Let us talk masturbation.

[JojotheBeloved]

It doesn't even say you have to be married to commit adultery with lust. If you have any sexual feelings and act on them about a woman that you aren't married to, even if you are single, according to that bible verse, it's still lust and therefore considered adultery.


I've already explained that on the last page.

""But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." -Matthew 5:28

So if you are looking at or even thinking about a person while doing it, then according to the bible, you are committing adultery, which is a big sin. And I've never heard of somebody masterbating without lusting, you only get turned on when you are sexually attracted to something. And if you act on it, that's lusting.[FONT=Corbel, Verdana, sans-serif]"[/FONT]

The biblical understanding of adultery is different than that. In the culture in which the Bible was written and first understood, adultery had everything to do with male ownership of their wives. For a man to commit adultery was for him to engage in sexual acts with a woman who was married to another man. The adultery was more theivery of another man's wife/property. It was also a double-standard, because for a woman to commit adultery was for her to sexually betray her own husband in any way. If a man had sex with a woman who was not his own wife but was also not anyone else's wife it was not considered adultery. To be clear, I do not believe this definition of adultery was God's idea, but was a cultural understanding of the time. So when Jesus said that even to lust after a woman is commit adultery in your heart, that is to contradict the wrong ideas of the culture that women are property or that men are exempt from sexual immorality as it applies to women.

 

[OGM]

A boyfriend of mine once told me this was a very undesireable option - to just allow the body to clean itself out - because by that point the "desire" to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] becomes physically painful for some men;

Your boyfriend is correct. The "self-cleaning" mechanism is not always the most reliable.

and who really wants to wake up with wet sheets anyway?

Exactly...the body can naturally empty it's bladder during sleep as well. However most adults I know would not want to wake up wet.

 

[Cearbhall]

Instead, what we have is an astonishingly immature generation coming through the church who are a result of laissez-faire "parenting" and youth groups that spend more time entertaining the kids than actually training them for real life. Playstation at home, more Playstation at church, yay! As a result it is taking longer than it should to have the necessary maturity to settle down. I could go on but it would be a long winded rant so I'll stop here.

Immature? That's not what determines the median age at first marriage. It has to do with the strength of the economy and the level of educational attainment that is necessary to have financial stability. Throughout history, people generally have waited until they can support themselves and start their own households before marrying. I don't see the value in encouraging people to buy houses or have children they can't afford or get married when they might still have to move back in with their parents.

We take on certain adult responsibilities later than past generations because we don't need to take them on sooner. There's no need for a middle class kid to be ready for marriage at 18 when he won't be done with his education until 22 (at least), and there's no need to get married young when the life expectancy is nearly 80. There's also the fact that not everyone wants to get married and "settle down," and no one should feel pressured to go down that particular path. That's not the default end-goal for a child.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Even urging children to choose their future career path at such a young age that we tend to force on them is kind of weird to me... the idea that 18 year olds should be trying to marry and "settle down" is downright scary.

I have a lot to learn about myself before I dare get into such a deep commitment with someone. I don't know of very many 18 year olds that have matured enough and learned enough about themselves and the world to commit to that, either.

Committing to something before you're ready can have very bad consequences.

 

[tomwhite84]

Immature? That's not what determines the median age at first marriage. It has to do with the strength of the economy and the level of educational attainment that is necessary to have financial stability. Throughout history, people generally have waited until they can support themselves and start their own households before marrying. I don't see the value in encouraging people to buy houses or have children they can't afford or get married when they might still have to move back in with their parents.

We take on certain adult responsibilities later than past generations because we don't need to take them on sooner. There's no need for a middle class kid to be ready for marriage at 18 when he won't be done with his education until 22 (at least), and there's no need to get married young when the life expectancy is nearly 80. There's also the fact that not everyone wants to get married and "settle down," and no one should feel pressured to go down that particular path. That's not the default end-goal for a child.

Marriage is a necessity for those who don't have the self-control to remain chaste. I am saying that is most people, men in particular. Therefore they need to prioritize that over their career, in order to avoid sinning. That is the mature thing to do.

 

[tomwhite84]

I know a lot of Christians that are not married. It isn't for lack of trying... If someone is working on their Masters or Doctorate, they usually will not get married at 18.

If they can remain chaste - and that is a big if, from what I have seen - then fine. Fact is though that most people are not entering marriage as virgins. Rather than pretend that this is not happening, I think it is time to reevaluate priorities: put marriage before career.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Rushing into marriage just because a person has strong sexual urges seems like it would be a very bad idea.

I thought marriage was supposed to be about a relationship, not about "I need sex so bad here marry me so we can do it".

 

[Cearbhall]

Marriage is a necessity for those who don't have the self-control to remain chaste. I am saying that is most people, men in particular. Therefore they need to prioritize that over their career, in order to avoid sinning. That is the mature thing to do.

If they grow into adults who hold those beliefs regarding sex (and the majority in the US do not), they're free to make the decision to abstain from sexual activity. It's just a religious choice, not a mature choice.

 

[tomwhite84]

Rushing into marriage just because a person has strong sexual urges seems like it would be a very bad idea.

If they don't have the self-control for celibacy, than they are going to rush into something sinful instead. I am saying most young adults do not have the self-control to remain chaste. That probably explains the popularity of this thread, and why we live in a culture where fornication is predominant.

And yeah, it would be a bad idea for a lot of people because again, a lot of younger people are way less mature than they really ought to be. This is because they haven't been trained for adulthood properly. The church needs to deal with this better than it has been.

I thought marriage was supposed to be about a relationship, not about "I need sex so bad here marry me so we can do it".

St Paul says that it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

 

[tomwhite84]

If they grow into adults who hold those beliefs regarding sex (and the majority in the US do not), they're free to make the decision to abstain from sexual activity. It's just a religious choice, not a mature choice.

"Religion" is reality, provided we are talking the Bible.

Being out of touch with reality is not mature.

 

[Cearbhall]

Rushing into marriage just because a person has strong sexual urges seems like it would be a very bad idea.

Yeah, I don't see how divorce and a broken family are better than having an adult sexual relationship of which your parents don't approve...

"Religion" is reality, provided we are talking the Bible.

I see that you're new here. I completely respect your right to your own religious beliefs and I always do my best to avoid passive aggressive comments that imply everyone agrees with me. We have icons in our profiles for a reason. These sorts of replies aren't very productive.

 

[tomwhite84]

Yeah, I don't see how divorce and a broken family are better than having an adult sexual relationship of which your parents don't approve...

It is not marrying young, or taking responsibility for your sexual desires and getting married in order to fulfill them in a godly way, that leads to divorce and broken family. It is sin that does.

 

[Cearbhall]

It is not marrying young, or taking responsibility for your sexual desires and getting married in order to fulfill them in a godly way, that leads to divorce and broken family. It is sin that does.

If they don't hold your beliefs, I don't see how they have any personal obligation or responsibility to act according to them.

 

[tomwhite84]

I see that you're new here. I completely respect your right to your own religious beliefs and I always do my best to avoid passive aggressive comments that imply everyone agrees with me. We have icons in our profiles for a reason. These sorts of comments aren't very productive.

This is Christian Forums. I assume people are here to discuss Christianity. I think that is a reasonable assumption.

 

[Cearbhall]

This is Christian Forums. I assume people are here to discuss Christianity. I think that is a reasonable assumption.

Discussing and believing are completely different things. Again, we have icons for a reason.

If I were having a discussion with someone who I knew was Muslim and I said "You mean to say the Messiah" when he said "The prophet Jesus," that would be rather silly, wouldn't it?

 

[tomwhite84]

Discussing and believing are completely different things. Again, we have icons for a reason.

OK, well I think there's not much more to discuss and you can believe what you will. Have a good day.

 

[KitKatMatt]

If they don't have the self-control for celibacy, than they are going to rush into something sinful instead. I am saying most young adults do not have the self-control to remain chaste. That probably explains the popularity of this thread, and why we live in a culture where fornication is predominant.

And yeah, it would be a bad idea for a lot of people because again, a lot of younger people are way less mature than they really ought to be. This is because they haven't been trained for adulthood properly. The church needs to deal with this better than it has been.



St Paul says that it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

It's not a matter of "the church" teaching people how to be adults, it's a matter of the human brain not being fully developed until the mid 20's. 18-year-olds can still be emotionally immature (and even several years after that, as well), and marriage is something that requires much level-headed thought, time, communication, trust, and maturity to work well.

Is it better to marry to avoid "burn(ing) with passion" and divorce two years later because you married the wrong person for all the wrong reasons?

 

[Rhamiel]

masturbation is sinful

sexuality is for creating a bond between husband and wife and for procreation

masturbation is a missuse of human sexuality just as bulimia is a missuse of appetite

 

[Kingsdotter]

The fact that u need a mental or physical picture e.g. Porn to touch(most times) means that u have joined yourself to the characters in your mind. It means that u have participated in their sexual act and derived pleasure from it. The bible says "Guard ur heart with all delligence for out of it flows the issues of life"

Also here are a few things to think about

- When u please yourself u do not honour God with your body, as your body is not meant for sexual immorality

- For some people masturbation can increasing get less satisfying with frequency and some proceed to other distorted forms of sexual activities

- The guilt feelings is always there for most people. It's not easy to shake off and u feel further away from God

- It affects your spiritual life negatively as fleshly pleasure weakens the Holy spirit's activity in your life.

Please read 1 cor 6: 12 - 20
God bless.

 

[KitKatMatt]

The guilt is CAUSED by the way children are raised in religious circles. You are taught early to feel guilty about your body, and touching yourself. Guilt about masturbation is not a natural feeling.

Sex even between a married couple can increasingly get less satisfying with frequency, leading to the couple needing to "spice things up" in the bedroom. This does not mean that what they do are "distorted forms of sexual activities", it's just like when someone chooses a new and exotic meal after eating the same old one over and over and becoming tired of it. The same applies to masturbation.