LDS teachings on God

[TheBarrd]

Genesis 9:6
6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exactly. You don't kill the image of the Spirit of God without consequences.

 

[BigDaddy4]

And there you have it - the typical orthodox conclusion - we are not created in the image of Elohim....

There you have it, the typical lds unorthodox denial and false accusations. The confusion you have is of your own doing.

Tell me, if we are supposed to be literally created in the image of God, and if Jesus is the perfect physical representation of God, how come we all don't look like Jesus? Which begs the question, what did Jesus look like?

 

[BigDaddy4]

You're basing all of that on issues where the Bible is silent, such as Jesus' marital status.

That doesn't stop the lds church and its leaders past and present from trying to fill in the blanks and create their own doctrine.

 

[Ran77]

If I'm the least bit wrong about the following (and I always am), someone will no doubt hasten to make the correction.

Absolutely. I will be happy to do the corrections.

be born to receive his physical body;

Wrong. LDS believe that Jesus was God from the beginning. Both Jesus and the Holy Ghost were God before they gained a physical body.

accept the teachings of the LDS church;

Partially wrong. Those who would be like God must obey His commandments. That does not directly translate into accepting teachings. Your statement also focuses on the LDS church, but really what the LDS are talking about is God's church as it has been throughout the earthly existence of man.

repent of all his sins and transgressions;

This would fall under "obey His commandments" above.

be baptized, at the age of 8 or any time thereafter;

This would fall under "obey His commandments" above.

receive what is called the gift of the Holy Ghost (another whole discussion);

That is traditionally done at the time of baptism, but I don't recall ever having heard that connected with a requirement for the Celestial kingdom. It certainly helps a person to become more like Him.

perform all of his duties/callings in the church honorably;

This is a matter of bearing fruits worthy of God and doing them with a heart filled with love. Pretty basic Bible stuff. Since our goal is to become like our Heavenly Father, wouldn't He serve with honor?

qualify for a temple recommend and perform temple ordinances for the living and the dead;

Wrong. The LDS perform ordinances for the dead to give them the opportunity to accept them, but they are not requirements of themselves for entrance to the Celestial kingdom. I'm not certain at this moment about the necessity of the ordinance of the Endowment.

be sealed to his own wife/wives in the temple;

Wrong. LDS leaders have indicated that no blessing will be denied worthy individuals who were unable to marry during their lifetime. No matter how much our critics want to twist this around, what you suggest is not the case.

continue to obey all the commandments as outlined in LDS doctrine;
endure to the end doing all of the above.

This is just repeating of one of the points you made above.

Of course his equally worthy wife/wives will go with him to help him populate their new realm.

Husband and wife will inherit all that the Father has, if they are worthy. However, what that actually entails has not been revealed. Your comment about populating new realms is not doctrine. It is something that our critics like to dwell upon, but I have not run into any LDS that focus on that possibility. All the comments I have heard are about looking forward to being with their wives and their children throughout eternity. But that doesn't really play well in the LDS critic handbook, because that is too normal of a desire to effectively attack.

 

[TheBarrd]

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His commandments.


He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:
1.
We must be baptized.

2.
We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

3.
Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.

4.
We must receive the temple endowment.

5.
We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.



In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
1.
Love God and our neighbors.

2.
Keep the commandments.

3.
Repent of our wrongdoings.

4.
Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.

5.
Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.

6.
Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.

7.
Have family and individual prayers every day.

8.
Teach the gospel to others by word and example.

9.
Study the scriptures.

10.
Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.


Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng

 

[TheBarrd]

Most of the requirements I posted are fairly straight forward.
However, it seems that the hopeful god-to-be must be married, one way or the other...otherwise, he would have no "heavenly mother" to carry and give birth to his "spirit children"??
And there are a couple of other requirements that are peculiar to the LDS faith.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Exactly. You don't kill the image of the Spirit of God without consequences.

Well being that you can't kill a spirit, this doctrine of yours is confusing to say the least. Further the story of Adam does not show our spirits were even created - but his life was "blown" into the body God had created "in our image" apparently from realms outside this creation.

 

[TheBarrd]

Well being that you can't kill a spirit, this doctrine of yours is confusing to say the least. Further the story of Adam does not show our spirits were even created - but his life was "blown" into the body God had created "in our image" apparently from realms outside this creation.

We are not talking about killing a spirit, but killing an image...something totally different.
Adam was created from the dust of the ground...the ground of this planet, earth. He is not Adam, or Michael the archangel...and he is certainly not god.
It doesn't say that "his life was blown into him", nor does it say anything any "realms outside this creation". What it says is that "God breathed into him the breath of life". Now lots of folks (I'm one of them) believe that God breathed His Spirit into Adam, giving Adam a little spark of Himself, thus making him an "Elohim".
And, of course, he would pass this to his children.

Making it wrong to kill an Elohim...

 

[Moodshadow]

Absolutely. I will be happy to do the corrections. And who better than an authority on Mormonism like you, right?

Wrong. LDS believe that Jesus was God from the beginning. Both Jesus and the Holy Ghost were God before they gained a physical body. We were not speaking of members of the LDS godhead; we were speaking of potential gods, not those who already qualify. And when you say "they" - plural - that actually includes the Holy Ghost? Does Mormonism now teach that he had a physical body?

Partially wrong. Those who would be like God must obey His commandments. That does not directly translate into accepting teachings. Your statement also focuses on the LDS church, but really what the LDS are talking about is God's church as it has been throughout the earthly existence of man. If a potential god (as opposed to "those who would be like God") does not accept the tenets of the LDS church, then it follows that he probably would not necessarily obey His commandments (according to Mormonism), does it not? And it follows that in his failure to obey all the commandments, he would not then qualify to become a god? And yes, I'm focusing on the LDS church here because the whole topic here is becoming gods - which is a belief that is very peculiar to Mormonism and to this conversation, and therefore it is necessary to discuss the steps as required by the tenets of Mormonism. As for "God's church as it has been through out the earthly existence of man," only Mormonism teaches that Mormonism fits that description.

This would fall under "obey His commandments" above. Has the fourth article of faith been rescinded?

This would fall under "obey His commandments" above. At the risk of being redundant, has the fourth article of faith been rescinded?

That is traditionally done at the time of baptism, but I don't recall ever having heard that connected with a requirement for the Celestial kingdom. It certainly helps a person to become more like Him. At the risk of being even more redundant, has the fourth article of faith been rescinded? A person who has never repented, been baptized into the LDS church, and received by the proper priesthood authority the gift of the Holy Ghost could never qualify for a temple recommend, correct? And a person who has never been to the temple would never have the necessary information enabling him/her to pass through the veil, correct? And if that individual's work were done by proxy, the effect would be counted as though it had been done by the person directly, correct? So how can it be said that it be said that these ordinances are not "connected with a requirement for the Celestial kingdom," and without them, how would/could that person ever qualify for the celestial kingdom and become a god?

This is a matter of bearing fruits worthy of God and doing them with a heart filled with love. Pretty basic Bible stuff. Since our goal is to become like our Heavenly Father, wouldn't He serve with honor? Will you please cite any Bible references are made to extending or receiving callings to church members to be nursery leader, Primary teacher or chorister or teacher, or YM/YW president or Mia Maid teacher, or stake clerk, or elders' quorum secretary, or ward librarian, or high priest group leader, or family history center worker, or Relief Society visiting teacher leader? Since it's "basic Bible stuff," it shouldn't be too difficult for you.

Wrong. The LDS perform ordinances for the dead to give them the opportunity to accept them, but they are not requirements of themselves for entrance to the Celestial kingdom. I'm not certain at this moment about the necessity of the ordinance of the Endowment. Really? Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles might disagree. He said this about the importance of temples and temple ordinances: “A temple is literally the house of the Lord, reserved for ordinances of eternal significance. Those ordinances include baptisms, marriages, endowments, and sealings. Ordinances of the temple are absolutely crucial. We cannot return to God’s glory without them” (“Prepare for Blessings of the Temple,” Ensign, Mar. 2002, 17–18). And Ezra Taft Benson said this: "When our Heavenly Father placed Adam and Eve on this earth, He did so with the purpose in mind of teaching them how to regain His presence. Our Father promised a Savior to redeem them from their fallen condition. He gave to them the plan of salvation and told them to teach their children faith in Jesus Christ, and repentance. Further, Adam and his posterity were commanded by God to be baptized, to receive the Holy Ghost, and to enter into the order of the Son of God. To enter into the order of the Son of God is the equivalent today of entering into the fulness of the Melchizedek Priesthood, which is only received in the house of the Lord." (Ensign, Aug. 1985, p. 8) Are you saying that you disagree with these two general authorities?

Wrong. LDS leaders have indicated that no blessing will be denied worthy individuals who were unable to marry during their lifetime. No matter how much our critics want to twist this around, what you suggest is not the case. You are correct that LDS leaders have said this. But what you neglected to mention is that these worthy individuals who were unable to marry during this lifetime absolutely cannot enter the highest degree of the celestial kingdom unless and until they have been sealed by proper priesthood authority to an equally worthy companion. That ordinance can be performed by proxy after the individual's mortality has expired, but it must be performed at some time, period. There will be no unmarried gods, period, according to Mormonism.

This is just repeating of one of the points you made above. Perhaps so. "Enduring to the end" is an oft-repeated mantra in Mormonism.

 

[Ran77]

And who better than an authority on Mormonism like you, right?

Correct.

 

[Ran77]

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His commandments.


He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:
1.
We must be baptized.

2.
We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

3.
Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.

4.
We must receive the temple endowment.

5.
We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.



In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
1.
Love God and our neighbors.

2.
Keep the commandments.

3.
Repent of our wrongdoings.

4.
Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.

5.
Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.

6.
Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.

7.
Have family and individual prayers every day.

8.
Teach the gospel to others by word and example.

9.
Study the scriptures.

10.
Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.


Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng

Excellent.

This verifies what I stated and clarified the one point I wasn't sure about. Thanks for posting it.

 

[TheBarrd]

Excellent.

This verifies what I stated and clarified the one point I wasn't sure about. Thanks for posting it.

You're welcome.
I Googled it.

LOL, who needs an expert, when we have Google????

 

[Ran77]

If a potential god (as opposed to "those who would be like God")

It's hard to image that the conclusion our critics eventually arrive at can be very accurate when they start off in the wrong direction. Our critics would have people believe that it is the LDS focus on becoming gods, but that is not true. When we think of exaltation this is what is on our mind:

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng


Obviously, the reason this is changed is to make it sound somehow unacceptable. I mean, who can find fault with wanting to become like God? So change what the LDS say to something much easier to attack. Does that sound like something Jesus would do?


:o

 

[Rescued One]

It's hard to image that the conclusion our critics eventually arrive at can be very accurate when they start off in the wrong direction. Our critics would have people believe that it is the LDS focus on becoming gods, but that is not true. When we think of exaltation this is what is on our mind:

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng


Obviously, the reason this is changed is to make it sound somehow unacceptable. I mean, who can find fault with wanting to become like God? So change what the LDS say to something much easier to attack. Does that sound like something Jesus would do?

No, LDS changed what they say as opposed to what their Doctrine and Covenants says and what the LDS leaders of the 1960s said.

 

[Rescued One]

...When we think of exaltation this is what is on our mind:...

:o

Since mind is singular, I guess you are referring to your mind, not countless others.

 

[Ran77]

Since mind is singular, I guess you are referring to your mind, not countless others.

Your guess is wrong. I have spoken with people. I have read the doctrinal sources on the matter, which I previously posted above. They are the same mind. It just isn't what our critics would like everyone to believe about us and apparently that bothers the critics.


:o

 

[Ran77]

No, LDS changed what they say as opposed to what their Doctrine and Covenants says and what the LDS leaders of the 1960s said.

CFR.

 

[Moodshadow]

It's hard to image that the conclusion our critics eventually arrive at can be very accurate when they start off in the wrong direction. Our critics would have people believe that it is the LDS focus on becoming gods, but that is not true. When we think of exaltation this is what is on our mind:

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng


Obviously, the reason this is changed is to make it sound somehow unacceptable. I mean, who can find fault with wanting to become like God? So change what the LDS say to something much easier to attack. Does that sound like something Jesus would do?:o

D&C 76:95. "And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion. "Equal" is not exactly the same thing as "like."

And you did not answer my question about agreeing/disagreeing with your general authorities. Would you be so kind?

 

[TheBarrd]

It's hard to image that the conclusion our critics eventually arrive at can be very accurate when they start off in the wrong direction. Our critics would have people believe that it is the LDS focus on becoming gods, but that is not true. When we think of exaltation this is what is on our mind:

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng


Obviously, the reason this is changed is to make it sound somehow unacceptable. I mean, who can find fault with wanting to become like God? So change what the LDS say to something much easier to attack. Does that sound like something Jesus would do?


:o

The goal of mainstream Christianity, of course, is to be "conformed to Christ"...which is, in a sense, becoming more like God.
And the eventual result of this is to become "one" with the Father and the Son, just as they are "one" with each other. It is to become a part of the God-family.

The problem is that LDS do not see things quite the same way. To begin with, you have that doctrine that god was once a man who was born on another planet.
Christianity believes that God is an entirely different order of Being, Who existed before there were other planets to be born on. We believe that God created the cosmos "ex nihilio"...while LDS believe that god simple "rearranged" pre existing matter, which, fortunately, also contained intelligence.
But that isn't the worst of it.
You believe that each new "god" has the power to "exalt" ever more new "gods"...and each new "god" goes off and "creates" (rearranges) his own little "kingdom".
This is completely opposite of what Christianity teaches, which is that we will all be a part of the One "God-Family"....not separate "little g" gods, all alone in our little "kingdoms"....a HUGE difference.

So, no....the problem is not that you want to become like God. I can't understand why being a part of the "Big-G God" isn't good enough for you.
Too bad...because, really and truly, it is the only option. There really aren't any "little g" gods.

 

[Ran77]

D&C 76:95. "And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion. "Equal" is not exactly the same thing as "like."

I didn't claim that it was. In fact, it isn't the point I was making at all.

And you did not answer my question about agreeing/disagreeing with your general authorities. Would you be so kind?

I'm not interested. I get that way when rude posts are sent my way.