LDS and Miracles

[Rescued One]

“A miracle is an extraordinary event caused by the power of God. Miracles are an important element in the work of Jesus Christ. They include healings, restoring the dead to life, and resurrection. Miracles are a part of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Faith is necessary in order for miracles to be manifested” (Guide to the Scriptures, 165).
Miracles

LDS have an odd stance on healings in that they believe miracle healings can take place outside the LDS church; they claim theirs is the only true church and the only true authority. Only worthy LDS priesthood holders can bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost to worthy church members. Worthy priesthood holders can bestow blessings by laying hands on the heads of the sick and afflicted. They believe in miracle healings. They usually anoint the sick with oil and then pray over them as two or three elders gather round.

Several non-LDS churches also anoint the sick and expect miracle healings.

This is from the Ensign magazine:

I will now describe two types of genuine miracles. These two fit all of the elements of the definition: they are brought about by divine power, mortals do not understand them, and mortals cannot duplicate them of themselves.

First, miracles worked by the power of the priesthood are always present in the true Church of Jesus Christ. 5 The Book of Mormon teaches that “God has provided a means that man, through faith, might work mighty miracles” (Mosiah 8:18). The “means” provided is priesthood power (see James 5:14–15; D&C 42:43–48), and that power works miracles through faith (see Ether 12:12; Moro. 7:37). The scriptures contain many accounts of such miracles. Elijah’s raising the widow’s son and Peter’s healing of the lame man are two familiar examples from the Bible (see 1 Kgs. 17:8–24; Acts 3), and there are many others. I will describe some modern examples later.

A second type of genuine miracle is the miracle worked through the power of faith, without specifically invoking the power of the priesthood. Many of these miracles occur in our Church, such as by the prayers of faithful women, and many occur outside it. As Nephi taught, God “manifesteth himself unto all those who believe in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost; yea, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, working mighty miracles, signs, and wonders, among the children of men according to their faith” (2 Ne. 26:13; see also 1 Ne. 7:12; James 5:15).(bold mine)
LDS.org - Ensign Article - Miracles

The gift of the Holy Ghost is the privilege—given to people who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ, been baptized, and been confirmed as members of the Church—to receive continual guidance and inspiration from the Holy Ghost...

Today people who are not members of the Church learn by the power of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true (see Moroni 10:4–5). But that initial testimony leaves them if they do not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. They do not receive the continuing assurance that can come to those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost
•
What must we do to receive the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost?


After people are baptized, they are confirmed members of the Church and given the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. The Lord said, “Whoso having faith you shall confirm in my church, by the laying on of the hands, and I will bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost upon them” (D&C 33:15).

Every worthy elder of the Church, when authorized, may give the gift of the Holy Ghost to another person. However, there is no guarantee that the person will receive inspiration and guidance from the Holy Ghost just because the elders have laid their hands on his or her head. Each person must “receive the Holy Ghost.” This means that the Holy Ghost will come to us only when we are faithful and desire help from this heavenly messenger.

To be worthy to have the help of the Holy Ghost, we must seek earnestly to obey the commandments of God. We must keep our thoughts and actions pure.
Gospel Principles Chapter 21: The Gift of the Holy Ghost

 

[RevelationTestament]

You must have known I was going to start a thread on this --

I am born again into the only church with the true priesthood.
Latest miracle: one of the members of my ward has been getting steadily sicker for years. She needed a heart and double lung transplant. She was on the maximum oxygen possible - 10 L. The doctors told her to get her things in order - she was going to die. Her home teacher had her call the bishop who came and told her that she was either going to die or the Lord was going to heal her. He asked if she had faith to which she said yes. The day after her blessing she was even worse and went to the doctor who told her she was going to die unless she went to the hospital. She went to the hospital for the umpteenth time to receive breathing treatments for the umpteenth time. The receptionist even came and sat with her. Then she started getting better, and they lowered her oxygen. Over several days she got so much better they took her off the oxygen and sent her home. She has been on oxygen for several years. My wife has made multiple dinners for her family over the years. She came practically skipping up to our house free of the oxygen tether with a smile as big as her face just this week. In the last several years almost every time I have seen her, she has been in her wheel chair. Wow.

 

[Rescued One]

I'm surprised that LDS priesthood power isn't necessary for healings.

The priesthood is the power and authority of God. By his priesthood power the heavens and the earth were created. By this power the universe is kept in perfect order. Through this power he accomplishes his work and glory, which is “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).

Our Heavenly Father shares his priesthood power with worthy male members of the Church. The priesthood enables them to act in God’s name for the salvation of the human family. Through it they can be authorized to preach the gospel, administer the ordinances of salvation, and govern God’s kingdom on earth.

Why Do We Need the Priesthood on the Earth?
We must have priesthood authority to act in the name of God when performing the sacred ordinances of the gospel, such as baptism, confirmation, administration of the sacrament, and temple marriage. If a man does not have the priesthood, even though he may be sincere, the Lord will not recognize ordinances he performs (see Matthew 7:21–23). These important ordinances must be performed on the earth by men holding the priesthood.
“Chapter 13: The Priesthood,” Gospel Principles, 81
https://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index....toid=32c41b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

 

[Rescued One]

You must have known I was going to start a thread on this --

I am born again into the only church with the true priesthood.

Thank you for your opinion.

Latest miracle: one of the members of my ward has been getting steadily sicker for years. She needed a heart and double lung transplant. She was on the maximum oxygen possible - 10 L. The doctors told her to get her things in order - she was going to die. Her home teacher had her call the bishop who came and told her that she was either going to die or the Lord was going to heal her. He asked if she had faith to which she said yes. The day after her blessing she was even worse and went to the doctor who told her she was going to die unless she went to the hospital. She went to the hospital for the umpteenth time to receive breathing treatments for the umpteenth time. The receptionist even came and sat with her. Then she started getting better, and they lowered her oxygen. Over several days she got so much better they took her off the oxygen and sent her home. She has been on oxygen for several years. My wife has made multiple dinners for her family over the years. She came practically skipping up to our house free of the oxygen tether with a smile as big as her face just this week. In the last several years almost every time I have seen her, she has been in her wheel chair. Wow.

We know from the scriptures that persons without authority will use the name of Jesus Christ to work what seem to be miracles. The Savior taught that as part of the Final Judgment many would say, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” (Matt. 7:22). You will remember that these pretenders were rejected by the Lord (see Matt. 7:23).

Not every manifestation or miracle comes from God or from mortal deception. The adversary has great powers to deceive, and he will use these to give his corrupted copy of the genuine miracles worked by the power of God. I will say no more of this, since I believe it is not desirable to say much about the powers of the evil one. It is sufficient for us to know that his power exists and that we have been warned against it (see Rev. 13:11–14; D&C 28:11; D&C 50:1–3). 4
Elder Dallin H. Oaks, Miracles, Ensign, June 2001
Miracles - Ensign June 2001 - ensign

 

[williamgramsmith]

I'm surprised that LDS priesthood power isn't necessary for healings.

Which is the problem why you just "quoting things" doesn't equal our actual Theology, unless you are quoting every single word ever spoken on the subject, which you simply ARE NOT, and is exactly why you bearing false witness in almost everything you claim of Mormonism.

We are living this religion daily, you are not. We know ALL it teaches, you do not.

But, I know I'm speaking on deaf ears. Because it simply doesn't matter to you what we actually believe, you will quote what you want to quote, and it doesn't matter how often or how much we correct you, clarify for you or otherwise, YOU KNOW BETTER. Degrading the Church is the ONLY thing that's important to you. You will claim that's not true, but your actions tell otherwise. We show you over and over and over and tell you over and over and over again that you are wrong. Even Skylark shows you over and over again, but YOU DON'T CARE.

Enjoy it. It will destroy you in the end, because it's one thing to have personal beliefs that may be true or false, but another to actively destroy others. God doesn't like people trying to destroy his children. Mark 9, Luke 9, Matthew 18.

 

[RevelationTestament]

I'm surprised that LDS priesthood power isn't necessary for healings.

The priesthood is the power and authority of God. By his priesthood power the heavens and the earth were created. By this power the universe is kept in perfect order. Through this power he accomplishes his work and glory, which is “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).

Our Heavenly Father shares his priesthood power with worthy male members of the Church. The priesthood enables them to act in God’s name for the salvation of the human family. Through it they can be authorized to preach the gospel, administer the ordinances of salvation, and govern God’s kingdom on earth.

Why Do We Need the Priesthood on the Earth?
We must have priesthood authority to act in the name of God when performing the sacred ordinances of the gospel, such as baptism, confirmation, administration of the sacrament, and temple marriage. If a man does not have the priesthood, even though he may be sincere, the Lord will not recognize ordinances he performs (see Matthew 7:21–23). These important ordinances must be performed on the earth by men holding the priesthood.
“Chapter 13: The Priesthood,” Gospel Principles, 81
https://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index....toid=32c41b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

At Haun's Mill, a heroic pioneer woman, Amanda Smith, learned by faith how to do something beyond her abilities and the scientific knowledge of her time. On that terrible day in 1838, as the firing ceased and the mobsters left, she returned to the mill and saw her eldest son, Willard, carrying his seven-year-old brother, Alma. She cried, "Oh! my Alma is dead!"

"No, mother," he said, "I think Alma is not dead. But father and brother Sardius are [dead]!" But there was no time for tears now. Alma's entire hip bone was shot away. Amanda later recalled:

"Flesh, hip bone, joint and all had been ploughed out. . . . We laid little Alma on a bed in our tent and I examined the wound. It was a ghastly sight. I knew not what to do. . . . Yet was I there, all that long, dreadful night, with my dead and my wounded, and none but God as our physician and help. 'Oh my Heavenly Father,' I cried, 'what shall I do? Thou seest my poor wounded boy and knowest my inexperience. Oh, Heavenly Father, direct me what to do!' And then I was directed as by a voice speaking to me.

". . . Our fire was still smouldering. . . . I was directed to take . . . ashes and make a lye and put a cloth saturated with it right into the wound. . . . Again and again I saturated the cloth and put it into the hole . . . , and each time mashed flesh and splinters of bone came away with the cloth; and the wound became as white as chicken's flesh.

"Having done as directed I again prayed to the Lord and was again instructed as distinctly as though a physician had been standing by speaking to me. Near by was a slippery-elm tree. From this I was told to make a . . . poultice and fill the wound with it. . . . The poultice was made, and the wound, which took fully a quarter of a yard of linen to cover, . . . was properly dressed. . . .

"I removed the wounded boy to a house . . . and dressed his hip; the Lord directing me as before. I was reminded that in my husband's trunk there was a bottle of balsam. This I poured into the wound, greatly soothing Alma's pain.

"'Alma my child,' I said, 'you believe that the Lord made your hip?'

"'Yes, mother.'

"'Well, the Lord can make something there in the place of your hip, don't you believe he can, Alma?'

"'Do you think that the Lord can, mother?' inquired the child, in his simplicity.

"'Yes, my son,' I replied, 'he has showed it all to me in a vision.'

"Then I laid him comfortably on his face, and said: 'Now you lay like that, and don't move, and the Lord will make you another hip.'

"So Alma laid on his face for five weeks, until he was entirely recovered--a flexible gristle having grown in place of the missing joint and socket, which remains to this day a marvel to physicians. . . .

"It is now nearly forty years ago, but Alma has never been the least crippled during his life, and he has traveled quite a long period of the time as a missionary of the gospel and [is] a living miracle of the power of God."12

 

[skylark1]

I'm surprised that LDS priesthood power isn't necessary for healings.

Which is the problem why you just "quoting things" doesn't equal our actual Theology, unless you are quoting every single word ever spoken on the subject, which you simply ARE NOT, and is exactly why you bearing false witness in almost everything you claim of Mormonism.

We are living this religion daily, you are not. We know ALL it teaches, you do not.

But, I know I'm speaking on deaf ears. Because it simply doesn't matter to you what we actually believe, you will quote what you want to quote, and it doesn't matter how often or how much we correct you, clarify for you or otherwise, YOU KNOW BETTER. Degrading the Church is the ONLY thing that's important to you. You will claim that's not true, but your actions tell otherwise. We show you over and over and over and tell you over and over and over again that you are wrong. Even Skylark shows you over and over again, but YOU DON'T CARE.

Enjoy it. It will destroy you in the end, because it's one thing to have personal beliefs that may be true or false, but another to actively destroy others. God doesn't like people trying to destroy his children. Mark 9, Luke 9, Matthew 18.

Actually Willamgramsmith, I recently asked a friend who is LDS about this same thing, and I was also surprised that LDS did not teach that the priesthood was necessary for healings. I was also surprised that LDS taught that miracles could be worked by the power of faith outside of the LDS Church. So I guess that I am not a good person to hold up as an example. It can be confusing to me concerning what LDS believe about the effects of the apostasy and what is limited to the priesthood. And that isn't because I want to think the worst of anyone, or think anyone is hypocritical.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Actually Willamgramsmith, I recently asked a friend who is LDS about this same thing, and I was also surprised that LDS did not teach that the priesthood was necessary for healings. I was also surprised that LDS taught that miracles could be worked by the power of faith outside of the LDS Church. So I guess that I am not a good person to hold up as an example. It can be confusing to me concerning what LDS believe about the effects of the apostasy and what is limited to the priesthood. And that isn't because I want to think the worst of anyone, or think anyone is hypocritical.

The priesthood gives us the authority and the responsibility to act in His name - it doesn't mean He does not intercede for other believers. The Lord acts according to the heart and according to His will -

 

[Rescued One]

The priesthood gives us the authority and the responsibility to act in His name - it doesn't mean He does not intercede for other believers. The Lord acts according to the heart and according to His will -

If others are believers why do they need to become Mormons? If they have faith in Christ, why is the Gift of the Holy Ghost reserved for LDS?


1If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2Fulfill you my joy, that you be like minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Philippians 2

 

[RevelationTestament]

Because He is calling them to Him. He calls them to come out of the world. His sheep know His voice, and will follow eventually.

 

[williamgramsmith]

Actually Willamgramsmith, I recently asked a friend who is LDS about this same thing, and I was also surprised that LDS did not teach that the priesthood was necessary for healings. I was also surprised that LDS taught that miracles could be worked by the power of faith outside of the LDS Church. So I guess that I am not a good person to hold up as an example. It can be confusing to me concerning what LDS believe about the effects of the apostasy and what is limited to the priesthood. And that isn't because I want to think the worst of anyone, or think anyone is hypocritical.

No doubt especially those outside of the Faith, it's not unreasonable that they would know everything about another religion, and might be "surprised" by something.

LDS have no problem with honest and sincere error.
However, the difference is that you will accept and come to understand what we believe as being what we believe. Others however will almost always not accept what we believe but claim we believe otherwise and no matter how many times or ways or individuals that try to explain it, their "opinions" will never change.

I'm thankful there are, while not perfect as any are, those rare gems as you who truly follow Christ's Spirit and will. You are a breath of fresh air in a sea of darkness. I am humbled and with much gratitude, for you make life here better.

Take care...

 

[williamgramsmith]

If others are believers why do they need to become Mormons? If they have faith in Christ, why is the Gift of the Holy Ghost reserved for LDS?

Being a "believer" doesn't mean you are "with the Church" as the Apostles and Christ knew of those believers being spoken of in Mark 9, Luke 9, & Matthew 18.

It also doesn't mean they have God's Authority as they also knew in those same chapters, and why the "Gift" of the Holy Ghost can only be given by those who have the authority to give it.

The New Testament account of how the Saints in Samaria received the gift of the Holy Ghost makes clear that bestowal of this gift requires a higher authority than is needed for performing baptisms (see Acts 8:14-17). This not only demonstrates the need for "authority" for certain things (that it exists, and is NOT simply "spiritual" only as some believe), but also that there are levels of authority.

1If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2Fulfill you my joy, that you be like minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Philippians 2

I see some such as Skylark following this, but sadly not most others.
I am great-full for those as Skylark, true followers of Christ in the spirit, not simply in the word, who are honest before their fellow men, bearing honest witness of others if they have to speak of others.

 

[RevelationTestament]

In his great talk on miracles, Elder Matthew Cowley tells of several miraculous healings, including this one that occurred while he was serving as a mission president among the Maori people of New Zealand.

One Sunday a father brought a nine-month-old baby forward to Brother Cowley, requesting that he give him a name and a blessing. Here I quote Brother Cowley:

“I said, ‘All right, what’s the name?’ So he told me the name, and I was just going to start when he said, ‘By the way, give him his vision when you give him a name. He was born blind.’ It shocked me, but then I said to myself, why not? Christ said to his disciples when he left them, ‘Greater things than I have done shall you do.’ (See John 14:12.) I had faith in that father’s faith. After I gave that child its name, I finally got around to giving it its vision. That boy is about twelve years old now. The last time I was back there I was afraid to inquire about him. I was sure he had gone blind again. That’s the way my faith works sometimes. So I asked the branch president about him. And he said, ‘Brother Cowley, the worst thing you ever did was to bless that child to receive his vision. He’s the meanest kid in the neighborhood; always getting into mischief.’ Boy, I was thrilled about that kid getting into mischief!”

 

[Rescued One]

Faith in Christ produces miracles but can't bring salvation because the priesthood is required for that according to Mormonism. That is ironic.

 

[RevelationTestament]

That is wrong, and I think you know that.

 

[Rescued One]

That is wrong, and I think you know that.

CFR.

 

[Rescued One]

Faith in Christ produces miracles but can't bring salvation because the priesthood is required for that according to Mormonism. That is ironic.

Six Saving Ordinances:
. baptism
. confirmation and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost
. receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men)
. washing and anointing (initiatory)
. endowment
. marriage sealing
These saving ordinances are performed for the living as well as for the dead. The first three LDS ordinances are not performed in a temple for the living but the last three are, while all six saving ordinances are performed in a temple for the dead. When we perform one of these LDS ordinances we are also entering into a covenant with God.

LDS Ordinances - What LDS Ordinances are Performed in Temples?

 

[drstevej]

Six Saving Ordinances:
. baptism
. confirmation and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost
. receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men)
. washing and anointing (initiatory)
. endowment
. marriage sealing
These saving ordinances are performed for the living as well as for the dead. The first three LDS ordinances are not performed in a temple for the living but the last three are, while all six saving ordinances are performed in a temple for the dead. When we perform one of these LDS ordinances we are also entering into a covenant with God.

LDS Ordinances - What LDS Ordinances are Performed in Temples?

Smithism never ceases to amaze me at it's additions to NT Christianity. Reminds me fraternity initiation.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Those aren't really "saving" ordinances, with the exception of baptism. All one needs to be saved is to accept Christ and be baptized. The other ordinances are necessary to advance beyond simple salvation.

 

[drstevej]

Those aren't really "saving" ordinances, with the exception of baptism. All one needs to be saved is to accept Christ and be baptized.

proxy baptism ???