Legalism Is Baffling

[trophy33]

It is relevant to use the broader context of what other books say on the same topic.

One sentence from another letter is not the broader context. The context is the situation in the church in Galatia and the letter to Galatia.

 

[trophy33]

In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. Why does it make sense to you to think that a defense of the truth of the Gospel is opposed to following truth instead of in accordance with it?

Its a song from the Old Covenant era. It should not be put against the teachings of Gospel in the New Covenant.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

So there is still a law which we must be obedient to, it is simply that the manner of our obedience has changed. God's law is an eternal one, and which stands as the basis for the old covenant law. So while we are not to look to the letter of the law, it still shows us the way we are to live when we look to it by the Spirit. We just must relate to it such that we recognize that its purpose has been fulfilled in Christ and not attempt to build our own righteousness from it.

I can see that my concerns may have been justified. To clarify, is there an "or else" attached to our required obedience to the law?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Its a song from the Old Covenant era. It should not be put against the teachings of Gospel in the New Covenant.

Gal 1:6-9 -- there is only one Gospel
Gal 3:8 "The Gospel was preached to Abraham"
Heb 4:2 "The Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"

 

[Fervent]

I can see that my concerns may have been justified. To clarify, is there an "or else" attached to our required obedience to the law?

To partially borrow from John, the "or else" would be the person who claims to believe the gospel but isn't obedient to the law is a liar and the truth is not in him. The issue here seems to be not one of obedience, but obedience to the law out of a spirit of fear or a spirit of thanksgiving to God. One is not the appropriate way to be obedient to the law, the other is. But still we must be obedient.

 

[trophy33]

Gal 1:6-9 -- there is only one Gospel
Gal 3:8 "The Gospel was preached to Abraham"
Heb 4:2 "The Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"

Yes. They knew about the coming kingdom of God, but they did not live in it. It came with Christ.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

To partially borrow from John, the "or else" would be the person who claims to believe the gospel but isn't obedient to the law is a liar and the truth is not in him. The issue here seems to be not one of obedience, but obedience to the law out of a spirit of fear or a spirit of thanksgiving to God. One is not the appropriate way to be obedient to the law, the other is. But still we must be obedient.

And how do we evade the law's requirements for complete obedience?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes. They knew about the coming kingdom of God, but they did not live in it. It came with Christ.

Same gospel, it has never changed.

 

[trophy33]

Same gospel, it has never changed.

So? Who said that gospel changed?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So? Who said that gospel changed?

myst33 said:
Its a song from the Old Covenant era. It should not be put against the teachings of Gospel in the New Covenant.

Same gospel, there is nothing to be put against. God's Truth and Righteousness does not change.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Notice what God said about obeying His commandments:

"Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you today; and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God". (Dt 11:26–28)​

There is a blessing for obedience and a curse for disobedience. Imposing God's commandments on yourself or on others only works for those who are obedient. It doesn't work for those who are disobedient. The second part is what is baffling about legalism. Why would anyone want that?

 

[Fervent]

And how do we evade the law's requirements for complete obedience?

By not looking for it to accomplish what it was never meant to accomplish in making us righteous. Our obedience does not come as an attempt to be right with God independent of the gospel, but as a consequence of believing the gospel. After all, faith without works is dead.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Notice what God said about obeying His commandments:

"Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you today; and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God". (Dt 11:26–28)​

There is a blessing for obedience and a curse for disobedience. Imposing God's commandments on yourself or on others only works for those who are obedient. It doesn't work for those who are disobedient. The second part is what is baffling about legalism. Why would anyone want that?

It doesn't work that way- we do not get to choose if God's commandments are not applicable to us or not, as it defines sin 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 Jesus does not want anyone to sin. 1 John 3:7–10 as we would be serving a different master 1 John 3:8. Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 not in them. He wants us to be overcomers and while we can't do that on our own, we can through Christ. Once Christ changes you, you want to obey because you love Him and have faith that what He asks is for our best interest. 1 John 5:3

 

[trophy33]

myst33 said:
Its a song from the Old Covenant era. It should not be put against the teachings of Gospel in the New Covenant.

Same gospel, there is nothing to be put against. God's Truth and Righteousness does not change.

You probably do not understand the word gospel. Gospel is the message that the kingdom of God has come (in Jesus Christ).

Old testament people heard about it in the form of prophecies, but did not live in it. They were given the law till the coming of Christ and their song is about the law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You probably do not understand the word gospel. Gospel is the message that the kingdom of God has come (in Jesus Christ).

Old testament people heard about it in the form of prophecies, but did not live in it.

I understand the gospel perfectly, but that has nothing to do with your previous statement.

 

[trophy33]

I understand the gospel perfectly, but that has nothing to do with your previous statement.

Perfectly? Then why dont you even recognize that law or psalm is not gospel?

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

By not looking for it to accomplish what it was never meant to accomplish in making us righteous. Our obedience does not come as an attempt to be right with God independent of the gospel, but as a consequence of believing the gospel. After all, faith without works is dead.

There is a sliver of a chance that we agree on this. Our righteousnes and holiness does not come from obedience. It comes from the new man being created according to God in true righteousness and holiness when Jesus came to live in our hearts (Eph 4:24).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Perfectly? Then why dont you even recognize that law or psalm is not gospel?

Your statement.....
Its a song from the Old Covenant era. It should not be put against the teachings of Gospel in the New Covenant.

I simply stated scripture which shows the gospel is the same in the OC era as it is in the NC era. God's Truth and Righteousness does not change.

Anyway, take care.

 

[trophy33]

Your statement.....
Its a song from the Old Covenant era. It should not be put against the teachings of Gospel in the New Covenant.

I simply stated scripture which shows the gospel is the same in the OC era as it is in the NC era. God's Truth and Righteousness does not change.

Anyway, take care.

The context of this conversation is the letter to Galatians, i.e. the New Covenant era.

 

[Fervent]

There is a sliver of a chance that we agree on this. Our righteousnes and holiness does not come from obedience. It comes from the new man being created according to God in true righteousness and holiness when Jesus came to live in our hearts (Eph 4:24).

I see nothing objectionable in that statement, but Christ's work is not to set us free from the law but to set us free from sin. Obedience to the law is not legalism, legalism is attempting to "get right" with God through obeying the law. We are already right with God through Christ's sacrifice on the cross, set free from sin so that we may fulfill the righteousness of the law. Sin's power over the law was disarmed at the cross, and through the gospel we may sing Psalm 119 in its entirety without shame because the law is no longer our accuser.