kings of the earth have to be motivated to do so. It is not a one day affair.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, but for you to think I meant the armies gathering at Armageddon, is a twisting of my post.
The great and terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, is a single day, I proved that with the scriptures I posted. That sudden and shocking worldwide disaster, the Sixth Seal, is the Day that will come as a thief, unexpectedly.

The glorious Day of Jesus' Return also happens on one Day. On that Day, the last day of this era, He will destroy those armies gathered at Armageddon.
It will also be exactly 1260 days after the AC desecrates the Temple. The sequence in Revelation 13:1-8 tells us how the Anti-Christ leader of the OWG will receive a death blow, but Satan, thrown out of heaven, Revelation 12:7-9, takes over his body. He is given permission to have authority for 42 months, from the day he sits in the Temple until Jesus chains him up, Revelation 20:2, exactly 1260 days.

Well, keras is wrong on several accounts. One is that neither the AoD, nor the transgression of desolation takes place on the exact midpoint day of 1260.

Another Dougggish statement that violates scripture: Daniel 9:27....he makes a treaty for 7 years, but then with one half spent, he will stop the Temple offerings.....REB in the middle of that 'week', ......KJV

The days of the great tribulation as not lessened in number. Nor in length of 24 hrs in a day. It is just saying that the days of the Great Tribulation will be limited - cut short of killing every living thing on earth.

This is right, God won't change the time period, but He will reduce the severity of the GT.

 

[Riberra]

This is right, God won't change the time period, but He will reduce the severity of the GT.

The Bible says:
Those DAYS shall be shortened for the elect's sake Matthew 24:21-22...not the severity of the GT.
The worst time for the Elect will be during the 42 months reign of the Beast Revelation 13:15-16 .


Revelation 13:15-16
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

The consequence of taking the mark of the Beast is that a Christian taking the mark of the beast will lose his Salvation.
Revelation 14:9-12

 

[keras]

The Bible says:
Those DAYS shall be shortened for the elect's sake Matthew 24:21-22...not the severity of the GT.

I stand corrected.
But I can't see how or why God would change the time periods so clearly given to us in Daniel and Revelation.
Actually, my thinking is that Matthew 24:15-22 is a dual prophecy, partially fulfilled in 70 AD, when the Christian Jews escaped to Pella, soon to be finally fulfilled when the Messianic Jews will hide underground, Isaiah 29:4, during the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire.

The worst time for the Elect will be during the 42 months reign of the Beast Revelation 13:15-16 .

Note that the 'woman', that is: those Christians who refused to agree with the treaty, Daniel 11:32, are taken far away to a place of safety for 3 1/2 years. [42 months, 1260 days] Revelation 12:14
Those citizens of Beulah, the new nation in all of the holy Land, Isaiah 62:1-12, who acceded to that treaty of death, Isaiah 28:14-15, must remain, Zechariah 14:2, and face persecution. Revelation 12:17

 

[Riberra]

I stand corrected.
But I can't see how God would change the time periods so clearly given to us in Daniel and Revelation.

By cutting the days of the reign of the Beast rather than let these days be totally completed.

or why God would change the time periods so clearly given to us in Daniel and Revelation.

Obviously for saving from being killed by the Beast at least a remnant of the ELECT still alive around the world , who are not under direct God's protection.

Actually, my thinking is that Matthew 24:15-22 is a dual prophecy, partially fulfilled in 70 AD, when the Christian Jews escaped to Pella, soon to be finally fulfilled when the Messianic Jews will hide underground, Isaiah 29:4, during the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire.

Note that the 'woman', that is: those Christians who refused to agree with the treaty, Daniel 11:32, are taken far away to a place of safety for 3 1/2 years. [42 months, 1260 days] Revelation 12:14
Those citizens of Beulah, the new nation in all of the holy Land, Isaiah 62:1-12, who acceded to that treaty of death, Isaiah 28:14-15, must remain, Zechariah 14:2, and face persecution. Revelation 12:17

Do you agree that the WOMAN who flee in the wilderness refers only to a small group of believers [living in Israel at that time ]that will flee to be under direct God's PROTECTION and NOURISHED in a place prepared for her ....all the other believers around the world will have to face the anger of the Beast if they refuse to take the mark.

 

[keras]

Do you agree that the WOMAN who flee in the wilderness refers only to a small group of believers [living in Israel at that time ]that will flee to be under direct God's PROTECTION and NOURISHED in a place prepared for her ....all the other believers around the world will have to face the anger of the Beast if they refuse to take the mark.

All of the true Christian believers will go to live in all of the holy Land, they will be the nation born in one Day, Isaiah 66:7-14. This is the great promise of God to His righteous people, from every race, nation and language, Isaiah 66:18b-21
The Lord will clear the Land on His Day of wrath, Jeremiah 10:18, on the same Day He will protect and redeem His people. Isaiah 30:25-30, Isaiah 61:2b-11
So they [we Christians] will all be in the Land, Isaiah 35:10, when the leader of the One World Govt comes to them and makes a 7 year peace treaty. Obviously the new nation of Beulah won't be a member of the OWG.
But that leader, is assassinated and his body is taken over by Satan, so then he attacks and conquers Beulah, Zechariah 14-1, at the exact mid-point of the 7 year treaty and he declares himself to be god in the Temple.
Proof that God's holy people, all true Christian believers, be they Jews, Gentiles, or whatever, are there in the Land, before and during the last seven years, is: Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 13:7
Those who refused to violate the Covenant with God, Daniel 11:32, by agreeing to a treaty with the AC, will be taken to safety and those whom the AC won over must remain. Revelation 12:17 These are the two groups of Zechariah 14:2.
As the population of Beulah will be many millions; the great multitude of Revelation 7:9, God will transport His faithful ones, several million, by the same means as Philip was transported, Acts 8:39, to a place as far as possible from Jerusalem. Which is New Zealand, called by it's citizens: Godzown! [God's own country]

By cutting the days of the reign of the Beast rather than let these days be totally completed.

The 'beast', Satan will still be in control of the holy Land when Jesus Returns after 1260 days and defeats him. Revelation 19:20

Obviously for saving from being killed by the Beast at least a remnant of the ELECT still alive around the world , who are not under direct God's protection.

Those not in that place of safety, will likely be killed, or will renounce God. Reality is, the only way they could redeem themselves IS to be killed for their faith and by doing that, will be resurrected at the Return. Revelation 20:4

 

[Postvieww]

Matt.24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Is it just possible the number of days is not shortened but the length of the day?

Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Could this passage describe the days length being shortened by 1/3?

I am in no way saying the video below represents the fulfillment of Matt. 24:22, but I am saying it shows it is possible to happen in this way.

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

 

[keras]

Is it just possible the number of days is not shortened but the length of the day?

A day is a 24 hour period. The only way to shorten it, is to speed up the earths rotation. Doing that to any appreciable extent, would cause havoc to the planets delicately balanced systems; weather, seasons and all life would be disrupted.
This will not happen, but what will be the fulfilment of Isaiah 24:19-20 and Isaiah 13:13, will be the earths orbit around the sun will speed up from 365.24 days to 360 days. This makes the time periods prophesied in Daniel and Revelation correct.

Re Matthew 24:22, we simply are not told how God will reduce the days of the Great Tribulation. Wait and see for that one!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

A day is a 24 hour period. The only way to shorten it, is to speed up the earths rotation.

I have spent 10 hours plus on the phone in fellowship with people around the world and it seemed like only 30 minutes to us.

Likewise someone in SCRIPTURE worked 7 YEARS to be betrothed and married to his wife, and then 7 MORE YEARS since he was tricked into marrying someone else the first time !

Yet to him, all those YEARS were as nothing !

So, perhaps the beloved and begotten of the FATHER from heaven
may likewise be so enthralled with HIS PRESENCE and GRACE and
so busy DOing what HE has them [us/ecclesia] do
that the time just FLIES BY

as many people have noted to me the last few decades.

Even the last 20 years to me seem like they have gone by in mere weeks.....

 

[Riberra]

I have spent 10 hours plus on the phone in fellowship with people around the world and it seemed like only 30 minutes to us.

Likewise someone in SCRIPTURE worked 7 YEARS to be betrothed and married to his wife, and then 7 MORE YEARS since he was tricked into marrying someone else the first time !

Yet to him, all those YEARS were as nothing !

So, perhaps the beloved and begotten of the FATHER from heaven
may likewise be so enthralled with HIS PRESENCE and GRACE and
so busy DOing what HE has them [us/ecclesia] do
that the time just FLIES BY

as many people have noted to me the last few decades.

Even the last 20 years to me seem like they have gone by in mere weeks.....

So far so good...keep hope that things goes like that for a long time ,at least until you pass away.

Don't wish to hard that the tribulation begin soon... the destruction caused by the great worldwide earthquake may let you without phone ,tv,internet ...electricity for a very long time ..

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Don't wish to hard that the tribulation begin soon...

I agree with Corrie ten Boom that it started already - over 80 percent of believers world wide have already been being martyred, tortured, imprisoned, beaten, and worse. (yes, there is a worse)

I was ready decades ago - I thought all believers were and are martyrs, and knew this before being saved.

As someone posted a long time ago "Whenever Y'SHUA calls a man, HE calls him to die". Like the Apostles and many of the disciples in the NT. It is even more dangerous TODAY , and getting worse every day.

 

[Riberra]

I agree with Corrie ten Boom that it started already - over 80 percent of believers world wide have already been being martyred, tortured, imprisoned, beaten, and worse. (yes, there is a worse)

I was ready decades ago - I thought all believers were and are martyrs, and knew this before being saved.

As someone posted a long time ago "Whenever Y'SHUA calls a man, HE calls him to die". Like the Apostles and many of the disciples in the NT. It is even more dangerous TODAY , and getting worse every day.

We are in the second phase of the 5th Seal.The first part is about the early Christians martyrs....

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

yes.

 

[Riberra]

yes.

We can thanks God that we in America and Europe have avoided all of that until now ...That is another story for the Christians living in Muslim countries ...they are in the second phase of the 5th seal Revelation 6:11 who will be in action until that God decide that the time is come to avenge the blood of the martyrs.

Seal 1 to Seal 5 have been opened...and in action since Jesus have ascended to Heaven
(Revelation 6)
Wars and Rumors of War -Earthquakes -Famines -Epidemics -Christians Martyrs since Jesus have ascended to Heaven to this day Oct 2016....and continue.

 

[Riberra]

A day is a 24 hour period. The only way to shorten it, is to speed up the earths rotation. Doing that to any appreciable extent, would cause havoc to the planets delicately balanced systems; weather, seasons and all life would be disrupted.
This will not happen,

True.

but what will be the fulfilment of Isaiah 24:19-20 and Isaiah 13:13, will be the earths orbit around the sun will speed up from 365.24 days to 360 days. This makes the time periods prophesied in Daniel and Revelation correct.

Daniel and John used the Lunar calendar of 30 Days.
42 months x 30 = 1260 days.

One year using the lunar calendar of 30 days:12 months x 30 =360 days

Re Matthew 24:22, we simply are not told how God will reduce the days of the Great Tribulation. Wait and see for that one!

By reducing the amount... maybe !

 

[Riberra]

All of the true Christian believers will go to live in all of the holy Land, they will be the nation born in one Day, Isaiah 66:7-14. This is the great promise of God to His righteous people, from every race, nation and language, Isaiah 66:18b-21
The Lord will clear the Land on His Day of wrath, Jeremiah 10:18, on the same Day He will protect and redeem His people. Isaiah 30:25-30, Isaiah 61:2b-11
So they [we Christians] will all be in the Land, Isaiah 35:10, when the leader of the One World Govt comes to them and makes a 7 year peace treaty. Obviously the new nation of Beulah won't be a member of the OWG.
But that leader, is assassinated and his body is taken over by Satan, so then he attacks and conquers Beulah, Zechariah 14-1, at the exact mid-point of the 7 year treaty and he declares himself to be god in the Temple.
Proof that God's holy people, all true Christian believers, be they Jews, Gentiles, or whatever, are there in the Land, before and during the last seven years, is: Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 13:7
Those who refused to violate the Covenant with God, Daniel 11:32, by agreeing to a treaty with the AC, will be taken to safety and those whom the AC won over must remain. Revelation 12:17 These are the two groups of Zechariah 14:2.
As the population of Beulah will be many millions; the great multitude of Revelation 7:9, God will transport His faithful ones, several million, by the same means as Philip was transported, Acts 8:39, to a place as far as possible from Jerusalem. Which is New Zealand, called by it's citizens: Godzown! [God's own country]

There is something who don't add up when you say that Beulah [the land of Israel in the middle east] will be a place of safety for the believers during the tribulation..../they have to flee in the wilderness for protection when the man of sin/Beast is revealed by committing the act of declaring that he his God.

Confirmed by what you wrote in post 486

Note that the 'woman', that is: those Christians who refused to agree with the treaty, Daniel 11:32, are taken far away to a place of safety for 3 1/2 years. [42 months, 1260 days] Revelation 12:14
Those citizens of Beulah, the new nation in all of the holy Land, Isaiah 62:1-12, who acceded to that treaty of death, Isaiah 28:14-15, must remain, Zechariah 14:2, and face persecution. Revelation 12:17

Note:The Nation of Beulah will be created at the beginning of the millennium after the Coming of Jesus and the resurrection and changing of the believers still alive....not at the 6 Th Seal.

At the 6th seal [Revelation 6:12-14]the destruction caused by the earthquake is far lesser that what is described in Isaiah 24:19-20


Isaiah 24:19-20 earthquake correspond to the earthquake happening at the 7 Th Vial - the total destruction of the cities and mountains leveled to ground level Revelation 16:17-20

Revelation 16:17-20 [it is done]--- Isaiah 24:19-20 [and it shall fall, and not rise again.ie our actual civilization]
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

 

[keras]

Daniel and John used the Lunar calendar of 30 Days.
42 month x 30 = 1260 days.
One year using the lunar calendar of 30 days:12 months x 30 =360 days

A year is one orbit of the earth around the sun. Nothing more, nothing less.
A lunar calendar is a confusion and quickly puts the seasons out of place.
The time periods given in Daniel and Rev. are: 1260 days, 42 months and 3 1/2 years. All refer to the exact same time period, one half of Daniels 70th 'week'.

There is something who don't add up when you say that Beulah [the land of Israel in the middle east] will be a place of safety for the believers during the tribulation..../

I did not say that.
The place of safety is far away on earth, but only half of the citizens of Beulah go there.

Note:The Nation of Beulah will be created at the beginning of the millennium after the Coming of Jesus and the resurrection and changing of the believers still alive....not at the 6 Th Seal.

Not correct. Beulah will be established soon after the Sixth Seal devastation has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3, then: Hosea 11:10-11 This is plain from the many prophesies about it and they have to be there for the leader of the OWG to come and make a peace treaty with them. Daniel 9:27

At the 6th seal [Revelation 6:12-14]the destruction caused by the earthquake is far lesser that what is described in Isaiah 24:19-20

Maybe, but there are several earthquakes yet to come and as you point out the one at Revelation 16:18 will be the worst.
The context of Isaiah 24 fits with the Sixth Seal and the cosmic and worldwide disaster caused by that event. Isaiah 24:13

 

[Riberra]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/B2TmXrlrxAA

The Chilean earthquake have affected the rotation of the Earth by only 1.26 microseconds (a microsecond is one millionth of a second) a blink of the eye....But a correction was needed on the atomic clock to account for that one millionth of a second ...
Nasa article:
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/earth-20100301.html