Kent Hovind

[Joe V.]

Ambrosia, I think you have a lot more on your mind than Kent Hovind. I also think you're at the right website, but the wrong forum. I believe that there are a lot of good people here who'd be willing to help you out with whatever concerns you have. Talk to someone; maybe Seebs can point you to the right forum?

I hope you find the answers you're looking for.

- Joe

 

[Jerry Smith]

Ambrosia,

Please ask us our opinion of Kurt Wise, another creationist. Ask us about how honest we think he is. Ask us if we have any reason to believe he is less than honest whatsoever. Ask us if we respect his credentials, and whether we think he deserves the "Dr." in front of his name.

I hope you will consider that maybe we see Hovind differently from Wise for a good reason (that has little to do with the fact that he is a creationist)..

Jerry

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Ambrosia416
A liar. I can say no more on this subject. I am weary and I give up. He can defend himself. I guess I have finally learned one truth in my life....that people only hear what they want to hear and only repeat what they want to be true. I have told everyone here numerous times why he filed for bankrupcy, but no one is interested in that. Why should you be? Heck, if he were an honest man, then maybe evolution would be wrong and there might be proof for the existance of God. Oh, but that is truly unthinkable.

I don't think "evolution is wrong" would prove much of anything about God. If someone really wanted to not believe in God, he could just say "the space aliens who seeded this world gave us a history book, which we misunderstood", or something like that.

I hate people who use others for their own gain. I hate how this country allows people to get away with adultary, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, and abortion. I hate how no one cares enough to stop pronograhpy, I hate how people are quick to condemn prayer and saying "Jesus is Lord" in a public place and in the next moment wonder why this world's going to Hell.

I place a lot more blame on someone who appears to be running a con game, with churches and believers as the victims, than I do on people who are merely sinners - just like the rest of us.

I hate how I was taught to do whatever makes me feel good, then have people turn their back when I didn't do things the way they wanted. I hate how everyone is so quick to mock, lie, and condemn people while they turn around and do the same things.

I agree, but in some ways, I think it's worse when people get all up in arms about sins that they *aren't* tempted by. If I proudly brag that I've never had sex with another guy, how impressive is that? It's not as if I've ever wanted to. Since I've been married, I've never been seriously tempted by other women; does this give me the right to criticize those who *are* tempted? No. It means I'm in no position to understand their temptations, and thus, a bad position to judge them.

I hate how everyone can tell me how to think and what to believe, but when I suggest that they act compassionate for five minutes, I am stupid; I am wrong; I am childish.
Yes, maybe I am prejudiced about this Kent Hovind thing. At least I'll say so. I need someone to believe in, apparently that's asking a lot.

I think you'd do better to believe more in God, and less in individual men. There are good, honest, creationists in the world. There are good people who have come to believe in young-earth creation for legitimate reasons. I cannot convince myself that Kent is one of them.

Maybe he is a lliar, why not, everyone else seems to be. I want to believe what he says because it gives me a reason to think that this life is worth more than, "You're born, you live, you die. You're worthless."

Well, here's the thing. I don't believe Kent for a minute. I don't think the world is young, I don't think the first humans were literally "formed from dust". I believe that life as we know it probably arose as a direct result of the natural physical properties of the world.

But... this doesn't lead me to think "You're born, you live, you die. You're worthless." It leads me to think "Life isn't long enough to absorb all of the wonder." I am grateful to God for sunsets and thunderstorms, even though I can name physical processes by which they happen. Should I care? THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL. That's enough for me to respond with gratitude that the universe should be such that we find such beauty in it.

You know what all of you sound like? Like you can talk really big, until confrontation comes your way. Am I saying that's how you are? No, just what you sound like. If he's lying, he's lying, but I am sick of your bellyaching. What's your excuse? He's already been proven wrong. Why don't you call him with that news, then, so he'll shut his big mouth abd leave everyone alone.

Do you honestly think that'd work? I guess you've got a point; time and time again, I argue that we should confront sins, and then I write this guy off as though I don't think it'll do any good to confront him. Huh. You have a good point there.

Heck, I just spilled my guts to a bunch of people who could care less. Would it kill you to call him? No. It sure didn't harm me. Then again, maybe it did.

You're brave, I'll say that much for sure.

It sounds like you might benefit from taking a bit of a breather and hanging out in some of the Christians-only forums, maybe asking for advice, or to get a chance to talk to other people. Stay away from the evolution issue; it'll just turn into a pointless argument. Instead, why not start a thread on your concerns with the way you were raised? That sounds like something that bothers you a lot, and, from what little you've said, it bothers me a bit too. You might also want to post in prayer/advice/praise, asking for a few booster shots of prayer. Can't hurt.

Take care. Take a few deep breaths. Remember that, no matter how long the world has been here, God is eternal, and He loves you *now*. Ignore the rest of time; it's really not as important.

 

[ashibaka]

Originally posted by Ambrosia416
I hate how this country allows people to get away with adultary, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, and abortion.

The majority of people do not think the same way you do. You're free to rant about it, but it's not going to change unless if you can convince over 50% of voting Americans. Perhaps you should move to a country that does outlaw those things such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Iran.

I want to believe what he says because it gives me a reason to think that this life is worth more than, "You're born, you live, you die. You're worthless." Maybe that liar could reach something that everyone else failed to and I wanted to believe that one person could be honest; sincere. I want to believe a lot.

Just because you want to believe something doesn't mean you should believe it; that's called wishful thinking. Kindly learn how to separate fantasy from reality. Mr. Hovind is spewing out pure feel-good fantasy.

I'd recommend you quit this topic and discuss this sort of stuff in another forum. People here aren't necessarily going to be nice to you, as hard as we may try.

 

[ardipithecus]

Well I think it is now clear that Ambrosia416 thinks it is okay to lie, to lie often, to lie for any reason, to file file schedules, to lie in court, etc. 

And then we are expected accept what this liar has to say based on his good word? 

This man uses other people for his own gain, to use her own words.

And never mind that I and others have documented numerous example of Hovind making false claims about evolution. 

A few examples:

He claims that the sunflower has the closest cytochrome c to humans.  This is not even close to being true.

He claims that eohippus is a hyrax.  Again this is false.  And there are no hyraxes in South America Hovind notwithstanding.  And modern horses are not found in the same layers with it no matter what Hovind says.

He quotes people out of context.

He claims that a mammoth had different parts date differently.  He has maintained this though he seen the documentation that this is not true.  His response was simply to repeat the false claim.

He claims that the Earth's rotation is slowing down as such a rate that the dinosaurs would have seen 5000 mph winds.  This is outright false.

He blame that Trail of Tears on evolution.  That one is inane.

"Stephen Gould and Niles Eldredge have resurrected Gouldschmidt’s [sic] theory and come up with this idea called Punctuated Equilibrium. That’s supposed to explain why we don’t find the missing links. 'Yes boys and girls, maybe a reptile laid an egg and a bird hatched out!...'"  Reality is that Gould and Eldredge do NOT think that a reptile laid an egg and a bird come out and PE has nothing to do with Goldschmidt's ideas.

"What they don’t tell the kids is that the so-called Eohippus, the ancient horse, had 18 pairs of ribs, the next one had 15 pairs of ribs, the next one after that had 19 pairs, the next one after that had 18 pairs. The rib number changes back and forth. Well, that’s kind of interesting!"  Of course there is utterly no evolutionary reason for rib number to stay constant or to always decrease or increase.  This is expected.  "How is that critter going to survive?" The exact same way humans and animals with an "extra" or "missing" rib do today.

He actually uses the Moon dust claim.

He claims that there are no magnetic reversals on the ocean floor.  This one he got from Brown and is very much false.

He sells casts of the long discredited "man tracks."He makes plenty of false statments outside of creationism as well:

He claims that ozone is not produced in the polar regions and claims that CFCs are not found high up in the atmosphere.  Never mind that they have been directly detected there.

"By the way, proteins (which they wanted to create from those amino acids—[amino acids] bond to make proteins) they un-bond in water much faster than they bond,..."  That is some pretty bad chemistry.How about his claim that people pay for groceries by having their hands scanned.  That is as nutty as it gets.  No doubt computers that recognize customers is coming, but is not in grocery stores yet and was not in it years ago when Hovind started making this claim.

The simple fact is that Kent Hovind is widely considered to be a quack, a liar, and an embarrassment by many young-earth creationists.  Heck, many of his "arguments" are listed in Answers in Genesis's list of arguments NOT to use.

But no...it does not matter that Hovind has a long documented history of gross dishonesty.  It does not matter that he repeatedly make false claims.  Give me a break!

 

 

[ardipithecus]

Originally posted by Jerry Smith
Ambrosia,

Please ask us our opinion of Kurt Wise, another creationist. Ask us about how honest we think he is. Ask us if we have any reason to believe he is less than honest whatsoever. Ask us if we respect his credentials, and whether we think he deserves the "Dr." in front of his name.

I hope you will consider that maybe we see Hovind differently from Wise for a good reason (that has little to do with the fact that he is a creationist).. 

And lets not forget that Gould knew that Wise was a creationist when he (and the committee) granted him a Ph.D.  Wise sucessfully completed the program and thus was granted what he earned.  This is something that many creationists would rather not bring up.  Nor do they bring up how rare Wise is.  As Ronald Numbers has documented, many people started toward a doctorate in order to document creationism only to realize that evolution is true.

Hovind's phony doctorate is another reason to hold that man in utter contempt.    People spend years of their life working their butt off and often going deeply into debt in the process to earn a doctorate.  And here comes Hovind who buys a doctorate from a diploma mill.  Hovind is both lying to people when he says he has a doctorate and he is insulting the hard work that thousands of people have had to go through to get theirs.

 

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by ardipithecus
Well I think it is now clear that Ambrosia416 thinks it is okay to lie, to lie often, to lie for any reason, to file file schedules, to lie in court, etc. 

I don't think so. I think it's clear that Ambrosia is conflicted, and I think a bit of compassion for someone who is having trouble reconciling her beliefs about the world would do you credit.

 

[Ben Reid]

Originally posted by ardipithecus
Well I think it is now clear that Ambrosia416 thinks it is okay to lie, to lie often, to lie for any reason, to file file schedules, to lie in court, etc.

I think it is clear that you have a long way to go before learning to communicate as a mature adult.

Before you wrote this vitriolistic diatribe, did you stop and think that the person you are responding to is a human being?

Your emotional attack on Ambrosia was uncalled for. Try to be a bit more sympatheic in the future, OK.

 

[foolsparade]

ambrosia,you use the word "hate" alot,you sound like an unhappy person.you say you need someone to believe in?would'nt it be great if you believed in yourself.?

 

[Ambrosia416]

I apologize for taking so long in replying to this thread. My computer is kinda weird lately. Anyway, I just wanted to respond to some of the comments made to me.
Yes, I have been very conflicted lately, but that was no excuse to write that emotion-laden post. I was very frustrated. I am not stupid nor do I believe everything I hear. I was more upset with what had been said and I was having some family problems, which shouldn't have been brought into it. Mixed with my frustration, I wasn't being very rational and I apologize for it.

Now, I was accused of thinking that lying is ok. Apparently something was over looked in my last post. I hate lying. My mission has never been to protect a liar, but, rather, to confront him, if he is indeed a liar. I am sorry if I was unclear on that point. Lying is absolutely not ok with me, I wish to expose lies, but I believe in starting with the source and not with rumors. If the rumors prove to be true, then they will be shown as such. I suggest going to www.omniology.com

Second, I found Foolsparade's comment to be very interesting. Yes I did use the word "hate" alot, but did you happen to notice what it was that I hated? I hate that this country's morality is almost nonexistant. I don't hate people, or animals, or good things....I despise bad things. I will be the first one to tell you that I am unhappy where things such as adultary, abortion, lying, murder, and injustice are concerned, but that is because I rejoice in the truth. Sure I have problems, like everyone else, I was simply worng in posting them online.
Thanks for your time.
God bless,
Ambrosia

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by foolsparade
ambrosia,you use the word "hate" alot,you sound like an unhappy person.you say you need someone to believe in?would'nt it be great if you believed in yourself.?

How do you believe in yourself? What is there that i can do to help myself? I can't even put a stop to a headache, much less save my life. As for me, i'll rather believe in God Almighty.

Oh yeah, i like Kent Hovind. He's a good man. I wish there were more people like him, dedicated to spreading God's Word.

God bless you, friends!

Alex

 

[chickenman]

kent hovind is insane:

Hovind: "There are too many people here that cannot be controlled; so get rid of them. Thats why AIDS was purposefully developed in a Maryland laboratory to wipe out population."

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by chickenman
kent hovind is insane:

I've always wondered if HIV is a genetically engineered virus. I still do.

 

[Christian Soldier]

"And if he was not disgusting enough, Hovind is also an anti-semite. He is selling Fourth Reich of the Rich and has endorsed The Protocols of the Elders of Zion."---Ardipithecus

I am not here to defend Hovind's scientific opinions, he's not considered reputable by the major YEC organizations and leaders. However, this thread has degenerated into a personal attack on the man.

Ardipithecus has leveled some very serious charges, the primary one being that Hovind is an anti-semite. Being a Jew by birth (and Christian by faith), I have no sympathy for anti-semitism. However, when such serious charges are made, detailed and documented evidence must be presented to support the charges.

At this time, I must insist that Ardipithecus present significant evidence to support his charges. His link to Hovind's site proves nothing. His link to the Southern Poverty Law Center site proves nothing.

1. Please provide concrete in-depth evidence, clearly establishing that Hovind is an anti-semite.

2. I was unable to turn up anything on the Protocols, using the search engine at Hovind's site. Please provide an at-length, in-context quote from Hovind, where he endorses the book from an anti-semitic perspective.

3. Please provide at-length, in-context quotes from Fourth Reich of the Rich, which clearly establish that it is an anti-semitic book.

If you cannot provide the evidence I ask for, then your own character is in grave question.

 

[Ambrosia416]

Alexgb00, thanks. I agree completely. However, I am sorry for leading Foolsparade to believe that I need other people to give me livelyhood. That is not true. The lack of a father figure in my life made me more defensive and frustrated. Not because Mr. Hovind is that important to me, but because of the way most people decided to attack his reputation. Sounds kinda strange. I care about truth. If he lying let's go about exposing him in a civil manner instead of an all out attack on his person.

By the way, I am kinda insulted that some think lying is ok with me. I was frustrated for that very reason. This whole thing started because I can't stand lying. From Kent Hovind, nor anyone else.

Chickenman, I would appreciate the reference to your qoute from Kent Hovind. I have all of his tapes and he said something like what you put, but it seems like a pretty butchered version of the original.

Also, Kent Hovind is not an anti-semitic. If you could get a hold of his tape about Nazism, communism, etc. you will find that he is quite the opposite. Any reference he has on his website and in his tapes to anti-semitic literature are there for people to look at themselves so they will know that his quotes about anti-semitics are factual.

God Bless,
Ambrosia

 

[ardipithecus]

Originally posted by npetreley


I've always wondered if HIV is a genetically engineered virus. I still do.

 

You are aware that this virus can be found in tissue samples from times before the genetic code was solved.  HIV predates man's most crudest genetic engineering by a wide margin.

 

 

[ardipithecus]

Lets go to the catalog of the books by the publishing arm of a group of holocaust deniers:
Evidence for an international conspiracy, from an American perspective, <I>Fourth Reich of the Rich</I> documents centuries of ties between world revolutionaries and international financiers. Demonstrates how Rockefeller-Rothschild interests manipulate Communists and anti-Communists alike in the interests of one-world domination.

&nbsp;http://www.noontidepress.com/catalog/0012.html
<P dir=ltr>If you are in any way familiar with anti-semitism that should sound familiar.&nbsp; How about an online book from Noon Tide. How about a printed one.
<P dir=ltr>The book claims that the Roman Catholic Church is satanist, has standard trite about&nbsp; Illuminati, etc.&nbsp; All of which you can verify via a check the web.&nbsp; (Speaking of Catholics as Satanists, Hovind has worked with Jack Chick on his tracks and Chick's claims about the Catholic Church are very easy to find.)
<P dir=ltr>In any event there is a bit on the history o Protocols here.&nbsp; Notice what book, among&nbsp;others,&nbsp;the conspiracy nuts, cite as "proof" that Protocols is not a hoax.
<P dir=ltr>Here is a first hand report on Hovind and Protocols.
<P dir=ltr>Kent Hovind was asked via email about the matter.&nbsp; The question and the Hovind's response can be found here.&nbsp; Hovind failed to deny it.&nbsp; I can't image why he would not deny the allegation if it were false.
<P dir=ltr>&nbsp;
<P dir=ltr>I have stayed up way to late.&nbsp; Enough for now.
<P dir=ltr>&nbsp;
<P dir=ltr>&nbsp;

 

[jcdiedforall]

Let's see ... While Satan has all of you debating Dr. Hovind's accounting practices (like liberals getting us to debate non-issues like whether Creation should be taught in public schools, when the real question is, should there be public schools), the simple fact remains that all he uses throughout his seminars is the Bible, and he backs up all his research with the Bible. How can you belittle a man that is spreading the Gospel. Shame on you! It looks like "ambrosia" had a good experience and is really the only one it sounds like that bothered to pick up the phone and actually do some real research (science).

 

[chickenman]

haha, talking on the phone with kent hovind will never constitute science, not even in topsy turvy world. The fact is that hovind doesn't just use the bible, he uses a whole bunch of lies to support his assertions. He also has some absolutely insane ideas involving barcodes the new world order and satan

 

[foolsparade]

alexgb00, the fact that you have no idea how to help yourself is not surprising to me. You can't even stop a headache?? take aspirin or Advil, you do not know how to save a life?? yet another example of how you people want to pawn all of your accountability and actions and thoughts over to some God.

jcdiedforall, what does satan have to do with this???? so whoever questions your belief structure is possessed by satan? I feel as though I have just stepped back into time, funny stuff! The Bible? Thats all it takes to win you over? I believe the easter bunny has ya'll confused.