LDS LDS folk, a question for you

[mmksparbud]

It doesn't, but they were not created out of nothing as you assume. Did God create man out of nothing?:

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:27)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(Old Testament | Genesis 2:7)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

He created the dust from which He formed man.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Psa_90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

(New Testament | Colossians 1:15 - 17)

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

The before also means in front of for instance:
(New Testament | Matthew 11:10)

10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

If "all things" were "created by him and for him", how then is it possible for anything to have existed "before" Christ?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

May I ask the member of the church of LDS some questions?

 

[He is the way]

If "all things" were "created by him and for him", how then is it possible for anything to have existed "before" Christ?

Is God a thing or is He nothing? I say God does exist and has always existed in one form or another and He is something. Therefore the universe was not void of matter. God organized the matter into worlds, stars, etc. :
(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[mmksparbud]

Is God a thing or is He nothing? I say God does exist and has always existed in one form or another and He is something. Therefore the universe was not void of matter. God organized the matter into worlds, stars, etc. :
(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

What matter did He organize?

 

[He is the way]

What matter did He organize?

I believe God organized all of the matter.

 

[mmksparbud]

I believe God organized all of the matter.

I asked-- what matter? All the matter doe not answer the question.

 

[He is the way]

I asked-- what matter? All the matter doe not answer the question.

When you say "what matter" I thought you were asking about all of the matter in the universe. God organized all of the matter in the universe. Is there any other matter? I don't understand your concept here.

 

[mmksparbud]

When you say "what matter" I thought you were asking about all of the matter in the universe. God organized all of the matter in the universe. Is there any other matter? I don't understand your concept here.

Where did this matter come from---what is it you are referring to as matter?

"Before the 20th century, the term matter included ordinary matter composed of atoms and excluded other energy phenomena such as light or sound. This concept of matter may be generalized from atoms to include any objects having mass even when at rest, but this is ill-defined because an object's mass can arise from its (possibly massless) constituents' motion and interaction energies."
: material substance that occupies space, has mass, and is composed predominantly of atoms consisting of protons, neutrons, and electrons, that constitutes the observable universe, and that is interconvertible with energy

Where did these protins, neutrons, and eklectrons come from? Just what did JS say about this? I don't remember.

​

 

[DamianWarS]

The Bible states that Eve is in the image of God, but that would not be the image of the Father. So I believe it must have been God the Mother. God being a Father and His wife being a Mother both being equal.:

can one be called a father without the need of a wife? can one be called a son without the need for a biological contribution?

 

[He is the way]

Where did this matter come from---what is it you are referring to as matter?

"Before the 20th century, the term matter included ordinary matter composed of atoms and excluded other energy phenomena such as light or sound. This concept of matter may be generalized from atoms to include any objects having mass even when at rest, but this is ill-defined because an object's mass can arise from its (possibly massless) constituents' motion and interaction energies."
: material substance that occupies space, has mass, and is composed predominantly of atoms consisting of protons, neutrons, and electrons, that constitutes the observable universe, and that is interconvertible with energy

Where did these protins, neutrons, and eklectrons come from? Just what did JS say about this? I don't remember.

​

I think you are referring to this scripture from the D&C:
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 131:7 - 8)

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

Scientists have discovered a lot more about matter such as the neutrino. REU Web Site Presentation of IceCube

 

[He is the way]

can one be called a father without the need of a wife? can one be called a son without the need for a biological contribution?

No, none that I am aware of. Jesus had a biological mother.

 

[Peter1000]

Unfortunately, the Bible does not support your position.

Fortunately, the bible does support our position that I can become like God and through his power and authority, He can give me His divine nature. That is one of His purposes for being God. Why do you think there are billions and billions of galaxies that you cannot even get to in billions of years, traveling the speed of light. It is because there are many like our God, creating earths, like our God. Remember our God has created so many planets, that they can not be numbered by man. Will we ever be able to get to the beginning? Not known, it has not been given. A song lyric is not canon scripture.

When the OT says that there are no Gods before me, or no Savior beside me, or no God formed before me or after me, that is all related to this earth and this heaven that our God created in the beginning. Not about any other earth or star or planet, but only ours. No other gods are going to have anything to do with our earth and our heavens. So because our God is in charge of our heavens and our earth, He can say He is it, and it is the truth.

If our earth was created approximately 7,000 years ago, then we know the creation of the earth was not the beginning of the creations in the universe. We have no idea how large the universe is except to say that going 660 million miles an hour, it would take you 100,000 light years to cross our rather smallish galaxy (the Milky Way). There are billions of billions of Milky Way galaxies that we know of. Light from these distant galaxies take millions of years to travel from their planet to our earth. Therefore their creation was millions of not billions of years ago. This is only 1 reason we believe that there are many Elohim that are creating and there will be many, many more, as the universe continues to expand making more room for more of our God's children that do his will and become just like Him.

 

[Calminian]

Good question, you should pray about it.

LOL! I suggest you do that same.

 

[Calminian]

In case anyone is confused.

Is. 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the LORD,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.

11 I, even I, am the LORD,
And besides Me there is no savior.

 

[Peter1000]

I think you are referring to this scripture from the D&C:
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 131:7 - 8)

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

Scientists have discovered a lot more about matter such as the neutrino. REU Web Site Presentation of IceCube

Interesting article. Did JS also say that the building blocks of matter have always existed and could not be destroyed? Very interesting information.

 

[Peter1000]

In case anyone is confused.

Is. 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the LORD,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.

11 I, even I, am the LORD,
And besides Me there is no savior.

So this is obviously Jesus talking to us, since he is the only Savior I know. Is that what you think?

 

[Calminian]

So this is obviously Jesus talking to us, since he is the only Savior I know. Is that what you think?

Sure. Jesus is Yahweh and Jesus is not formed.

 

[Calminian]

Interesting article. Did JS also say that the building blocks of matter have always existed and could not be destroyed? Very interesting information.

Actually the Bible is the only ancient document that records the creation of material in the beginning. Genesis 1:1-1:2 is very unique. Normally in mythologies of origins, the matter is mentioned first, then the creation from that matter. No origin of the matter is ever recorded. But Genesis clearly indicates the creation of that matter. In the beginning God created the formless empty earth (Gen. 1:1-2). Matter! Then after that, is the formation of that matter and finally the filling of what was formed. Very unique.

 

[He is the way]

Interesting article. Did JS also say that the building blocks of matter have always existed and could not be destroyed? Very interesting information.

You may want to look here Joseph Smith as Scientist: A Contribution to Mormon Philosophy by Widtsoe