Legalism or Sunday keeping - what is the mark?

tatteredsoul · Nov 4, 2016

BobRyan said:
I think this is the real substance in the intent for this thread. Speaks for itself.

Proof:

the "mark of the beast" is only mentioned in 2 or 3 chapters in the entire Bible -- and not a single one of them is quoted by the author of this thread.

The idea seems to be that to mock the Bible - by not quoting it at all to make these little "oink" comments -- nor even in the OP - is the "preferred path" of the author of the thread.

I prefer the Bible "instead".

Those who wish to simply mock the Bible - can have their thread to themselves.

I have said this so many times:

If God said the sky is red, it is red. If God says do something, we do it.

It doesn't matter if Gabriel, Michael, Moses, Paul, Noah, Enoch, Raphael, Uriel, Heylel, or Azazel* say different, they are categorically wrong.

We got this "game" wrong the first time when God clearly laid down His law for Eden, and we believed the serpent*, abdicating our God-given dominion on this planet. Adam went so far as to BLAME God for giving him Eve, denying responsibility! We are still trusting lesser authorities over God!

*(In Enoch, it was Azazel, not the generalized "satan/lucifer" who used an avatar serpent to tempt eve. He was a leader angel in the assault and rape of human women to produce hybrids in an attempt to pollute all human genetics so that the Christ wouldn't be born. In other apocrypha, Azazel has always been seen with a serpent as his avatar. Azazel IS the "Lucifer" people actually think about - highly intelligent beautiful, but prideful. In Islam, Iblis (Azazel) refused to bow to Adam, and that conflagrated his prideful rebellion.)

tatteredsoul · Nov 4, 2016

bloodygrace said:
For all those who live outside the very small world of Messianics, Hebrew roots and SDA - Sunday is known as the day Christ rose from the grave on. The fact that sun worship took place historically on that day does not diminish the fact that Christ chose that day to rise from the grave in victory over sin and death. Sabbath or Saturn-day also has a pagan history but we never hear about that.

No, PASSOVER is the day Christ died, and firstfruits is the day of His resurrection. Always has been planned that way.

It depends on Exodus 12, and the following of what a month, new year and day is. It is not based on Julian calendar systems. It is based on celestial mechanics so that you don't have to worry about an 11.2 day time drift because of inexact time keeping.

Sun worship took place on the FIRST day of the week. Again, these days even and especially for druids and other religions was NOT based on a man-made calendar system. It was based on astronomy and astrology.

The SABBATH described by God has NO pagan history at all. The Sabbath as described by the bible was made at creation. Men have corrupted the Sabbath.

According to approximations in 33AD, if the barley was green on or before March 19, 0033, then the first day of the first month of the new year began on the new moon (19th.) Then, March 19, 0033 at sundown is Nissan 1. That means Wednesday at Sundown was the Weekly Sabbath, and Passover occurred on a weekly Sabbath - Wednesday, April 1, 0033.

Firstfruits would have been a "time, time and a half" after Passover, happening sometime during the day on Saturday, April 4 0033 during the DAY.

That is just in 0033, and if we choose the new moon on March 19, 0033 - when presumptive the barley is green. Usually we take the new moon AFTER the equinox.

The Sabbath is independent of the gregorian or Julian calendar system. The Hebrews, druids, phoenecians, sumerians, and some pagans used the celestial guides for time keeping.

The Sunday/Saturday issue goes well beyond the days. It has become an issue of obedience vs law keeping.

BobRyan · Nov 4, 2016

tatteredsoul said:
I have said this so many times:

If God said the sky is red, it is red. If God says do something, we do it....

*(In Enoch, it was Azazel, not the generalized "satan/lucifer" who used an avatar serpent to tempt eve. He was a leader angel in the assault and rape of human women )

Well good thing we don't have to pay any attention to that mythology in Enoch and can just stick with what God said in the actual Bible.

bloodygrace · Nov 4, 2016

The issue is not Sabbath/Sunday as so many want to make it into. The issue is Law/Gospel or whether we live by faith in Christ or human performance. Faith vs. works has always been the real issue.

tatteredsoul · Nov 4, 2016

And keep in mind VERY FEW people actually know if they are genetic Hebrews. So, the argument that "as a gentile..." you don't have to follow God's laws from the OT is misleading and disingenuous. It erroneously rides on the idea that only Hebrews are required to follow all of God''s law because he said so, and us gentiles can disobey them because [we think] we are gentile and [we think] the previous laws of God don't apply - only the law of Love.

Well, the Law of love (especially parental) has always had a significant clause that states that one is obedient out of love, not out of fear. You do it because of respect and devotion.

I would rather follow all the laws as best as I can than neglect some I have been told aren't applicable - especially when Christ or God don't EVER say any of their word is null, void or inactive.

I challenge anyone to show me where Christ or God themselves - from their own mouth - said God's word and law is not to be followed by Gentiles, and that the OT laws are not applicable to gentiles, and only for Hebrews.

There are a lot of practices that "require the temple," but somehow are commanded to be ongoing for generation after generation.

BobRyan · Nov 4, 2016

bloodygrace said:
For all those who live outside the very small world of Messianics, Hebrew roots and SDA - Sunday is known as the day Christ rose from the grave on. The fact that sun worship took place historically on that day does not diminish the fact that Christ chose that day to rise from the grave .

no one here is arguing that Christ did not rise on what the Bible calls week-day-1.

BobRyan · Nov 4, 2016

bloodygrace said:
The issue is not Sabbath/Sunday as so many want to make it into. The issue is Law/Gospel

The Gospel says the LAW of God is written on the heart under the NEW Covenant - Jeremiah 31:31-33

tatteredsoul · Nov 4, 2016

BobRyan said:
Well good thing we don't have to pay any attention to that mythology in Enoch and can just stick with what God said in the actual Bible.

You are right Bob. And, you make a good point.

You can disagree with me and my view of the Apocrypha because there is enough information in the canon to answer the questions about God, and what He demands of us. This is why these issues of following God's law, calling it "legalism" are so weird, and downright abrasive.

bloodygrace · Nov 4, 2016

BobRyan said:
The Gospel says the LAW of God is written on the heart under the NEW Covenant - Jeremiah 31:31-33

And Paul says the law is spiritual - Rom. 7:14

The ten commandments are carnal and fleshly and a ministry of death and condemnation and Moses smashed them to bits in a fit of anger.

BobRyan · Nov 4, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
If you really consider yourself to be "the smartest guy in the room," why do you ignore or sidestep the questions asked of you?

Did your questions require attention to Bible details?
If so then you might not get them answered if the one you are asking is not inclined to highly value "Bible details".

Sometimes you will read a post where the person only quotes themselves or quotes mythology against the Bible. That is a big clue as to whether questions that deal with "Bible details" are going to be addressed by such a POV.

Isaiah 8:20 promotes "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine this way "To the LAW and to the testimony - if they speak not according to this world - they have no light" Is 8:20

bloodygrace · Nov 4, 2016

BobRyan said:
Did your questions require attention to Bible details?
If so then you might not get them answered if the one you are asking is not inclined to highly value "Bible details".

Sometimes you will read a post where the person only quotes themselves or quotes mythology against the Bible. That is a big clue as to whether questions that deal with "Bible details" are going to be addressed by such a POV.

Isaiah 8:20 promotes "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine this way "To the LAW and to the testimony - if they speak not according to this world - they have no light" Is 8:20

Or posts from you that are nothing more than copy/paste proof texts that don't prove anything.

Kenny'sID · Nov 4, 2016

bloodygrace said:
This thread is on legalism or Sunday being the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast is the worst sin we can commit and the worst recorded sin that ever took place in the bible the crucifixion of Christ by his own people. These people were Sabbath keepers who had healthy diets and took great pride in their law-keeping. This isn't that hard to figure out

See what you did there? you equated those some would see as scum to Sabbath keepers, never even mentioning that tons of good people kept the Sabbath too.

How many lows have you now stooped to make your point? But once again, that's what happens when someone is desperate for backing for an unbackable point.

Your logic just left the building...again.

BobRyan · Nov 4, 2016

bloodygrace said:
And Paul says the law is spiritual - Rom. 7:14

Indeed and the LAW Paul quotes from in Romans 7 -- is the Ten Commandments -- the "Holy Just and good" -- Ten Commandments.

The ten commandments are carnal and fleshly

In your "quotes of you" they are - but not in the actual Bible.

bloodygrace · Nov 4, 2016

Kenny'sID said:
See what you did there? you equated scum to Sabbath keepers, never even mentioning that tons of good people kept the Sabbath too.

How many lows have you now stooped to make your point? But once again, that's what happens when someone is desperate for backing for their unbackable point.

Your logic just left the building...again.

I never used the word 'scum'. You are falsely accusing me.

BobRyan · Nov 4, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
If you really consider yourself to be "the smartest guy in the room," why do you ignore or sidestep the questions asked of you?

Did your questions require attention to Bible details?
If so then you might not get them answered if the one you are asking is not inclined to highly value "Bible details".

Sometimes you will read a post where the person only quotes themselves or quotes mythology against the Bible. That is a big clue as to whether questions that deal with "Bible details" are going to be addressed by such a POV.

Isaiah 8:20 promotes "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine this way "To the LAW and to the testimony - if they speak not according to this world - they have no light" Is 8:20

bloodygrace said:
Or posts from you that are nothing more than copy/paste proof texts .

Texts that prove the points I am making are much preferred to "you quoting you" as far as substance goes.

The fact that you differ on this or that POV is of little importance. What matters is what the Word of God says.

bloodygrace · Nov 4, 2016

BobRyan said:
Indeed and the LAW Paul quotes from in Romans 7 -- is the Ten Commandments -- the "Holy Just and good" -- Ten Commandments.

How about Romans 7:6 -

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

bloodygrace · Nov 4, 2016

BobRyan said:
Texts that prove the points I am making are much preferred to "you quoting you" as far as substance goes.

The fact that you differ on this or that POV is of little importance. What matters is what the Word of God says.

I use more scripture in my posts than posters on this board.

Kenny'sID · Nov 4, 2016

bloodygrace said:
I never used the word 'scum'. You are falsely accusing me.

And I didn't say you did, you are falsely accusing me. i called them scum because to definitely implied they were low individuals, yet I didn't accuse you of such.

I keep telling you how your logic is failing you, and why.

So, you choose to skirt my point by dwelling on that?

Kenny'sID · Nov 4, 2016

bloodygrace said:
I use more scripture in my posts than posters on this board

And more often than not, completely irrelevant scripture. Not to mention it's become a riot how you won't answer questions, as least to me it has.

That really should tell you a lot but....

Dave-W · Nov 4, 2016

BobRyan said:
Did your questions require attention to Bible details?

Of course.

If so then you might not get them answered if the one you are asking is not inclined to highly value "Bible details".

Ah - I seem to assume (and I DO know how to spell that word) that my discussion opponents value scripture as much as I do. But that is a serious question about this guy .... He seems to have his mind made up whether it agrees with scripture or not. Or he finds a way to twist it around to fit his opinions.

Legalism or Sunday keeping - what is the mark?

What is the mark of the beast?

Sunday keeping

Legalism

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