Last one I promise about baptism

[Biblicist]

I might add you are skating on thin ice with regard to forum rules by implying I will go to hell for disagreeing with your pet doctrine

I think that it would be safe to say that in general our more astute congregations would be reluctant to allow someone into membership who refuses to be water baptised; many would even question if the person is truly born again but this particular aspect would be waived if they spoke in tongues.

As for ByTheSpirit's remarks breaking any forum rules, as he is simply restating the historical theological position of the wider Church then he is definitely on safe ground.

 

[FoundInGrace]

I think that it would be safe to say that in general our more astute congregations would be reluctant to allow someone into membership who refuses to be water baptised; many would even question if the person is truly born again but this particular aspect would be waived if they spoke in tongues.

As for ByTheSpirit's remarks breaking any forum rules, as he is simply restating the historical theological position of the wider Church then he is definitely on safe ground.

To be honest I'm really surprised to hear that would be an issue in order to be part of a congregation, simply because the churche's I've been in as far as I know support baptism but don't require it to be a member and would not consider not being baptized as an indicator of salvation etc. I went to a church for a long time before I was baptized and it was never an issue, no one questioned I was saved, I didn't need to speak in tongues to make up for it or anything.

ByTheSpirit's remarks did have imply things which are against the rules to say to someone.

 

[Biblicist]

To be honest I'm really surprised to hear that would be an issue in order to be part of a congregation, simply because the churche's I've been in as far as I know support baptism but don't require it to be a member and would not consider not being baptized as an indicator of salvation etc. I went to a church for a long time before I was baptized and it was never an issue, no one questioned I was saved, I didn't need to speak in tongues to make up for it or anything.

ByTheSpirit's remarks did have imply things which are against the rules to say to someone.

Here's where I rather cheekily inserted "astute" congregations as I appreciate that there are a lot of congregations that sadly would not have a solid position regarding water baptism; for that matter many congregations seem content to simply go with the flow - too bad that they don't go with the flow of water in baptism (I know, it was a bad pun).

Even though I attend a seeker-sensitive mega-church which can at times be a bit too over-accommodating for my likes, I am at least impressed with our leaderships stand that water baptism is obligatory for membership to the degree that we will not accept infant baptism but only believers baptism.

I appreciate that for those who may have been raised in a denomination that teaches paedo-baptism that the expectation that they will follow up with a believers baptism that this could be a bit troublesome for some; but when it comes to someone who has professed Jesus as a teen or adult and who refuses water baptism, then this should immediately raise a few red flags and they should certainly never, absolutely never be permitted to become members of a local Christian community, though they could undoubtedly be permitted to be connected as "attendees".

 

[FoundInGrace]

Here's where I rather cheekily inserted "astute" congregations as I appreciate that there are a lot of congregations that sadly would not have a solid position regarding water baptism; for that matter many congregations seem content to simply go with the flow - too bad that they don't go with the flow of water in baptism (I know, it was a bad pun).

Even though I attend a seeker-sensitive mega-church which can at times be a bit too over-accommodating for my likes, I am at least impressed with our leaderships stand that water baptism is obligatory for membership to the degree that we will not accept infant baptism but only believers baptism.

I appreciate that for those who may have been raised in a denomination that teaches paedo-baptism that the expectation that they will follow up with a believers baptism that this could be a bit troublesome for some; but when it comes to someone who has professed Jesus as a teen or adult and who refuses water baptism, then this should immediately raise a few red flags and they should certainly never, absolutely never be permitted to become members of a local Christian community, though they could undoubtedly be permitted to be connected as "attendees".

wow, ok, thanks for sharing your thoughts about it, I seriously never realized baptism was so controversial in some churches.
God bless

 

[chapmic]

Scripture doesn't support that; this is pure supposition.


True but this is how everyone is "saved"; when did it happen for the disciples, as their actions before the resurrection didn't support their belief. None of them truly believed Jesus would rise again. Hadn't the foggiest clue. On the eve of the crucifixion Peter - the closest to the Christ, denied him not once, but three times. Judas betrayed the Christ. And after the crucifixion they went back to their old lives. The women brought annointing oils for burial to annoint a dead body and not a ressurected one.

Perhaps our current understanding of what/how/when one is saved need to be looked at.

It sounds like your overthinking it, and just become they made mistakes doesn't mean they didn't believe. No Christian is perfect, it is only our faith and our heart for Jesus that saves us. So to try breakdown the precise moment when someone else is saved is impossible for us to do, only Jesus knows people heart so, he is the only one to know who is truly saved.

 

[Norah63]

It doesn't seem to me it is the baptism as much as who does it for the person.
Authority is the real issue that I have noticed.
One person I know of was baptized at least four times. Because every time a new teacher or church fellowship was entered they required the baptism by their hands.
If everyone. Just baptized their self maybe it could be solved. Who knows.
And yes I've been baptized.

 

[Andry]

It sounds like your overthinking it, and just become they made mistakes doesn't mean they didn't believe. No Christian is perfect, it is only our faith and our heart for Jesus that saves us. So to try breakdown the precise moment when someone else is saved is impossible for us to do, only Jesus knows people heart so, he is the only one to know who is truly saved.

Not at all, on the contrary, it's most of us that are. It seems like we want to get a precise moment of when we're "saved" just so we can have the assurance that we'll go to heaven when we die because we've become destinationally-minded. Jesus was instead directionally-minded, which was walking with the disciples in the right direction and you'll get to where you need to be; that's why Scripture is silent on when they were "saved" or when they were baptised, but all the while still walking with Christ. Just get your life's journey in the proper direction, and it'll sort itself out. The reality is some know exactly when they're saved, others think they are but aren't, and others don't think they are, but are saved.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Not at all, on the contrary, it's most of us that are. It seems like we want to get a precise moment of when we're "saved" just so we can have the assurance that we'll go to heaven when we die because we've become destinationally-minded. Jesus was instead directionally-minded, which was walking with the disciples in the right direction and you'll get to where you need to be; that's why Scripture is silent on when they were "saved" or when they were baptised, but all the while still walking with Christ. Just get your life's journey in the proper direction, and it'll sort itself out. The reality is some know exactly when they're saved, others think they are but aren't, and others don't think they are, but are saved.

Good stuff, may I add something (and you may disagree) but the scriptures only guarantee salvation to those who walk with the Spirit. Those who live carnally and disobediently may receive salvation, but I don't find a guarantee about that. The scriptures say only those led by the Spirit of God are children of God and the Spirit never leads to sin. So when we become carnally minded we put ourselves en danger. I view salvation as meaning, what we receive on the day of judgement. We are saved from God's wrath because we lived by His Spirit.

I know some may view this as they do my thread(s) on baptism. That's okay. God does promise us eternal life, but only if we abide in his Son. Those who do not are not promised eternal life.

Anyways, that's another topic...

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Baptism (as per the OP), I may not completely understand, but I am growing. I've had people tell me it is not necessary ever, just something to do if you want to be a Pastor or if you feel specifically led to do. I worry about such positions. I view baptism like such: most churches I've attended after the preaching will ask people to come forward to pray. I believe this has replaced baptism. That in the Apostolic Age, baptism was the convert's way to initially demonstrate their faith. That is why I believe Peter said it saved, because you were demonstrating your faith in the act and without it you couldn't have saving faith because saving faith leads to obedience, which baptism is an act of obedience.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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