LDS teachings on God

[Wryetui]

The lack of God's grace in the Mormon salvation teaching is dissapointing

 

[Ironhold]

The lack of God's grace in the Mormon salvation teaching is dissapointing

How so?

 

[Ran77]

Thank you for your "performance."

You are so very welcome. I had a blast doing it.

 

[Ran77]

Yes I did ask that and thanks for your non-answer.

"Because that would indicate that you don't understand that man is used throughout the Bible to represent mankind / humans. It is not a gender reference in this instance."

Oops, looks like I answered it. I guess you missed it.


:o

 

[TheBarrd]

If I'm the least bit wrong about the following (and I always am), someone will no doubt hasten to make the correction.

A potential god, in Mormonism, is even now progressing toward godhood, which means he is somewhere between the pre-existence and the final judgment. During that span of time he will need to do all of the following:

be born to receive his physical body;
accept the teachings of the LDS church;
repent of all his sins and transgressions;
be baptized, at the age of 8 or any time thereafter;
receive what is called the gift of the Holy Ghost (another whole discussion);
perform all of his duties/callings in the church honorably;
qualify for a temple recommend and perform temple ordinances for the living and the dead;
be sealed to his own wife/wives in the temple;
continue to obey all the commandments as outlined in LDS doctrine;
endure to the end doing all of the above.

There are others, such as receiving what is called the second comforter, which is not talked about much even in the church. Another is having one's calling and election made sure, published information about which is vague at best. Online information about these things is available but not definitive.

Eventually this individual passes through the veil to meet the Savior in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, and at some point he is adjudged worthy to become a god in his own right, with all the blessings and rights that go with that. Of course his equally worthy wife/wives will go with him to help him populate their new realm.

Whoa..."second comforter"? This is the first time I'd ever heard there was more that one.

 

[TheBarrd]

So, those who are hopeful of becoming gods in their own right, must totally accept all LDS teaching.
That explains a lot................

 

[Ran77]

Actually, I think I'm having way more fun than he is.

Really, the performance is over. You can stop now, but let me applaud the comedic talent that went into this post. Bravo.



I'm Sparticus.

No, I'm Sparticus.

No, no, I'm Sparticus.




An LDS announces how much fun he had demonstrating how our critics will argue with anything we say and you follow that up with an argument about how you had more fun with it than I did. I can certainly admit when I've been out-performed. Bravo, again.

 

[BigDaddy4]

"Because that would indicate that you don't understand that man is used throughout the Bible to represent mankind / humans. It is not a gender reference in this instance."

Oops, looks like I answered it. I guess you missed it.


:o

A non-answer answer. Huh. Whodathunk?

 

[TheBarrd]

Really, the performance is over. You can stop now, but let me applaud the comedic talent that went into this post. Bravo.



I'm Sparticus.

No, I'm Sparticus.

No, no, I'm Sparticus.




An LDS announces how much fun he had demonstrating how our critics will argue with anything we say and you follow that up with an argument about how you had more fun with it than I did. I can certainly admit when I've been out-performed. Bravo, again.

You misunderstood me, of course.
What I meant was that I was having fun watching your performance.
And what a performance it was...
Are you back for an encore??

 

[Ran77]

You misunderstood me, of course.
What I meant was that I was having fun watching your performance.
And what a performance it was...
Are you back for an encore??

Then my apology. I thought you were pranking me.

 

[BigDaddy4]

And in the next chapter John 5 Jesus says no man has seen the shape[image] of the Father.

Perhaps because the Father has no shape?? What a concept!

Satan would have us believe that Heavenly Father is a disembodied spirit like himself.

Did you personally consult Satan on that? Otherwise, how would you know that's what he would have us believe?

But the Father is not the Holy Spirit. He is our Holy Father, like Jesus will be Isa. 9:6 - exactly when is Jesus supposed to divest Himself of His body?
This is the meaning of the scriptures. In creating this whole world with the Father, Jesus is simply doing what His Father taught Him, and indeed showed Him by pure example.

Here you are mixing 2 concepts. Just because Jesus did what the Father told him to do does not mean that the Father was once a man like Jesus was. You make an illogical leap of unrelated doctrine and try to make a connection where none can be made.

Hebrews 12:9 "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

Elohei haruchot I'chol-basar or
God of the spirits of all flesh (Num. 16:22; 27:16)

Irrelevant.

The same scriptures used by Jesus show we are spirits like the Father. You are just merely quoting John 4 without the full context that Jesus is telling us to worship the Father spiritually and not the letter of the law going through the motions of animal sacrifice etc. The Father told Moses no man could see Him and live - something He would not say if He was merely an invisible Spirit - and Moses saw His hand and back parts.

We have spirits, but we are not like the Father. He is. We are created. Learn the difference.

I'm not going to go round and round on the same arguments. I have said what I can show from the scriptures and I see the same arguments being repeated. Jesus can and does reveal the Father to whom He will. I don't want to get into a contentious argument with you or TheBarrd. I can see heels are dug in. But I will say for the sake of the reader that there are biblical scriptures which when understood as a whole reveal a more complete picture of the nature of God than orthodoxy has understood in the creeds, and that Jesus revealed the nature of the Father in His work He wrought with His blood up on the cross. It is not my intention to offend anybody, so I apologize if anyone feels offended, but people often feel passionately about their view of God. Any time a traditional view is challenged, feelings seem to come to the surface. Christ said many would be offended in Him. I am not. I know He plainly showed us of Father YHWH, Behold the hand, Behold the nail, up on the cross.
Blessings

Tis not I who is on the endless merry-go-round of the progression of gods. Regardles if the lds "don't know, don't care" that is what the doctrine has created.

 

[Ran77]

A non-answer answer. Huh. Whodathunk?

Nicely vague accusation. No follow up.


:o

 

[BigDaddy4]

If I'm the least bit wrong about the following (and I always am), someone will no doubt hasten to make the correction.

A potential god, in Mormonism, is even now progressing toward godhood, which means he is somewhere between the pre-existence and the final judgment. During that span of time he will need to do all of the following:

be born to receive his physical body;
accept the teachings of the LDS church;
repent of all his sins and transgressions;
be baptized, at the age of 8 or any time thereafter;
receive what is called the gift of the Holy Ghost (another whole discussion);
perform all of his duties/callings in the church honorably;
qualify for a temple recommend and perform temple ordinances for the living and the dead;
be sealed to his own wife/wives in the temple;
continue to obey all the commandments as outlined in LDS doctrine;
endure to the end doing all of the above.

There are others, such as receiving what is called the second comforter, which is not talked about much even in the church. Another is having one's calling and election made sure, published information about which is vague at best. Online information about these things is available but not definitive.

Eventually this individual passes through the veil to meet the Savior in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, and at some point he is adjudged worthy to become a god in his own right, with all the blessings and rights that go with that. Of course his equally worthy wife/wives will go with him to help him populate their new realm.

All of which poses a problem for Jesus because he did not:


accept the teachings of the LDS church;

No lds church at the time.

repent of all his sins and transgressions;

Jesus was without sin, therefore did not need to repent of anything.

qualify for a temple recommend and perform temple ordinances for the living and the dead;

No temple recommends at the time. In fact, many times the only temple recommend the leaders would offer would be to kill him. No temple ordinances to perform either. No baptism of the dead in existance as part of the church.

be sealed to his own wife/wives in the temple;

Jesus was not married and/or sealed to any woman.

continue to obey all the commandments as outlined in LDS doctrine;

No LDS doctrine in existance at the time.

endure to the end doing all of the above.

Guess he didn't make it???

 

[TheBarrd]

All of which poses a problem for Jesus because he did not:


accept the teachings of the LDS church;

No lds church at the time.

repent of all his sins and transgressions;

Jesus was without sin, therefore did not need to repent of anything.



No temple recommends at the time. In fact, many times the only temple recommend the leaders would offer would be to kill him. No temple ordinances to perform either. No baptism of the dead in existance as part of the church.

be sealed to his own wife/wives in the temple;

Jesus was not married and/or sealed to any woman.

continue to obey all the commandments as outlined in LDS doctrine;

No LDS doctrine in existance at the time.

endure to the end doing all of the above.

Guess he didn't make it???

Oh, dear!
If Jesus didn't make it...I guess none of these other hopefuls will ever get to be gods, either...bad news, huh?
Sorry, guys....

 

[Ironhold]

You're basing all of that on issues where the Bible is silent, such as Jesus' marital status.

 

[TheBarrd]

You're basing all of that on issues where the Bible is silent, such as Jesus' marital status.

Do you think Jesus ever received "the second comforter"?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

That's all very well, Dr. Bubba, but it isn't Christianity.
Christianity is not indifferent to any more ancient/othergods...it simply does not allow for such.
The Christian ardently believes that there is only ONE God.
That God was not "born" nor was He ever mortal. He existed before there was anything else...before time, itself.
He Created all that exists...nothing at all exists that He did not Create.

Compare to the Mormon "construct"...

We are in agreement, except I can see from their view "it does not matter" is not the same as "don't care".

I fail to see however how they can say the Father is the creator of all to them when am pretty sure they will acknowledge the Father is himself the offspring of another more ancient, which I guess again they could say it doesn't matter or that for our purpose on earth, He created everything in "our" world..

 

[RevelationTestament]

We have spirits, but we are not like the Father. He is. We are created. Learn the difference.

And there you have it - the typical orthodox conclusion - we are not created in the image of Elohim....

 

[TheBarrd]

And there you have it - the typical orthodox conclusion - we are not created in the image of Elohim....

When you say "image", you mean like a photograph.
"Oh, look...he has his mother's eyes..."

When Orthodox Christians say "image" they mean "spiritual image". Unlike dogs, or kitty cats, or ponies, or grizzly bears, we are self aware, we do not necessarily act from instinct...and most importantly, we can love in the way that God loves...unconditionally.

I seriously think that the second definition is the more important of the two. Surely the ability to love is more important than what we look like...

 

[RevelationTestament]

When you say "image", you mean like a photograph.
"Oh, look...he has his mother's eyes..."

When Orthodox Christians say "image" they mean "spiritual image". Unlike dogs, or kitty cats, or ponies, or grizzly bears, we are self aware, we do not necessarily act from instinct...and most importantly, we can love in the way that God loves...unconditionally.

Genesis 9:6
6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.