leave the Church?

[zaida]

Hi everyone - some of you might remember me from old posts. In a very big nutshell - I grew up secular, found Christ as an adult, found what I thought was my home in the episcopalian church, and then surprisingly found myself a few years ago called to join the Roman Catholic Church....I love being a Catholic...I love confession...the body and blood of our Lord...the witness of the saints....I love our current Pope.....I love the focus on charity....and I believe it is the historic Church.....

BUT from the start, I have lived with a very uneasy truce with the teachings on sexuality, and been able to avoid the issue - but my kids have reached an age when they are asking lots of questions (10 and 8 years old)....and I dont find myself teaching RC doctirne....I don't, in my heart, think that same sex relations are wrong or 'self abuse" (as the church calls it!) is wrong....I have told them gods highest plan is for men and women to marry, but some people are attracted to the same sex and we honor and love them too, and respect their relationships....but I just cant seem to say the word "disordered".....

I have really really really struggled with this...I don't take teachings lightly....I don't want to be a pick and choose Roman Catholic....but if I don't believe in the authority of the teaching - maybe I should leave....

I think it comes down to - do I believe that RC has the fullness of the faith, and correct doctrine - do I believe that dogma is always right? Should I be taking communion while having these struggles?

I also struggle with the authority of other churches/priests to give the body and blood of Christ...If I were to go back to the episcopalian church...

Im a bit sick with this!!!!

Blessings!

 

[MikeK]

I don't have any answers for you.

I don't really struggle personally with the Church's teachings on sexual matters at this time, but as my children grow I'm finding myself challenged when it comes to talking to them. I am finding that I don't /feel/ as though masturbation and premarital sex are categorically wrong, so teaching these things might be a challenge. I have a much easier time challenging or condemning myself than others, so maybe that's part of it. I may have to settle for framing the discussion in a "the Church teaches...." way. Should they express any interest in my life experiences I would be happy to share them with them, but in my experience these sins can come with neutral or even positive consequences, so that makes the talk difficult.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Leviticus 18:22
Acts 15:23-29
Romans 1:26-32
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Read these passages sincerely. Don't deflect towards the other sins, for we know that they are terrible sins as well; key words being as well. You cannot read these passages honestly and say that same sex relations are not wrong according to God. And then, of course, Church teaching, which is based on Scripture and Tradition.

This isn't meant to said offensively, but who are you to know better? Was God wrong in the Law? Were the disciples wrong at the Council of Jerusalem in which they wrote their letter to churches living ignorantly? Was Paul wrong in Romans and 1 Corinthians?

 

[zaida]

you know what...Im sure the Church is more likely to be right than me - Im just acknowledging what I truly feel in my heart....believe me Ive been going round in circles with this....I cant pretend to I believe what I dont...the best I can do, as the first responder said ....teach my kids what the Church says...but also let them know my own struggles....

 

[Gwendolyn]

Hi Zaida,

I am not sure that there is an answer to your question, beyond being clear about Church teaching.

Years ago, when I first began severely doubting the existence of God, it became even more difficult than usual to attend mass. I was already suffering panic attacks (being out in public, and being in crowds is very, very difficult for me), and those were only compounded by the threat of hell and the realisation that God could be a construct of my own mind (not looking to debate - just reporting my thoughts). I couldn't in good conscience continue receiving the Eucharist when I just didn't feel fully Catholic anymore.

Catholic sexual morality is difficult to understand - or believe in - for most people. The sexual drive is strong in almost everyone, whether you believe in biological imperatives or evolutionary drives or not. But for Catholicism, sexuality was made to reach its fulfillment in only one form: married, heterosexual relationships, free from any interference in intercourse. The drive is hard to reconcile with that, especially when children reach phases of sexual maturity and it will be at least 10 years before they could even marry.

So I understand why it's difficult for many people to feel that most expressions of sexuality are immoral. I cannot tell you what to tell your children. Just ensure that they understand that urges are normal - they happen to everyone - but that the Church says they must learn to control their urges. It might even be okay to explain what the Church teaches while saying that many people, including you, struggle with these teachings.

People say that the best way to counter doubt or disagreement is to keep attending mass. Really, I'm not sure there is much you can do aside from waiting, observing, and reflecting on Church teaching. Maybe something will finally "click" (that is what I am hoping). Maybe it won't. I don't think admitting your own uncertainties is problematic, so long as you want to keep trying.

 

[Angeldove97]

As a teacher in a Catholic school, I was taught to share viewpoints by using phrases like: "The Catholic Church teaches..." or "My viewpoint is...". If you want to teach your children what the Catholic Church believes, then I would phrase it as such. When you want to teach your children what you personally believe, phrase it accordingly.

If you don't know why or really why get the Church teaches what it does, seek out resources. I really like this one on homosexuality: Homosexuality | Catholic Answers

But the bottom line is this: we are each a divine gift from God - while we are called to not live in sin, ultimately each of us deserves and has God's love, and since we are called to be Christ-like, we are called to love others like He loves them.

 

[Michie]

I can relate. I've been pondering the same thing lately. Not much advise but thought I would comment so I could subscribe & keep up on the thread. Prayers for you.

Hi everyone - some of you might remember me from old posts. In a very big nutshell - I grew up secular, found Christ as an adult, found what I thought was my home in the episcopalian church, and then surprisingly found myself a few years ago called to join the Roman Catholic Church....I love being a Catholic...I love confession...the body and blood of our Lord...the witness of the saints....I love our current Pope.....I love the focus on charity....and I believe it is the historic Church.....

BUT from the start, I have lived with a very uneasy truce with the teachings on sexuality, and been able to avoid the issue - but my kids have reached an age when they are asking lots of questions (10 and 8 years old)....and I dont find myself teaching RC doctirne....I don't, in my heart, think that same sex relations are wrong or 'self abuse" (as the church calls it!) is wrong....I have told them gods highest plan is for men and women to marry, but some people are attracted to the same sex and we honor and love them too, and respect their relationships....but I just cant seem to say the word "disordered".....

I have really really really struggled with this...I don't take teachings lightly....I don't want to be a pick and choose Roman Catholic....but if I don't believe in the authority of the teaching - maybe I should leave....

I think it comes down to - do I believe that RC has the fullness of the faith, and correct doctrine - do I believe that dogma is always right? Should I be taking communion while having these struggles?

I also struggle with the authority of other churches/priests to give the body and blood of Christ...If I were to go back to the episcopalian church...

Im a bit sick with this!!!!

Blessings!

 

[pdudgeon]

As a teacher in a Catholic school, I was taught to share viewpoints by using phrases like: "The Catholic Church teaches..." or "My viewpoint is...". If you want to teach your children what the Catholic Church believes, then I would phrase it as such. When you want to teach your children what you personally believe, phrase it accordingly.

If you don't know why or really why get the Church teaches what it does, seek out resources. I really like this one on homosexuality: Homosexuality | Catholic Answers

But the bottom line is this: we are each a divine gift from God - while we are called to not live in sin, ultimately each of us deserves and has God's love, and since we are called to be Christ-like, we are called to love others like He loves them.

THIS ^^^^

as for your own beliefs you could always tell your children that you're still working on them ( which you are).
that way the kids have the teaching of the church and they also know that coming into agreement with those teachings is a process that we all go through.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt. But my advise is that you tell your children what the Church teaches and keep your personal opinions to yourself if they contradict what the Church teaches. The Church is right even if it is hard for us to understand it. Don't pass on what you struggle with to your children. Feelings are often deceptive, and our conscience is only as good as one that is formed in accordance with the Catholic Church's teachings on faith and morals. If your conscience is telling you that you need to tell them your personal opinion even though it contradicts the Church then your conscience is wrong. We are not perfect. I struggle with sins. The Church tells us what to aim for while She understands that we will sometimes or often fall short. When that happens the Church has the Sacrament of Reconciliation. I believe that it's God's way of giving us a lesson on how to be humble. It's hard for me to boast of my righteousness when I know that I'm a sinner in need of God's mercy. The Catholic faith is reasonable.

 

[Open Heart]

you know what...Im sure the Church is more likely to be right than me - Im just acknowledging what I truly feel in my heart....believe me Ive been going round in circles with this....I cant pretend to I believe what I dont...the best I can do, as the first responder said ....teach my kids what the Church says...but also let them know my own struggles....

If you knew how much I struggle with, and yet remain catholic, you would put all questions of leaving the church happily out of your mind. I struggle with the very basics of christian teachings, but realize that I am very unhappy without them -- I make a very miserable unbeliever. So I choose to put my doubts aside. After all, who am I to think that I know it all? It sounds from what you have said that you are happy as a Catholic -- you don't want to throw that away.

Regarding teaching your children, it is something to be handled with care. Say the things that you can. If you must, say, "The Church teaches" rather than "This is so." If they really push for your private beliefs, handle it much the way you just handled it above -- say that you struggle with it, that you have doubts, but at the same time you have a lot of respect for the Church, which is more likely to be right than you as an individual. You'll be surprised how much they will respect you for that.

I suggest that you also open up a dialogue for learning exactly why the Church considers homosexuality to be disordered. She has her reasons. Who knows? You might very well change your mind.

 

[Rhamiel]

I am sorry you are going through a hard time
I remember you, and I always enjoy reading your posts

I always had an easy time trusting the my own emotions
I know human emotions are weak and trick
it is still rough, know that Jesus and His Church are greater then my weak emotions

 

[Fantine]

I think that most older children are pretty good at reading their parents, and kids are pretty good in recognizing inauthenticity in almost all adults--parents, teachers, coaches, etc.

So yes, saying "the Church teaches" is best, but if they ask your own opinion, lying won't cut it--and neither will "none of your business." Probably the best thing to do is to say, "I'm working on it."

Probably the most important thing you can do with your children is to keep the lines of communication open and maintain a mutually loving, mutually respectful relationship.

Lie unsuccessfully and you lose their respect--but "I'm working on it" isn't a lie. It's an acknowledgment that people of faith are on a spiritual journey, and that journey is a process, and that's OK.

 

[Rhamiel]

I think that most older children are pretty good at reading their parents, and kids are pretty good in recognizing inauthenticity in almost all adults--parents, teachers, coaches, etc.

So yes, saying "the Church teaches" is best, but if they ask your own opinion, lying won't cut it--and neither will "none of your business." Probably the best thing to do is to say, "I'm working on it."

Probably the most important thing you can do with your children is to keep the lines of communication open and maintain a mutually loving, mutually respectful relationship.

Lie unsuccessfully and you lose their respect--but "I'm working on it" isn't a lie. It's an acknowledgment that people of faith are on a spiritual journey, and that journey is a process, and that's OK.

you said this a lot better then I was able to say it

 

[mark46]

I think that most older children are pretty good at reading their parents, and kids are pretty good in recognizing inauthenticity in almost all adults--parents, teachers, coaches, etc.

So yes, saying "the Church teaches" is best, but if they ask your own opinion, lying won't cut it--and neither will "none of your business." Probably the best thing to do is to say, "I'm working on it."

Probably the most important thing you can do with your children is to keep the lines of communication open and maintain a mutually loving, mutually respectful relationship.

Lie unsuccessfully and you lose their respect--but "I'm working on it" isn't a lie. It's an acknowledgment that people of faith are on a spiritual journey, and that journey is a process, and that's OK.

well said

 

[MoreCoffee]

Let your conscience be trained by the Holy Spirit and let the Church help. I think that's the way to go when personal reflection on dogma and doctrine leaves you feeling out of place and out of step. Keeping your struggles to yourself leaves you feeling alone and isolated so share the struggle with your pastor and your spiritual advisor. Pray and search the scriptures. Look with compassion on those around you. Never let dogmatism lead you to cold and callous disregard for others.

What I want to say is follow your conscience because ultimately you will speak with God about what your conscience told you. If you cannot bring yourself to believe and teach what the Church teaches on a moral issue - like same sex attractions and same sex relationships - then stick with conscience only let your conscience have the opportunity to hear and respond to the Church's teaching and see if it is what the Spirit says to your conscience.

God be with you as you struggle and seek to find the Spirit's voice in these matters.

 

[zaida]

really useful discussion, thanks everyone for your input - I like the idea of telling my children what the Church teaches, and also being honest about my struggles, but also telling them that I have love and respect for Church teachings.

Also, I want them to know about the importance of charity to all people.

It gets complex as well as my children are not being raised Catholic - I'm a convert (after the kids were already born) and my husband is not comfortable with them getting official instruction. So, I talk to them a lot about God and Jesus, and hope when they are mature they will join the Church. Anyway this has all been helpful - thank you!

 

[Root of Jesse]

I watched Mass on EWTN this morning-Deacon Harold was the Homilist. The homily is relevant. It's not on YouTube just now, but here's the link. Deacon Harold is black and built like a fire hydrant, and treats these sensitive subjects very well.

https://www.youtube.com/user/EWTN

 

[MoreCoffee]

I watched Mass on EWTN this morning-Deacon Harold was the Homilist. The homily is relevant. It's not on YouTube just now, but here's the link. Deacon Harold is black and built like a fire hydrant, and treats these sensitive subjects very well.

https://www.youtube.com/user/EWTN

Is this the mass that you watched?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTN2kZ-T0gc

 

[Root of Jesse]

Is this the mass that you watched?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTN2kZ-T0gc

Yes, that's the one.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Notice that the embedded youtube videos have changed to links. I wonder why that happened? The new editor has embedded player things