Let's clear up the Eschatology Scripture?

[keras]

It's 70 years since 1967, Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews.
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I hope you record your statement about before 2018 is the Day of the Lord's vengeance - so you can just admit your wrong to everyone here. You have a little over a year left.

I do not agree that 1967 is the start point of 'within your lifetime', Ezekiel 12:25 That date must be the establishment of the State of Israel: May 1948
Its hardly possible for 2037 to be the commencement of the end times events. No, the Lord's Day of wrath could be tomorrow, only because He is not willing that any should perish, it delays. 2 Peter 3:9

We were discussing the contradiction of scripture the translators have introduced by using the word 'escape' in Luke 21:36

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

only because He is not willing that any should perish, it delays.

HE takes no pleasure in the death of anyone, even the wicked evil ones.

But it is written someplace [SCRIPTURE], from YHWH,
that as soon as the last MARTYR has been beheaded(or otherwise killed)
THEN HE will execute HIS VENGEANCE quickly.

 

[Douggg]

I do not agree that 1967 is the start point of 'within your lifetime', Ezekiel 12:25 That date must be the establishment of the State of Israel: May 1948
Its hardly possible for 2037 to be the commencement of the end times events.

2037 is not the commencement of the 70th week. 2037 will be the completion of the 70th week at the latest. Which in turn, the 70th week must begin 2030 or earlier.

1967+70 years for a generation = 2037 completion at the latest.
minus the 7 years = 2030, that the 70th week begins at the latest.

1948+70 years for a generation =2018 completion at the latest
minus the 7 years = 2011, that the 70th week begins at the latest
DID NOT HAPPEN.

 

[keras]

1948+70 years for a generation =2018 completion at the latest
minus the 7 years = 2011, that the 70th week begins at the latest
DID NOT HAPPEN.

I didn't say the last seven years would be completed by 2018. I see that time from 2023 to 2030
My understanding is that the last days events will commence before 2019 starts, commencing with the Sixth Seal. We will soon see.

We were discussing the contradiction of scripture the translators have introduced by using the word 'escape' in Luke 21:36

The REB does not use 'escape', it correctly says 'pass safely through', that matches with the many prophesies saying how the Lord will protect His people through all that must come before His Return. NOT a rapture removal, such a thing isn't even hinted.

 

[Riberra]

No,it doesn't. It means the rapture takes place in the generation that sees the Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews.**
And likewise the great tribulation with take place in that generation, which ends with the Kingdom of God being brought to earth, as those things of the end times take place.

**Your wishful thinking play tricks on your interpretation of what is written .

The subject matter is not about a rapture to Heaven before the tribulation but about the establishment of Jesus' Kingdom on the Earth that will be fulfilled in that generation Luke 21:31-32.

Look up for your redemption (of your bodies in the rapture) draws near is the watching in Luke 21:36, to be found worthy to stand before the son of Man to escape the great tribulation that will take place here on earth.

That is the reference to the resurrection of the faithful dead believers whose SOULS are in Heaven Luke 21:19 and the changing of the believers still alive and remain [ie ,who have survived the tribulation] unto the Coming of Jesus ....
Our redemption is tied to the Coming of Jesus and the establishment of His Earthly Kingdom Luke 21:31-32 /because we will reign with Him here on the Earth..../

 

[Douggg]

Our redemption is tied to the Coming of Jesus and the establishment of His Earthly Kingdom Luke 21:31-32 /because we will reign with Him here on the Earth..../

Jude1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

 

[Riberra]

Jude1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

The SOULS of the Saints are in Heaven.At death the SOULS of the faithful believers (ie ,dead/sleep in Christ) goes to Heaven.

Revelation 19:11-14
....
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

 

[Douggg]

The REB does not use 'escape', it correctly says 'pass safely through', that matches with the many prophesies saying how the Lord will protect His people.

A good reason not to use the REB.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

2thessalonians2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

he - Jesus, the body of Christ, the collective body of believers, will be taken out of the way.

But ... if you want to go through the great tribulation, it is your choice..... depress others with your words. Post tribbers as well... depress others with your words. Runs contrary to the bible.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Douggg]

The SOULS of the Saints are in Heaven.At death the SOULS of the faithful believers (ie ,dead/sleep in Christ) goes to Heaven.

Revelation 19:11-14
....
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

No, they are not coming for the rapture/resurrection. They are the bride of Christ, returning with him to reign and rule.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

http://endtimepilgrim.org/corrie.htm
..."...So Corrie's message here is "a word to the wise". It should be regarded by all serious Christians as crucially important information. Without this "heads-up" Christians in the West will be left unprepared. They are unwittingly being set up for a fall, even a Great Falling Away or a Great Apostasy.

This is most unfortunate. We serve a loving God who has promised to keep His covenant people from the wrath to come. But He does tell them that 'in this world you will have tribulation' which is entirely different.

Christian believers in China and elsewhere know and understand these things implicitly. They understand and accept blood covenant Christianity. These dear saints have entered into a serendipity. It is something which we in the Western Laodicean Church know little about right now. But our brothers and sisters in the Suffering Church over in places abroad are traveling up on that higher pathway, that Highway of Holiness. (Isa. 35) Theses dear saints are not trying to avoid the Way of the cross. So, why should we be angry at this message or offended by this High Calling?" ..

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

In China, the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated – raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,

"We have failed.
We should have made the people strong for persecution,
rather than telling them Jesus would come first.
Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution,
how to stand when the tribulation comes,
– to stand and not faint."

I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation. There is no way to escape it.
We are next.

Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus' sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, "Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation." Then I write it down and learn it by heart.

When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, "Nothing could be any worse than today." But we would find the next day was even worse.

 

[Riberra]

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 3:10 is taken out of context by the pre-tribbers. When you read completely the sentence which include verse 11 and verse 12 you get a different picture.

Revelation 3:10-12
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

2thessalonians2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

he - Jesus, the body of Christ, the collective body of believers, will be taken out of the way.

He- GOD THE FATHER hold and limit Satan in his activity...when the time will come God will not hold Satan anymore.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

That will happen UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS...ie when Jesus will come to Establish His Kingdom on the Earth.We will be forever with Jesus here on the Earth to reign with Him.

 

[Douggg]

http://endtimepilgrim.org/corrie.htm
..."...So Corrie's message here is "a word to the wise". It should be regarded by all serious Christians as crucially important information. Without this "heads-up" Christians in the West will be left unprepared. They are unwittingly being set up for a fall, even a Great Falling Away or a Great Apostasy.

This is most unfortunate. We serve a loving God who has promised to keep His covenant people from the wrath to come. But He does tell them that 'in this world you will have tribulation' which is entirely different.

Christian believers in China and elsewhere know and understand these things implicitly. They understand and accept blood covenant Christianity. These dear saints have entered into a serendipity. It is something which we in the Western Laodicean Church know little about right now. But our brothers and sisters in the Suffering Church over in places abroad are traveling up on that higher pathway, that Highway of Holiness. (Isa. 35) Theses dear saints are not trying to avoid the Way of the cross. So, why should we be angry at this message or offended by this High Calling?" ..

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

In China, the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated – raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,

"We have failed.
We should have made the people strong for persecution,
rather than telling them Jesus would come first.
Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution,
how to stand when the tribulation comes,
– to stand and not faint."

I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation. There is no way to escape it.
We are next.

Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus' sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, "Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation." Then I write it down and learn it by heart.

When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, "Nothing could be any worse than today." But we would find the next day was even worse.

I am sticking with what the bible says and Jesus's words. You can have your own agenda. Discourage others with your words.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 3:10 is taken out of context by the pre-tribbers. When you read completely the sentence which include verse 11 and verse 12 you get a different picture.

Revelation 3:10-12
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


He- GOD THE FATHER hold and limit Satan in his activity...when the time will come God will not hold Satan anymore.



That will happen UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS...ie when Jesus will come to Establish His Kingdom on the Earth.We will be forever with Jesus here on the Earth to reign with Him.

Discourage others with your words. Which is why communicating with post-tribbers is like talking to a brick wall.
You want to go through the great tribulation - that's your choice. But don't be trying to drag others along with you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I am sticking with what the bible says and Jesus's words. You can have your own agenda. Discourage others with your words.

Discourage ? No.
Corrie ten Boom's whole life is one of faithfulness and encouragement.
YHWH'S WORD also- and shows GREAT JOY even in any tribulation.

The chinese believers were horrified and discouraged
because they IGNORED the BIBLE same as you are ignoring.
They were slaughtered and were not prepared.

They also had not believed YHWH'S WORD, as you do not.
And they suffered greatly for it - the ones who were slaughtered,
and the ones who remain.

 

[Douggg]

They also had not believed YHWH'S WORD, as you do not.
And they suffered greatly for it - the ones who were slaughtered,
and the ones who remain.

They suffered because of persecution by others. Not whether they believed they would not be persecuted.

 

[Riberra]

Discourage others with your words. Which is why communicating with post-tribbers is like talking to a brick wall.
You want to go through the great tribulation - that's your choice. But don't be trying to drag others along with you.

The belief in the pre-tribulation rapture to Heaven false doctrine (Darbites followers), will let you totally unprepared when you will realize that no rapture to Heaven will happen and that you will have to go through the tribulation (if you are alive)....You will be totally desperate and so angry against God (who in reality have never promised an easy way out)that you will be at risk to fall in the great apostasy who is prophesied to come before the revealing of the man of sin ... -exactly what Satan wants.-

 

[Douggg]

The belief in the false pre-tribulation rapture will let you totally unprepared when you will realize that no rapture to Heaven will happen....You will be totally desperate and so angry against God that you will be at risk to fall in the great apostasy who is prophesied to come before the revealing of the man of sin ... -exactly what Satan wants.-

Yes, discourage others with your words. Keep going. That's what post trib is all about.

I am not pre-trib. I am anytime rapture view...look below my screename to the left. Anytime between now and when it does. The rapture may not take place pre-70th week, but it may. And it may take place in the new few minutes. But it will happen before the transgression of desolation act, of the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God.

 

[Riberra]

The rapture may not take place pre-70th week, but it may. And it may take place in the new few minutes. But it will happen before the transgression of desolation act, of the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God.

The Bible tell us that this is the falling away from the faith (Apostasy) that will happen before the revealing of the man of sin.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[Douggg]

The Bible tell us that this is the falling away from the faith (Apostasy) that will happen before the revealing of the man of sin.

So? There will be the falling away from believing Jesus is the messiah. And then the transgression of desolation, by the Antichrist, revealing himself as the man of sin. Which begins the Day of Christ (the Day of the Lord).

The rapture will take place before the Day of Christ (the Day of the Lord).

 

[Riberra]

So?

So,those like you who promote that our gathering unto Jesus can happen at any moment goes against the warning made by Paul ....which place you into the category of false teachers trying (willingly or not) to deceive people as mentioned in verse 3

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;