Latest climate studies say AMOC (huge northwards heat current) might shut down

[eclipsenow]

If climate change is the changing thermostat of the planet, AMOC is the heat-pump ocean current that spreads that heat around. If that heat stops moving northwards from the equator some very bad things could be locked into place. Like the last few year's La Nina. I personally prefer Australia being super-wet than super-dry. I couldn't BREATHE properly when the mega-fires of 2019/2020 burned across the east coast for 6 months. Sydney was brown for MONTHS. We prayed and prayed for rain. Who would have thought - in such awful drought conditions - one could eventually get sick of rain? But after fires come the floods - worse than ever before. Weirder and more intense than before. Rain and ongoing humidity so that EVERYTHING is covered in mould. A friend's dartboard on his veranda is just covered in huge mould patches. Kids unable to play soccer a WHOLE SEASON - with maybe 1 match only allowed - because the grounds are too sodden and running on them would destroy the lawns. Homes leaking. Home's moving and cracking as the soil moves. Landslides. Lawns overgrown because we can't find a day to mow. People trapped at home for 2 years during a pandemic now unable to go enjoy walks because it is almost always raining. Entire towns like Lismore being flooded. Twice. The town may have to move.

And now it could become PERMANENT?

The first thing the model simulations revealed was that without the Atlantic overturning, a massive pile-up of heat builds up just south of the Equator.​

This excess of tropical Atlantic heat pushes more warm moist air into the upper troposphere (around 10 kilometres into the atmosphere), causing dry air to descend over the east Pacific.

The descending air then strengthens trade winds, which pushes warm water towards the Indonesian seas. And this helps put the tropical Pacific into a La Niña-like state.

Australians may think of La Niña summers as cool and wet. But under the long-term warming trend of climate change, their worst impacts will be flooding rain, especially over the east.

We also show an Atlantic overturning shutdown would be felt as far south as Antarctica. Rising warm air over the West Pacific would trigger wind changes that propagate south to Antarctica. This would deepen the atmospheric low-pressure system over the Amundsen Sea, which sits off west Antarctica.

This low pressure system is known to influence ice sheet and ice shelf melt, as well as ocean circulation and sea-ice extent as far west as the Ross Sea.
​

The recent wet weather could become the norm in Australia — if this huge ocean current collapses

 

[DaisyDay]

It's pretty depressing.

 

[d taylor]

-​

One thing for sure with me, i do not lose any sleep over anything science says.

 

[eclipsenow]

-​

One thing for sure with me, i do not lose any sleep over anything science says.

Err, no. That's not what Jesus meant when he said "Do not worry about tomorrow." I'm guessing you're reading that as "Do not care about anyone else - especially those people in other countries that might be hurt by climate change more than us rich folk." That's not the gospel. That's breaching what James says. "God bless you" as you step over the poor person on the street, (or in this instance leave them to drown as their nation floods.)

Summary: There's a difference between worrying - as if we didn't trust that God was ultimately in control of all eternity - and being indifferent to the plight of our neighbours we are meant to love this side of eternity.

 

[d taylor]

Err, no. That's not what Jesus meant when he said "Do not worry about tomorrow." I'm guessing you're reading that as "Do not care about anyone else - especially those people in other countries that might be hurt by climate change more than us rich folk." That's not the gospel. That's breaching what James says. "God bless you" as you step over the poor person on the street, (or in this instance leave them to drown as their nation floods.)

Summary: There's a difference between worrying - as if we didn't trust that God was ultimately in control of all eternity - and being indifferent to the plight of our neighbours we are meant to love this side of eternity.

That verse actually never came to mind when writing my post. But in the past this verse really says it all.

“While the earth remains, Seed time and harvest,
Cold and heat, Winter and summer, And day and night Shall not cease.”

 

[eclipsenow]

That verse actually never came to mind when writing my post. But in the past this verse really says it all.

“While the earth remains, Seed time and harvest,
Cold and heat, Winter and summer, And day and night Shall not cease.”

Except the point of the flood story was theological, not scientific.

Also, except for the most extreme scenarios, even in a climate chaos world where maybe a billion people have died from climate disasters - there STILL WILL BE "cold and heat, winter and summer" etc... and some lucky people somewhere on the planet will be harvesting food.

Your argument is like quoting Jesus out of context and saying "He said there would always be the poor - so I don't have to do anything."

Lastly, I don't think you understand the genre of Genesis 1-11.

If you're going to read that chapter OVER science, please demonstrate where the floodgates of heaven are?

Because Noah's story is written in Ancient Middle Eastern cosmology. That includes the domes of heaven separating the waters above from the earth below, and those pesky floodgates. Where were they when the Apollo missions went to the moon? They had to go through them to get to the moon which is above the spheres!

Also, Noah's written in highly stylised Chiastic Structure. That's the Hebrew 'hamburger' story - where the most important 'meat' of the story is in the middle - and the events leading into it are mirrored each side. So going from the outside in you have the bread, cheese, sauce, lettuce, pickles, MEAT, pickles, lettuce, sauce, cheese and back to bread again.

What's the most important part of this story? Noah safe on top of the waters! God's saving action in human history. What does this mean about the genre of Noah's flood? It's HIGHLY STYLISED - almost like a parable but with real characters in the background.

It also means "No flood in future" is just mirroring the warning of the flood - not saying anything specific about climate change. It's more like "This particular event" won't happen again.

Check it out!

Chiastic structure - Wikipedia

There was a flood and a man named Noah - but this story has been dressed up as the end of the world and the relative stability afterwards as a promise that God would not judge or 'undo' his creation in that manner again. It is NOT a valid reason for Christians today to rip it out of the unique genre of Genesis 1-11 and slam science with it. Indeed,

 

[dqhall]

If climate change is the changing thermostat of the planet, AMOC is the heat-pump ocean current that spreads that heat around. If that heat stops moving northwards from the equator some very bad things could be locked into place. Like the last few year's La Nina. I personally prefer Australia being super-wet than super-dry. I couldn't BREATHE properly when the mega-fires of 2019/2020 burned across the east coast for 6 months. Sydney was brown for MONTHS. We prayed and prayed for rain. Who would have thought - in such awful drought conditions - one could eventually get sick of rain? But after fires come the floods - worse than ever before. Weirder and more intense than before. Rain and ongoing humidity so that EVERYTHING is covered in mould. A friend's dartboard on his veranda is just covered in huge mould patches. Kids unable to play soccer a WHOLE SEASON - with maybe 1 match only allowed - because the grounds are too sodden and running on them would destroy the lawns. Homes leaking. Home's moving and cracking as the soil moves. Landslides. Lawns overgrown because we can't find a day to mow. People trapped at home for 2 years during a pandemic now unable to go enjoy walks because it is almost always raining. Entire towns like Lismore being flooded. Twice. The town may have to move.

And now it could become PERMANENT?

The first thing the model simulations revealed was that without the Atlantic overturning, a massive pile-up of heat builds up just south of the Equator.​

This excess of tropical Atlantic heat pushes more warm moist air into the upper troposphere (around 10 kilometres into the atmosphere), causing dry air to descend over the east Pacific.

The descending air then strengthens trade winds, which pushes warm water towards the Indonesian seas. And this helps put the tropical Pacific into a La Niña-like state.

Australians may think of La Niña summers as cool and wet. But under the long-term warming trend of climate change, their worst impacts will be flooding rain, especially over the east.

We also show an Atlantic overturning shutdown would be felt as far south as Antarctica. Rising warm air over the West Pacific would trigger wind changes that propagate south to Antarctica. This would deepen the atmospheric low-pressure system over the Amundsen Sea, which sits off west Antarctica.

This low pressure system is known to influence ice sheet and ice shelf melt, as well as ocean circulation and sea-ice extent as far west as the Ross Sea.​

The recent wet weather could become the norm in Australia — if this huge ocean current collapses

In Florida, if you do not run your AC during the summer, your home might fill with mildew and black mold. This is the way it has always been. We are surrounded by ocean on three sides. I am about 250 miles north of the tropics. My AC is set to 78 F. Retirees with winter homes in Florida went north in the spring and left their AC on all summer. In the winter the air is dryer and at night spew needed heat sometimes.

The glaciers in the Alps of Europe may disappear.

In Texas they are burning more natural gas to run their AC systems. This is putting more CO2 in the air. Poorer nations are burning coal for electricity. The price of coal spiked higher. The price of solar cells is higher too.

 

[eclipsenow]

Let's also not forget that fossil fuels are finite.
While America might have enough coal to last her for 450 years - that's based on the 3 most deceptive words in resource reporting. "At current rates..." Since the industrial revolution there hasn't really been almost any resource that is used "at current rates" - it's (generally speaking) an increasing demand. The world's population is expected to hit 10 billion by 2050ish. Many countries have already peaked in their local resource extraction of oil, gas, and even coal. If we shared out resources on a global market, this is the lifetime of various resources....

This one is based on 'current rates' from 2015.

 

[jacorian]

If climate change is the changing thermostat of the planet, AMOC is the heat-pump ocean current that spreads that heat around. If that heat stops moving northwards from the equator some very bad things could be locked into place. Like the last few year's La Nina. I personally prefer Australia being super-wet than super-dry. I couldn't BREATHE properly when the mega-fires of 2019/2020 burned across the east coast for 6 months. Sydney was brown for MONTHS. We prayed and prayed for rain. Who would have thought - in such awful drought conditions - one could eventually get sick of rain? But after fires come the floods - worse than ever before. Weirder and more intense than before. Rain and ongoing humidity so that EVERYTHING is covered in mould. A friend's dartboard on his veranda is just covered in huge mould patches. Kids unable to play soccer a WHOLE SEASON - with maybe 1 match only allowed - because the grounds are too sodden and running on them would destroy the lawns. Homes leaking. Home's moving and cracking as the soil moves. Landslides. Lawns overgrown because we can't find a day to mow. People trapped at home for 2 years during a pandemic now unable to go enjoy walks because it is almost always raining. Entire towns like Lismore being flooded. Twice. The town may have to move.

And now it could become PERMANENT?

​

The first thing the model simulations revealed was that without the Atlantic overturning, a massive pile-up of heat builds up just south of the Equator.​

​

This excess of tropical Atlantic heat pushes more warm moist air into the upper troposphere (around 10 kilometres into the atmosphere), causing dry air to descend over the east Pacific.​

​

The descending air then strengthens trade winds, which pushes warm water towards the Indonesian seas. And this helps put the tropical Pacific into a La Niña-like state.​

​

Australians may think of La Niña summers as cool and wet. But under the long-term warming trend of climate change, their worst impacts will be flooding rain, especially over the east.​

​

We also show an Atlantic overturning shutdown would be felt as far south as Antarctica. Rising warm air over the West Pacific would trigger wind changes that propagate south to Antarctica. This would deepen the atmospheric low-pressure system over the Amundsen Sea, which sits off west Antarctica.​

​

This low pressure system is known to influence ice sheet and ice shelf melt, as well as ocean circulation and sea-ice extent as far west as the Ross Sea.​

​

The recent wet weather could become the norm in Australia — if this huge ocean current collapses

 

[jacorian]

A quick concept from oceanography. The job of tropical waters is to transport warm water to the poles while the job of polar waters is to transport cold water to the tropics.

 

[eclipsenow]

A quick concept from oceanography. The job of tropical waters is to transport warm water to the poles while the job of polar waters is to transport cold water to the tropics.

Agreed. And yet salt balances can impact this 'ocean pump'.

 

[Frank Robert]

(b) Global-mean temperatures for 2016, 2020 and parts of 2015 and 2023 expressed as differences (⁰C) from 1850-1900 levels.
It couldn’t happen to a nicer planet. Too bad it’s happening to ours.

 

[Frank Robert]

 

[Tinker Grey]

@Frank Robert , Tom Waits is one my favorites. I have all his studio albums + a few. Waits sang that song on Letterman's last show.