Knowing about God ≠ knowing God?

Shroom · Mar 16, 2018

Hi all,

I had a conversation with somebody from a new church I'm looking into recently about my recent ruminations. It was about how, albeit casual, I had a Roman Catholic upbringing and a basic idea of what God was but despite this, I felt that I had a very shaky sense of self and uncertainty about my future. My neighbour, a Muslim who emigrated from Iran, described to me how he fought to make his life better and he talked about God as this tangible thing that interacted with him in his daily life, saying that He was a father to him and he used to have the same directionlessness that I have now and still would without God and I wanted that sort of relationship. So when this person from this church heard me describe this, she said that it was because my upbringing didn't really give me a way of developing a relationship with God, that it was more just an institutional tradition than any faith, citing that my family only goes to church during Easter and Christmas as an example.

So what's the difference between knowing and KNOWING God? How do I get that tangible, daily relationship my Iranian neighbour describes? Right now I feel that praying is as effective and meaningful as speaking to my ceiling.

Halbhh · Mar 16, 2018

Shroom said:
Hi all,

I had a conversation with somebody from a new church I'm looking into recently about my recent ruminations. It was about how, albeit casual, I had a Roman Catholic upbringing and a basic idea of what God was but despite this, I felt that I had a very shaky sense of self and uncertainty about my future. My neighbour, a Muslim who emigrated from Iran, described to me how he fought to make his life better and he talked about God as this tangible thing that interacted with him in his daily life, saying that He was a father to him and he used to have the same directionlessness that I have now and still would without God and I wanted that sort of relationship. So when this person from this church heard me describe this, she said that it was because my upbringing didn't really give me a way of developing a relationship with God, that it was more just an institutional tradition than any faith, citing that my family only goes to church during Easter and Christmas as an example.

So what's the difference between knowing and KNOWING God? How do I get that tangible, daily relationship my Iranian neighbour describes? Right now I feel that praying is as effective and meaningful as speaking to my ceiling.

Hearing more of the words from God, you will begin to know Him more. If you read through a gospel really taking your time and listening, you'll be so glad you did, and then you'll have a deeper and better sense of God from what He chose to say to you, having listened to His words through Christ. You'll have a deeper sense of God the Father. For instance, reading in Matthew chapter 7 will change a person if you are listening, trying to get what Jesus is saying. It's life altering. You will end up in a position to be able to pray to God knowing many of the most central things He has said to you. So, you'll better be able to pray to a Someone. Because that when you listen to Christ Jesus, you are hearing special words God chose to be to all of us, for all of us to hear, for you to hear, you want to really listen. Christ told us these very words would never pass away, even when this current heaven and Earth pass away.

Minoa · Mar 16, 2018

More than reading...you just instead of only talking to yourself in your head, talk to God, ask God to help you, ask him for advice....even though sometimes I admit I feel funny but I just make it a habit and dont always know if its God or my automatic subconscience giving me thoughts or answers.....but I often realize that I have a very good intuition and when I fail to heed it, I regret.
Basically you involve Jesus into your daily life, your daily decisions like shopping etc----if anything it will make you think a bit more about your habits and question them.

When you walk physically around the park, you can literally call it walk with God if you are experiencing his Creation and also talking to him. Don't only talk when you "want" something, do it regardless what the situation is----and most of all, when you are in critical situations and feel like being rash

Shroom · Mar 16, 2018

I'll definitely try that @Minoa, I'll so how it goes

Sketcher · Mar 17, 2018

Shroom said:
Hi all,

I had a conversation with somebody from a new church I'm looking into recently about my recent ruminations. It was about how, albeit casual, I had a Roman Catholic upbringing and a basic idea of what God was but despite this, I felt that I had a very shaky sense of self and uncertainty about my future. My neighbour, a Muslim who emigrated from Iran, described to me how he fought to make his life better and he talked about God as this tangible thing that interacted with him in his daily life, saying that He was a father to him and he used to have the same directionlessness that I have now and still would without God and I wanted that sort of relationship. So when this person from this church heard me describe this, she said that it was because my upbringing didn't really give me a way of developing a relationship with God, that it was more just an institutional tradition than any faith, citing that my family only goes to church during Easter and Christmas as an example.

So what's the difference between knowing and KNOWING God? How do I get that tangible, daily relationship my Iranian neighbour describes? Right now I feel that praying is as effective and meaningful as speaking to my ceiling.

You can find that kind of faith within the Roman Catholic tradition, the problem is you have to look to find it. I can't tell you how to look for it and find it from a Catholic perspective, though. I just know that there are and have been Roman Catholics who get it.

Jesus, the Apostles, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Samuel, David, Isaiah, Hezekiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, Ezekiel, Daniel, all had a personal faith with God. Our sins break that fellowship, but Jesus died and rose again to pay for those sins and make a real, personal relationship with God possible for us again. The life we live to God is to be one of thanksgiving and obedience, with Christ's work as the foundation. The thanksgiving is worship and obedience, and the obedience looks like many things, but one of its most important manifestations is loving our neighbors as ourselves, because Jesus commanded it.

Shroom · Mar 18, 2018

Sketcher said:
You can find that kind of faith within the Roman Catholic tradition, the problem is you have to look to find it. I can't tell you how to look for it and find it from a Catholic perspective, though. I just know that there are and have been Roman Catholics who get it.

Jesus, the Apostles, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Samuel, David, Isaiah, Hezekiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, Ezekiel, Daniel, all had a personal faith with God. Our sins break that fellowship, but Jesus died and rose again to pay for those sins and make a real, personal relationship with God possible for us again. The life we live to God is to be one of thanksgiving and obedience, with Christ's work as the foundation. The thanksgiving is worship and obedience, and the obedience looks like many things, but one of its most important manifestations is loving our neighbors as ourselves, because Jesus commanded it.

I mentioned the Roman Catholic background not to criticize it but to give the idea that I'm not unfamiliar with the tradition of Christian ideas, that though the background was very casually applied - again, we went to church 2 times a year - it was there and still I didn't get this relationship that I saw in my neighbour and I was told that I for granted had.

Sketcher · Mar 18, 2018

Shroom said:
I mentioned the Roman Catholic background not to criticize it but to give the idea that I'm not unfamiliar with the tradition of Christian ideas, that though the background was very casually applied - again, we went to church 2 times a year - it was there and still I didn't get this relationship that I saw in my neighbour and I was told that I for granted had.

I'm just trying to be fair to it. Some people you'll find, are less than fair to it.

Shroom · Mar 18, 2018

Sketcher said:
I'm just trying to be fair to it. Some people you'll find, are less than fair to it.

I'm not sure what you mean there, it's just another denomination and different people have different criticism of different religions

Sketcher · Mar 19, 2018

Shroom said:
I'm not sure what you mean there, it's just another denomination and different people have different criticism of different religions

Yes, I know that. There are some Protestants who don't though. When you meet one, you'll know what I mean.

aiki · Mar 21, 2018

Shroom said:
So what's the difference between knowing and KNOWING God? How do I get that tangible, daily relationship my Iranian neighbour describes? Right now I feel that praying is as effective and meaningful as speaking to my ceiling.

There's knowing about God and there's knowing Him personally as a Father and friend. The former knowledge is academic, purely fact-based, and may be several times removed from its object. I know, for example, about Donald Trump: He's bombastic, and crude, and egomaniacal; he's got bizarre hair; he's wealthy; he's the POTUS, and so on. Despite all the information I have about Trump, I still could not claim to know him personally, as a friend. My knowledge of Trump comes second, third and even fourth hand and involves no direct interaction with him at all. This is how many people claiming to be Christian "know" God. If I claimed to know Trump personally, I should be able to point to unique personal experiences of him that I have had: We went to dinner somewhere, or took a trip on his jet, or played golf (does Trump play golf?), or whatever; I should be able to point to direct, one-on-one conversations we've had and be able to give the substance of them; you should expect that if questioned about me, Trump would acknowledge our knowing one another, and so on. Fewer Christians can point to such experiences with God and so demonstrate that they truly know Him - and are known by Him.

There is only one way anyone can come into direct, personal relationship with God: Jesus Christ.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 10:9
9 I (Jesus) am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

Acts 4:12
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

John 3:36
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

It is through trusting in Christ as your Saviour and submission to him as Lord, turning from a life centered on yourself to one centered on him, and living in obedience to God's will and way that a genuine relationship with Him is obtained. And it is only through such a relationship that a real, personal experience of Him can be had.

Praying to God without a spiritual connection to Him (that is only made through faith in Christ) will leave you feeling like your prayers go no where. They probably do. There's only one prayer God will hear from someone lost in their sins and that is a prayer of faith in Christ and repentance from sin. Only when that prayer is made - and made sincerely, from the heart - is there any real connection to God.

Acts 3:19
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Shroom · Mar 23, 2018

aiki said:
There's knowing about God and there's knowing Him personally as a Father and friend. The former knowledge is academic, purely fact-based, and may be several times removed from its object. I know, for example, about Donald Trump: He's bombastic, and crude, and egomaniacal; he's got bizarre hair; he's wealthy; he's the POTUS, and so on. Despite all the information I have about Trump, I still could not claim to know him personally, as a friend. My knowledge of Trump comes second, third and even fourth hand and involves no direct interaction with him at all. This is how many people claiming to be Christian "know" God. If I claimed to know Trump personally, I should be able to point to unique personal experiences of him that I have had: We went to dinner somewhere, or took a trip on his jet, or played golf (does Trump play golf?), or whatever; I should be able to point to direct, one-on-one conversations we've had and be able to give the substance of them; you should expect that if questioned about me, Trump would acknowledge our knowing one another, and so on. Fewer Christians can point to such experiences with God and so demonstrate that they truly know Him - and are known by Him.

There is only one way anyone can come into direct, personal relationship with God: Jesus Christ.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 10:9
9 I (Jesus) am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

Acts 4:12
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

John 3:36
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

It is through trusting in Christ as your Saviour and submission to him as Lord, turning from a life centered on yourself to one centered on him, and living in obedience to God's will and way that a genuine relationship with Him is obtained. And it is only through such a relationship that a real, personal experience of Him can be had.

Praying to God without a spiritual connection to Him (that is only made through faith in Christ) will leave you feeling like your prayers go no where. They probably do. There's only one prayer God will hear from someone lost in their sins and that is a prayer of faith in Christ and repentance from sin. Only when that prayer is made - and made sincerely, from the heart - is there any real connection to God.

Acts 3:19
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Thanks for the game plan, after about a week of @Minoa 's suggestion, I kinda see how I can start implementing this.

DreamerOfTheHeart · Mar 24, 2018

Shroom said:
Hi all,

I had a conversation with somebody from a new church I'm looking into recently about my recent ruminations. It was about how, albeit casual, I had a Roman Catholic upbringing and a basic idea of what God was but despite this, I felt that I had a very shaky sense of self and uncertainty about my future. My neighbour, a Muslim who emigrated from Iran, described to me how he fought to make his life better and he talked about God as this tangible thing that interacted with him in his daily life, saying that He was a father to him and he used to have the same directionlessness that I have now and still would without God and I wanted that sort of relationship. So when this person from this church heard me describe this, she said that it was because my upbringing didn't really give me a way of developing a relationship with God, that it was more just an institutional tradition than any faith, citing that my family only goes to church during Easter and Christmas as an example.

So what's the difference between knowing and KNOWING God? How do I get that tangible, daily relationship my Iranian neighbour describes? Right now I feel that praying is as effective and meaningful as speaking to my ceiling.

You need to read the gospels, and ultimately, the rest of the Bible.

Knowing there is a God and knowing Jesus is his son does not have any value. Even the demons know these things.

How can you even begin to think you are following Christ, if you do not know what he said and wrote?

Knowing about God ≠ knowing God?

Shroom

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