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[Timothew]

You missed it:
olethros: from ollumi, to destroy.

But you show that words have no meaning for you. They only mean what you want them to mean.

 

[WinBySurrender]

I say destruction means destruction and death means death.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing, and I can't figure out why there would be an argument about this. Seems perfectly clear to me. Strong's defines apoleia as "utter destruction," suntrimma as "calamity, ruin, destruction," olethros as "ruin, destruction, death (primarily used of the destruction of the lust of the flesh)," and kathairesis as "destruction, demolition." These are the four words Paul uses for "destruction" in his epistles. They are not degrees of destruction so much as different and in some cases more emphatic words for saying "destroy" or "destruction.' No issue here that I see.

God bless.

 

[Timothew]

Since words have NO meaning for you

This statement from you about me is absolute nonsense:
Oz

It isn't nonsense, if destruction means Nondestruction, then anything can mean the opposite of itself. Then nothing means anything.

 

[OzSpen]

You missed it:
olethros: from ollumi, to destroy.

But you show that words have no meaning for you. They only mean what you want them to mean.

This is a false statement. I read and teach koine Greek. I have a fairly good handle on Greek exegesis. Your accusations are false.

Bye, Oz

 

[Timothew]

This is a false statement. I read and teach koine Greek. I have a fairly good handle on Greek exegesis. Your accusations are false.

Bye, Oz

I don't doubt that you believe olethros means destroy.

You just seem to not understand what destroy means.

 

[ashout]

perhaps some of you are assuming things that arn't true. maybe yall should open your heart to God, admit that you might be wrong, and ask him to lead you to the truth of the matter. that way, at least you know that you ASKED God what the truth is, and you didn't just assume what it is yourself.

 

[Timothew]

perhaps some of you are assuming things that arn't true. maybe yall should open your heart to God, admit that you might be wrong, and ask him to lead you to the truth of the matter. that way, at least you know that you ASKED God what the truth is, and you didn't just assume what it is yourself.

Thanks, that's good advice.
I should add, that people should also ask for the courage to believe it when God does reveal the truth.

 

[OzSpen]

I don't doubt that you believe olethros means destroy.

You just seem to not understand what destroy means.

One of the great Greek exegetes of all time, Dr. A. T. Robertson, in his Word Pictures in the New Testament: The Epistles of Paul, vol. 4, p. 44, gives his exegesis on the meaning of destruction, olethros (in 2 Thess. 1:9 we have the accusative case, olethron):

1:9 {Who} (hoitines). Qualitative use, such as. Vanishing in papyri though surviving in Paul (#1Co 3:17; Ro 1:25; Ga 4:26; Php 4:3). {Shall suffer punishment} (diken tisousin). Future active of old verb tinw, to pay penalty (diken, right, justice), here only in N.T., but apotinw once also to repay #Phm 1:19. In the papyri dike is used for a case or process in law. this is the regular phrase in classic writers for paying the penalty. {Eternal destruction} (oleqron aiwnion). Accusative case in apposition with diken (penalty). this phrase does not appear elsewhere in the N.T., but is in IV Macc. 10:15 ton aiwnion tou turannou olethron the eternal destruction of the tyrant (Antiochus Epiphanes). Destruction (cf. #1Th 5:3) does not mean here annihilation, but, as Paul proceeds to show, separation {from the face of the Lord} (apo proswpou tou kuriou) and from the {glory of his might} (kai apo tes doxes tes iscuos autou), an eternity of woe such as befell Antiochus Epiphanes. aiwnios in itself only means age-long and papyri and inscriptions give it in the weakened sense of a Caesar's life (Milligan), but Paul means by age-long {the coming age} in contrast with { this age}, as {eternal} as the New Testament knows how to make it. See on ¯Mt 25:46 for use of aiwnios both with zwen, life, and kolasin, punishment.

So, Robertson’s understanding of “eternal destruction” is that it does not mean annihilation, but separation from the face of the Lord and the glory of his might. This will last for eternity, the woe that befell Antiochus Ephiphanes. For how long is this eternity – the coming age after this age.

Sincerely, Oz

 

[OzSpen]

perhaps some of you are assuming things that arn't true. maybe yall should open your heart to God, admit that you might be wrong, and ask him to lead you to the truth of the matter. that way, at least you know that you ASKED God what the truth is, and you didn't just assume what it is yourself.

I am most definitely open to what you have stated, but opening my heart to God, admitting I could be wrong, and asking Him to lead me to the truth, does not exclude me from careful exegesis of the Greek text that God has given to us thorough his theopneustos (2 Tim. 3:16 - breathed out by God).

In Christ, Oz

 

[Timothew]

I am most definitely open to what you have stated, but opening my heart to God, admitting I could be wrong, and asking Him to lead me to the truth, does not exclude me from careful exegesis of the Greek text that God has given to us thorough his theopneustos (2 Tim. 3:16 - breathed out by God).

In Christ, Oz

I agree, we should carefully and humbly examine the greek text to discover God's truth.

 

[Emmy]

Dear ashout. Jesus told us to love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. Also: to love our neighbour as ourselves. Then Jesus makes this statement: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Straightforward and easy to remember. We are on Earth to learn to LOVE: God with all our beings, ( He made us in His image, He is Love, He loves us, and He is our Heavenly Father) and learn to love our neighbour as ourselves. ( neighbour being all we know and all we meet, friends or not friends)
What does that mean? Everything we do, or say, has to be don e from love, compassion, and care. Instead of being selfish and unloving, we have to become loving and caring to all around us. Love is a Christian`s great weapon, love will make us conquerers and followers of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Love is not only a feel-good factor, to love is also a " doing-word," and Love changes us into the men and women which God wants. The sort of children/sons and daughters, which God wants to live with for eternity.
Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love, also. Jesus told us to: "Ask and ye will receive," then we thank God and share all Love and Joy ( ours included) with all around us. God will see our sincere efforts, and God will approve and bless us. AND: God will know that we love Him: because we are following His Commandments to love.
Satan and hell will have no meaning for us, in fact, Satan and his followers will flee from us, all loving deeds and words are Anathema to the evil one and his hordes.
We might stumble and forget sometimes, but then we ask God to forgive us, and God will forgive us, as we will forgive others. We will have to " Repent," to give up our selfishness and be "reborn" as the loving children, which God wants to have. It is not easy for us, but it can be done, and we have much time to learn. Love is very catching, and before long, there will be others to join us. Love will lead us back to where we came from, ashout. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.