Kyle Rittenhouse - hero

[Aldebaran]

Well they sure got theirs, didn't they?

Just ... wow. Sick.

If you say so.

 

[Leroy Kattein]

You are entitled to your opinion, but your entire post is in error. The government of "Wisconsin investigated Kyle for a year and determined that he did not break the laws of Wisconsin.

Kyle's stated business was to help people and protect property. He needed the gun for protection from rioters while helping others. Open carry is legal and is not a cause for provocation. Everyone who attacked him was breaking the law.

How about applying your morality to the rioters?
They had no good business being there after the first night did over 2 million dollars of damage to the community.
Who invited them to the streets of Kenosha?
They were provoking people with threats, fires, and weapons.
Many of them had illegal weapons or used common items as weapons, illegally.

If BLM thought Kenosha's lives were important, they would have policed themselves, paid for the damages, and helped the community recover. Instead, they continued their protests giving cover to rioters, arsonists, and attempted murderers.

Amazingly, all you can do is whine about Kyle while the real troublemakers get celebrated.

As you say he appointed himself as guardian and protector, brought a gun to the riot and created a confrontation that got two killed and one badly injured. He had no authority to do but of himself. It was an unnecessary tragic event. But it did happen.

Now We pray for those who lost loved ones that they not become angry and bitter.
We pray for the injured that he be fully restored to health.
We pray for Kyle for wherever he goes the rest of his life this event will be the elephant in the room with him. That this event helps him to become a better man, that it does not ruin his life with regrets and doubt. I pray for this and hope others do also.

Jesus said:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

This is my final post in this thread. Jesus made it obvious what to do.

 

[Peter J Barban]

We need to put this lie to bed right now.

Does anyone believe that sharing the public streets with rioters gives them the legal or moral right to attack you?

Does anyone really believe that openly carrying a gun (where legal) gives others the legal or moral right to attack them?

Does anyone really believe that Kyle created the confrontation by stopping arson and defending his life?

Does anyone believe that defending your life gives others the legal or moral right to attack them?

The prosecution tried to make these points but the jury rejected them. If you still side with the failed prosecution, you are so far into the darkness that you can no longer see the light.

 

[HannahT]

Does anyone believe that sharing the public streets with rioters gives them the legal or moral right to attack you?

Peter most of those that are commenting seem not have to have watched or listened to the trial. No doubt they have heard little soundbites here and there, but there were tidbits that were important that came out that the media didn't report on. I was taken back by them myself, and no offense to the DA but he was awful. His own witnesses? You would think they were for the defense and NOT his side.

The only one I was doubting prior to trial was Rosenbaum (1st man shot). Things were not really clear in his case. The other two? He was clearly hit twice with a skateboard and he was pulling on Rittenhouse. I wasn't sure at first what he was pulling, and it turned out to be his gun. His decision that night sadly resulted in him being shot and killed. The third man shot had more than enough time to back off, and he didn't. He admitted in court that he pointed his own gun at Rittenhouse's head, and that is when he shot him. He also made a bad decision that night to point his gun at someone, and I'm not sure he thought was going to happen. When you point a gun at someone that has a gun? Chances are someone is going to fire under those kinds of circumstances.

Rosenbaum? That man was clearly out of his mind that night. His family should be talking to a lawyer about WHY the mental hospital decided that night was a good decision to release him when he mental state was as it was. I really feel the hospital has some liability in what happened to him that night. Witness and video evidence showed he was aggressive, dangerous and was threatening everyone. Even rioters kept a distance from him as he went around calling everyone the Nword while showing outrageous behavior. The DA's own forensics witness testified that he had his hands on the barrel of Rittenhouse's gun, and the trajectory of the crucial shot? Showed also that he was lunging at him while grabbing the firearm. This was after he was chasing Rittenhouse, and as Rittenhouse was trying to evade him. Rosenbaum also had another man (the one that also shot a gun before he got killed - not Rittenhouse) egging Rosenbaum on - which of course is NOT something you do to someone that isn't in their right mind to begin with. Witnesses near Rosenbaum when he got shot? They were pretty clear as to his mindset at the time as they watched him lung at Rittenhouse.

Rioters are dangerous to begin with. They are acting illegally and immorally by their own actions. They were also packing.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If Kyle Rittenhouse can claim self defense because of people trying to take his gun away, those people can claim self defense as trying to remove a threat to the group of unarmed protesters. Rittenhouse's presence itself could reasonably be seen as a threat just by the amount of firepower he carried. If Rittenhouse justifies his presence as trying to protect businesses, those that tried to disarm Rittenhouse can justify their actions by trying to protect people's lives.

 

[Aldebaran]

If Kyle Rittenhouse can claim self defense because of people trying to take his gun away, those people can claim self defense as trying to remove a threat to the group of unarmed protesters.

He wasn't a threat to them until they attacked him, which is why only his attackers got shot.

Rittenhouse's presence itself could reasonably be seen as a threat just by the amount of firepower he carried.

Nonsense! Attacking a person based on them carrying a gun of ANY kind would be stupid. If a person felt threatened by Rittenhouse's gun, they should have called the police. Customers at places like Wal-Mart do that if they see someone legally carrying and are still freaked out by it. I've never heard of an armed Wal-Mart customer being attacked by a mob in the name of self-defense.

If Rittenhouse justifies his presence as trying to protect businesses, those that tried to disarm Rittenhouse can justify their actions by trying to protect people's lives.

Their other actions as seen on the videos would dispel that notion.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

He wasn't a threat to them until they attacked him..

He certainly may have appeared to be a threat at the time. The law on self-defense relates to whether the person defending himself might reasonably have felt an imminent threat to his life or great bodily harm. Seems reasonable to me.

Nonsense! Attacking a person based on them carrying a gun of ANY kind would be stupid.

That is your opinion. Stupid or not, it may still have been justified.

If a person felt threatened by Rittenhouse's gun, they should have called the police.

If Rittenhouse felt the businesses of Kenosha were threatened, he should have called the police. No, wait, they were already there. So, no need to him to do anything.

Customers at places like Wal-Mart do that if they see someone legally carrying and are still freaked out by it. I've never heard of an armed Wal-Mart customer being attacked by a mob in the name of self-defense.

The passengers on United Flight 93 attacked an armed passenger on 9/11. I've heard of that. So that's a mob attacking an armed person in the name of self-defense.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I think it is a sad thing when Christians espousing belief in the commandments and "thou shalt not kill" can celebrate one who kills as a hero. I think Kyle should have stayed home.

Especially when it could not be more obvious that Kyle Rittenhouse lacked the legal qualifications to be at the site to pretend he was a cop or security guard. At age 17, he certainly had no business being there to do anything, even without a gun. People say there was no way to prove a curfew was in place but none of them proved there was NOT a curfew either.

 

[Aldebaran]

He certainly may have appeared to be a threat at the time. The law on self-defense relates to whether the person defending himself might reasonably have felt an imminent threat to his life or great bodily harm. Seems reasonable to me.

If by "person defending himself" includes person yelling death threats against someone and then chasing a kid who was just trying to put out a fire at a gas station that the "person defending himself" started, then you might have a point.

That is your opinion. Stupid or not, it may still have been justified

The legal process determined otherwise.

If Rittenhouse felt the businesses of Kenosha were threatened, he should have called the police. No, wait, they were already there. So, no need to him to do anything.

Right, there was a need for the police to do something, which they weren't. So there ya go.

The passengers on United Flight 93 attacked an armed passenger on 9/11. I've heard of that. So that's a mob attacking an armed person in the name of self-defense.

Sure, after the armed passenger cut the throats of the flight attendants and pilots. KR didn't shoot anyone until he was attacked and couldn't escape.

 

[Aldebaran]

I think it is a sad thing when Christians espousing belief in the commandments and "thou shalt not kill" can celebrate one who kills as a hero. I think Kyle should have stayed home.

David was celebrated for those he killed, and was the apple of God's eye. "Saul killed his thousands, and David killed his ten thousands!"

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The legal process determined otherwise.

The legal process has been known to make mistakes.

Right, there was a need for the police to do something, which they weren't.

Perhaps the police were wiser than Kyle Rittenhouse. They managed not to kill anyone that night.

 

[Aldebaran]

The legal process has been known to make mistakes.

Such as when 3 people who defended themselves against a black guy (Ahmaud Arbery) who tried to grab a shotgun and shoot people who simply wanted to ask him a question?

Perhaps the police were wiser than Kyle Rittenhouse. They managed not to kill anyone that night.

Standing back and doing nothing while a community burns doesn't accomplish much, as the members of the community learned.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Such as when 3 people who defended themselves against a black guy (Ahmaud Arbery) who tried to grab a shotgun and shoot people who simply wanted to ask him a question?

No, that was a case where they legal system finally did got it right. (Ahmaud Arbery was shot the first time before he tried to grab the gun. After that he was clearly defending himself from an ongoing attack.)

Standing back and doing nothing while a community burns doesn't accomplish much, as the members of the community learned.

Wading in and killing two guys and wounding a third did not accomplish anything either. (Other than killing two people and wounding a third.)

 

[Aldebaran]

No, that was a case where they legal system finally did got it right. (Ahmaud Arbery was shot the first time before he tried to grab the gun. After that he was clearly defending himself from an ongoing attack.)

I've seen the video countless times. It shows him grabbing the shotgun just before the first shot went off. The video was played by the MSM many times, and I doubt they would edit anything to influence the public in any way.

Wading in and killing two guys and wounding a third did not accomplish anything either. (Other than killing two people and wounding a third.)

Running for his life isn't "wading in", but nice try anyway. As for what was accomplished--the fact that Rittenhouse is alive indicates that it saved his life. That's quite an accomplishment to achieve after being attacked by 3 people who showed clear intent in causing him harm.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I've seen the video countless times. It shows him grabbing the shotgun just before the first shot went off.

That's just wrong. The first shot is fired while Arberys' white tee shirt can be see through the windshield of the truck as Travis is seen leaning toward him that Arbery is shot in the chest. Arbery clearly was trying to avoid Travis after running from the three of them for four minutes. That's self defense against an unjustified attempt at a citizens arrest, even by the standards in effect at the time.

Running for his life isn't "wading in",

Going there armed the way he did was wading in. But the point remains he accomplished nothing good by his efforts to do what he thought the police should have been doing. All he did was kill two people and wound a third. He didn't save any businesses. He didn't restore peace. His coming to Kenosha only brought more violence than was already there. The goal of legitimate police is to reduce violence. Kyle not only didn't accomplish that goal, he added to the violence.

 

[Aldebaran]

That's just wrong. The first shot is fired while Arberys' white tee shirt can be see through the windshield of the truck as Travis is seen leaning toward him that Arbery is shot in the chest. Arbery clearly was trying to avoid Travis after running from the three of them for four minutes. That's self defense against an unjustified attempt at a citizens arrest, even by the standards in effect at the time.

The old narrative is that Arbury was "jogger" out for a run. Are you sure you want to say he was running from the three, especially when the video clearly shows him running towards two of them?

Going there armed the way he did was wading in. But the point remains he accomplished nothing good by his efforts to do what he thought the police should have been doing. All he did was kill two people and wound a third. He didn't save any businesses. He didn't restore peace. His coming to Kenosha only brought more violence than was already there. The goal of legitimate police is to reduce violence. Kyle not only didn't accomplish that goal, he added to the violence.

That's what it took to defend himself. He had every right to do that.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The old narrative is that Arbury was "jogger" out for a run. Are you sure you want to say he was running from the three, especially when the video clearly shows him running towards two of them?

Of course. They had him boxed in from in front and behind.


That's what it took to defend himself. He had every right to do that.[/QUOTE]

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The old narrative is that Arbury was "jogger" out for a run. Are you sure you want to say he was running from the three, especially when the video clearly shows him running towards two of them?

Of course. They had him boxed in at the end.

 

[Aldebaran]

Of course. They had him boxed in from in front and behind.

I've had people in front and behind me when I've been out for a jog. Never felt the need to attack anyone though. He had the ability to run past them, but instead ran toward the one with the shotgun and then grabbed it. "Joggers" don't do that.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I've had people in front and behind me when I've been out for a jog. Never felt the need to attack anyone though.

I'll bet you were not a black man running in Georgia with three white guys chasing you for four minutes in two vehicles yelling at you to stop and carrying guns. I'll bet that never happened to you.

He had the ability to run past them..

He tried, but they blocked his way. Even then he tried to run to the right around the truck, but when Travis pointed a gun at him he was certainly justified in feeling an imminent threat to his life, like so many before him.