Let's clear up the Eschatology Scripture?

[keras]

Jude1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Another KJV mis-translation. REBible says 'angels' The Greek word is 'hagaias', which can mean saints, but also angels and we have 2 certain scriptures proving that angels is correct. Matthew 24:31, Revelation 19:14

A good reason not to use the REB.

Right: for a raptureist, because the Revised English Bible: by far the best translation available, proves the rapture to heaven is false. The KJV, with its archaic wording and grammar, its translators bias and doctrinal insertions, has Satan laughing all the way to hell.

You have yet to address the anomaly of Luke 21:34-36. How can anyone 'escape' the trap which will come upon everyone, the whole world over? Don't just think they are raptured, this worldwide disaster will come upon everyone. Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 3:8, 1 Peter 3:12-19

 

[Douggg]

So,those like you who promote that our gathering unto Jesus can happen at any moment goes against the warning made by Paul ....which place you into the category of false teachers trying (willingly or not) to deceive people as mentioned in verse 3

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Wrong antecedent. "that day" refers to the Day of Christ, the Day of the Lord. The body of Christ will be taken out of the way before then.

Your interpretation is don't be troubled because you with have go through the Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath
on the world. It makes zero sense.

 

[Riberra]

Wrong antecedent. "that day" refers to the Day of Christ, the Day of the Lord. The body of Christ will be taken out of the way before then.

Your interpretation is don't be troubled because you with have go through the Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath
on the world. It makes zero sense.

The 7 years of tribulation which will include the 3 1/2 years reign of the Beast is not the Day of the Lord [ie His Coming]Jesus will stay in Heaven until the 7th Vial.... Revelation 16:15-17

If as you think the Thessalonians believed in a pre-tribulation rapture (sic) why were they troubled by the rumor that their gathering unto Jesus [verse 1] be at hand ?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

 

[Douggg]

The 7 years of tribulation which will include the 3 1/2 years reign of the Beast is not the Day of the Lord [ie His Coming]Jesus will stay in Heaven until the 7th Vial.... Revelation 16:15-17

A multitude of errors in one sentence.

error 1 - There are 7 years of tribulation
error 2 - the Day of the Lord is the singular day of His Coming.
error 3 - the seventh vial is at the end of the 70th week.

the Day of Christ (the Day of the Lord) begins when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation *, going into the temple and claiming to be God. It will be a few months before the mid-point of the 70th week. He will be killed for the act and be brought back to life as the beast. The image is then made of him, the AoD, and placed in the temple on day 1185 of the 70th week. Which the great tribulation begins then.

The Jews begin to flee, as the beast battles the two witnesses and eventually kills them on day 1260. The beast rules for the remaining 42 months with the two witnesses gone.

* The rapture will take place before the Antichrist kicks off all of the troubles when he goes into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God.

 

[Riberra]

the Day of Christ (the Day of the Lord) begins when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation *, going into the temple and claiming to be God.

Explain how you arrive with that interpretation that the day when the 42 months (3 1/2 years) reign of the Beast will begin [Revelation 13:3-5]....''is the Day of The Lord Jesus Christ'' ?

 

[Riberra]

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[Douggg]

Explain how you arrive with that interpretation that the day when the 42 months (3 1/2 years) reign of the Beast will begin [Revelation 13:3-5]....''is the Day of The Lord Jesus Christ'' ?

The 42 months are the bulk of the Day of the Lord, but not all of it. The beginning of the 42 months is not the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The beginning of the Day of the Lord is actually a few months before the 42 months begin.

The Day of the Lord, on a timeline, begins a few months (approximately) before the exact midpoint. We can only approximate - because there is no exact timeline information of when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claiming to be God.

Maybe if I explain in list form....

1. on some unknown day in the first half of the 70th week - the Antichrist suddenly, unexpectedly, goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. The Day of the Lord begins then. It ends when Jesus returns.

2. God is angered by the act and has the person killed. And in disdain for the person has him brought back to life as the beast. We don't know what day on the timeline the person is killed and we don't know when he is brought back to life. Only that it takes place sometime during the first half before day 1185 - I will explain.

3. When the person is brought back to life, it is as the beast. The false prophet has the world make the image of him, and the image setup on day 1185, as the abomination of desolation. Pinned to being 1335 days before Jesus Returns on day 2520. That gives us a firm day on the timeline.

4. So on day 1185, the great tribulation begins. And the Jews begin to flee. The beast battles the two witnesses as they flee. He kills the two witnesses on day 1260. 3 1/2 days later on day 1263.5 the two witnesses rise and depart the earth. Then starts the 42 months free reign by the beast without having to deal with the two witnesses.

 

[Riberra]

The 42 months are the bulk of the Day of the Lord, but not all of it. The beginning of the 42 months is not the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The beginning of the Day of the Lord is actually a few months before the 42 months begin.

The Day of the Lord, on a timeline, begins a few months (approximately) before the exact midpoint. We can only approximate - because there is no exact timeline information of when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claiming to be God.

The Day of the Lord is the Coming of Jesus as a thief at midnight -on that day Revelation 16:15 -,The pouring out of the 7th Vial will put an end to the tribulation Revelation 16:17....that day , will include the visible appearance of Jesus in Glory at the battle of Armageddon at noon Revelation 19

 

[Douggg]

The Day of the Lord is the Coming of Jesus as a thief at midnight -on that day Revelation 16:15 -,The pouring out of the 7th Vial will put an end to the tribulation Revelation 16:17....it will include the visible appearance of Jesus in Glory at the battle of Armageddon at noon Revelation 19

It does not say Day of the Lord in Revelation 16:15. The meaning of Revelation 16:15 is debatable.

The great tribulation does end with Jesus's Return.

The Transgression of Desolation begins the Day of the Lord.
followed shortly by...
The Abomination of Desolation begins the great tribulation

The Day of the Lord and the great tribulation end the day when Jesus returns.

 

[Riberra]

It does not say Day of the Lord in Revelation 16:15. The meaning of Revelation 16:15 is debatable.

Paul wrote that The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night /Revelation 16:15 fit with that description./

The great tribulation does end with Jesus's Return.

We agree.

The Transgression of Desolation begins the Day of the Lord.
followed shortly by...
The Abomination of Desolation begins the great tribulation

If you are referring to Revelation 13:3-5 that is reference to the beginning of the 42 months reign of the Beast ie the final half of the tribulation before the Coming of Jesus.

The Day of the Lord and the great tribulation end the day when Jesus returns.

The reign of the Beast which will happen during the second half of the tribulation will end with the Coming of Jesus Revelation 16:15-17.....Revelation 19
The Day of the Coming of Jesus is definitively the worst thing (sudden destruction Revelation 16:18-19 )who will happen to the Beast Kingdom and his followers.

 

[keras]

The Day of the Lord and the great tribulation end the day when Jesus returns.

This confusion over what and when is the Day of the Lord, is ridiculous.
We are plainly told the Day of the Lord's wrath happens at the Sixth Seal and many prophesies about that great and terrible Day confirm it is just 1 literal day. Isaiah 9:4, Isaiah 10:17, Zechariah 3:9, Revelation 18:8
Making the Great Trib of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, that will happen during the last 1260 day period prior to the Return, to be all the Day of the Lord, is simply unbiblical.
The glorious Return and Armageddon is referred to in Revelation 16:14, as the Great Day of Almighty God. Again, just a single day.

Paul wrote that The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night /Revelation 16:15 fit with that description./

This verse is in parenthesis and refers back to the first prophesied event of the end times, namely the Sixth Seal: a worldwide disaster, that we are told many times will come suddenly and unexpectedly. Psalms 64:7, Isaiah 29:5-6, Jeremiah 4:20, 1 Thessalonians 5:3
The Day of Jesus' Return to reign for 1000 years, will not be unexpected for us, as we know He will come exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated by the AC.

 

[Douggg]

This confusion over what and when is the Day of the Lord, is ridiculous.
We are plainly told the Day of the Lord's wrath happens at the Sixth Seal and many prophesies about that great and terrible Day confirm it is just 1 literal day. Isaiah 9:4, Isaiah 10:17, Zechariah 3:9, Revelation 18:8
Making the Great Trib of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, that will happen during the last 1260 day period prior to the Return, to be all the Day of the Lord, is simply unbiblical.
The glorious Return and Armageddon is referred to in Revelation 16:14, as the Great Day of Almighty God. Again, just a single day.

The Day of the Lord is the timeframe from when the transgression of desolation is committed by the Antichrist, lasting over several months of the first half, through the second half, to the singular day that Jesus returns.

So the kings of the earth assemble the armies of the world at Armageddon to fight Jesus in a single day, according to you?

 

[keras]

The Day of the Lord is the timeframe from when the transgression of desolation is committed by the Antichrist, lasting over several months of the first half, through the second half, to the singular day that Jesus returns.

Your belief, not mine and not supported by any scripture.
I gave the prophesies that confirm the Day of the Lord's wrath is just one literal day. Ignoring them doesn't refute them.
Placing the Abomination of Desolation; when the AC declares himself to be god, over a period of time, is wrong too, as we are told it happens 42 months before Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:5

So the kings of the earth assemble the armies of the world at Armageddon to fight Jesus in a single day, according to you?

This is typical of how those whose view of the last days is so confused and full of false theories, that you can't even ask a sensible question.
It is the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire from the sun, that will last one literal Day. A massive explosion of the suns surface, just as Isaiah 30:26a tells us will happen, that will literally fulfil all the detailed prophesies; believe it or not, be prepared or not, know the truth or not; its up to you!

 

[Douggg]

This is typical of how those whose view of the last days is so confused and full of false theories, that you can't even ask a sensible question.

You're the one who wrote....
"The glorious Return and Armageddon is referred to in Revelation 16:14, as the Great Day of Almighty God. Again, just a single day."

The question was made in regards to your statement that Armageddon is just a single day. The armies assemble at Armageddon to fight Jesus - all on the single day ? Your statement is flawed - obviously. It takes time for the armies to assemble at Armageddon. And the kings of the earth have to be motivated to do so. It is not a one day affair.

The Day of the Lord is not a single day. And it is not the day of the wrath of the Lamb. And how the term the day of the wrath of the Lamb is used in the sixth seal, it is not a single day, although the judgment with take place the day Jesus descends down to earth.

 

[Riberra]

The armies assemble at Armageddon to fight Jesus - all on the single day ?

30 or 40 days must be needed to assemble all the armies of the world for the Armageddon battle.Revelation 16:14-16

Even with that in mind it will still be impossible at that moment for those alive to pinpoint the exact day of Jesus Second Coming....

Revelation 16
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Riberra]

The Day of Jesus' Return to reign for 1000 years, will not be unexpected for us, as we know He will come exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated by the AC.

There is no certitude that the return of Jesus will be exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated by the AC...Because Jesus said that these days of the great tribulation (reign of the beast)will be shortened...By how much days is the question ?

 

[Douggg]

There is no certitude that the return of Jesus will be exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated by the AC...Because Jesus said that these days of the great tribulation (reign of the beast)will be shortened...By how much days is the question ?

Well, keras is wrong on several accounts. One is that neither the AoD, nor the transgression of desolation takes place on the exact midpoint day of 1260.

The days of the great tribulation as not lessened in number. Nor in length of 24 hrs in a day. It is just saying that the days of the Great Tribulation will be limited - cut short of killing every living thing on earth.

 

[Douggg]

30 or 40 days must be needed to assemble all the armies of the world for the Armageddon battle.Revelation 16:14-16

Even with that in mind it will still be impossible at that moment for those alive to pinpoint the exact day of Jesus Second Coming....

Well, the evil men of the world probably won't be able to figure it out. They will be preoccupied with preparing to fight Jesus anyway.

But if someone were able to read this post in that day. 1290 days from the day the AoD is setup to be worshiped - the heavens will part and the world will see Jesus before the throne of God.

45 days from then, Jesus will descend to earth and destroy those armies.

day 1...................day 1185(AoD setup)<<<<<<<<<<1335 days<<<<<day 2520 (Jesus Returns)

day 1...................day 1185>>>>>>>1290 days>>>>>>>day 2475 (heavens part)

.................................................................................... day 2475>>>>45 days>>>>day 2520 (Jesus Returns)

 

[Riberra]

The days of the great tribulation as not lessened in number. It is just saying that the days of the Great Tribulation will be limited - cut short of killing every living thing on earth.

Explain how the days of the reign of the Beast can be limited -be cut short- ....without being lessened in number ?

 

[Douggg]

Explain how the days of the reign of the Beast can be limited -be cut short- ....without being lessened in number ?

What is the basis for you saying the days of the reign of the Beast? It is the great tribulation that is cut short of every living thing on earth being wiped out. The great tribulation is tied to the abomination of desolation setup. And the abomination of desolation lasts a specific number of days - 1335 days, until the day Jesus returns. It is not cut short in number of days. It is that it will be limited - cut short of every living thing being wiped out.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.