Keep city as white 'as much as possible,' council candidate says, stunning forum in Michigan

[variant]

And there's a significant difference of opinion on how much of it was racial and how much was economic.

More importantly though....we don't make the same negative assumptions about blacks or latinos or asians when they self segregate, even though they do.

We know why and when it started and how it progressed, so economic factors come after racial factors.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We know why and when it started and how it progressed, so economic factors come after racial factors.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[variant]

Thanks for your opinion.

My opinion and the people who did the majority of the research.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I presume you've purchased and read the actual study. If so, please provide some of the actual study results.

I posted that link because I had trouble copy pasting the pdf (I only post from my phone). If you Google the title, you can see the pdf on a link from Princeton.

 

[Ana the Ist]

My opinion and the people who did the majority of the research.

You haven't posted any research....let alone a majority.

 

[variant]

You haven't posted any research....let alone a majority.

It's out there. I don't consider it my responsibility to find and post 40 years of research.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I agree that power is not an intrinsic part of being a racist.

Ok.

But it is an illusion of power that is used to sell the superiority of one race over another to people flirting with racism. They are made to believe they are being victimized or they should fear the victim group because of their growing power and they need.

Sometimes? I mean, originally, it seemed to develop as a rational scientific explanation for the relative differences between societies.

With that said a LOT of people have used power to help define racism; a quick Google search supported that. My issue with those definitions is that they address systems and not individual motivations.

Right...I find it a bit suspicious when someone tries to redefine a word that already has a working definition. Part of the problem is the progression of postmodernism. Another part of the problem is that fields like sociology have moved progressively further from science in favor of advancing social or cultural or political narratives.

Were you aware there's an Association of Black Sociologists ? Not a problem in itself...but look at their "mission statement"...

About Us - The Association of Black Sociologists

Objectivity is essential to sociology. Anyone can frame a study or it's results to support a narrative...that doesn't make it true though. The fact that this group not only admits to being biased but does so openly...should say a lot about the state of the field in general.

What does this have to do with the definition of racism? Well some of these definitions come from sociology....and it certainly advances their narrative if they can redefine racism in a way that benefits their work.

The bottom line is...I can't think of any reason why the definition should change. The original definition works in all situations.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's out there. I don't consider it my responsibility to find and post 40 years of research.

Just in case you weren't aware....yes, there are scholars who consider white flight to be primarily economic or at least equally a result of racism and economics .

Leah Boustan: What Mid-Century White Flight Reveals about the Trump Electorate

Black migration definitely coincided with white relocation to the suburbs. But, many white suburban moves were unrelated to black arrivals, driven instead by rising incomes after the War, the baby boom, and new highway construction. Indeed, suburbanization was prevalent even in cities that received few black southerners, like Minneapolis-St. Paul. But there is a strong relationship between the number of black migrants to a northern city during this period and the number of whites who chose to relocate to the suburbs. For every black arrival, two whites left a typical city, a figure that puts a precise value on what contemporaries already knew: when black people move in, white people move out—à la the Younger family in A Raisin in the Sun.

And...

Still, only a portion of white flight can be traced to the classic dynamic of racial turnover. Cities were simply too segregated by race for many urban whites to actually encounter black neighbors. In 1940, the average white urban household lived more than three miles away from a black enclave. Yet despite substantial distance from black neighborhoods within the city, many white families chose to relocate to the suburbs as black migrants arrived

 

[variant]

Still, only a portion of white flight can be traced to the classic dynamic of racial turnover. Cities were simply too segregated by race for many urban whites to actually encounter black neighbors. In 1940, the average white urban household lived more than three miles away from a black enclave. Yet despite substantial distance from black neighborhoods within the city, many white families chose to relocate to the suburbs as black migrants arrived

We'll yeah, we see white flight start mainly when the institution of city and school segregation fall apart.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We'll yeah, we see white flight start mainly when the institution of city and school segregation falls apart.

Well iluvatar would disagree with that...his links make an argument for white flight starting in the 1910s. I suggested starting with the mid to late 60s...but he disagreed.

I think you're both kind of missing the point though....so I'll ask you the same question I asked him.

You don't believe that whites are somehow morally inferior to non-whites...do you? Specifically that whites are somehow more racist, bigoted, or xenophobic than other races?

You don't believe that whites are, as a group or individuals, somehow responsible for righting the moral mistakes of other whites?

 

[variant]

You don't believe that whites are somehow morally inferior to non-whites...do you? Specifically that whites are somehow more racist, bigoted, or xenophobic than other races?

No, we're just in the position to do the most damage and have.

You don't believe that whites are, as a group or individuals, somehow responsible for righting the moral mistakes of other whites?

I think we're responsible for the harms we help perpetuate not the ones we haven't caused.

What positive difference you'd like to make in the world is up to you.

 

[Ana the Ist]

No, we're just in the position to do the most damage and have.

Ok.

I think we're responsible for the harms we help perpetuate not the ones we haven't caused.

What positive difference you'd like to make in the world is up to you.

Ok...then we can reduce the whole issue of white flight to a simple set of facts.

1. Whites left urban areas for suburbs over a significant period of time.
2. The reasons were both racial and economic and nobody really knows which was more and which was less.

And if you want to add a lesson onto it, you can make it nonspecific to any race, like...

You shouldn't move away from or avoid moving near different races for racist reasons.

My only issue with the topic of white flight is that I rarely see it discussed in a fair, non-racist way.

 

[variant]

My only issue with the topic of white flight is that I rarely see it discussed in a fair, non-racist way.

Your issue seems to be that it is discussed in the terms that don't speak well of white people. Well tough.

The problem here is that the long term migration out of city's by white people has general long term economic consequences that we will be dealing with for generations.

Its best not to sugar coat it so that we can all feel like nothing happened.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Your issue seems to be that it is discussed in the terms that don't speak well of white people. Well tough.

Oh...I totally understand that I can't stop racists from blaming whites for each and everything under the sun.

The problem here is that the long term migration out of city's by white people has general long term economic consequences that we will be dealing with for generations.

Oh?

It's Clear 'White Flight' to Suburbs Isn't Reason Cities Struggle

"During the 1960s and ’70s, academic liberals, civil rights advocates, and others blamed the exodus on racism—”white flight” to the suburbs. However, since the ’70s, blacks have been fleeing some cities at higher rates than whites."

Sadly, I don't trust your amateur assessment.

Its best not to sugar coat it so that we can all feel like nothing happened.

Best we push back against racist narratives that try to simplify complex issues with "it's all because of racism"!

Otherwise you end up with people spouting off falsehoods that perpetuate biases.

 

[SummerMadness]

Jean Cramer reflects a certain an attitude that has been seen in the past and today, when an area becomes more ethnically diverse, white residents are more motivated to move. Her main motivation for keeping her city as white as much as possible is motivated by keeping foreign-born people out.

'White Flight' Remains a Reality

In the 1960s and '70s, "There goes the neighborhood" was both a popular punch line and a reflection of real-life unease. Many white homeowners felt fearful when the first minority family moved in down the block, convinced that it meant the area—and the value of their property—would quickly deteriorate.

Today, plenty of minorities are in the middle class (or beyond); such a demographic shift no longer signifies socioeconomic decline. So, aside from pure prejudice, there's no clear reason why "white flight" should persist.

And yet, a new study that examines residential segregation in America's suburbs concludes that it very much does.

There are racists that will defend this behavior, but it's simply perpetuating a process we've seen before.

 

[SummerMadness]

She may be out of the race and there are definitely other racists out there defending her views and those like her, but here are a few more gems from Jean Cramer...

Jean Cramer on a new couple in the neighborhood, one is American the spouse is Canadian: "Uhhh, they're both white. (So, that's okay?) Yeah. I don't know if Canadian would be foreign."

Jean Cramer is also not racist: "If black people, if a black couple wants to move in, fine. But to have the mixed marriage, no."


Jean Cramer, you will soon be gone and thankfully forgotten.

 

[Scholastica]

Jean Cramer on a new couple in the neighborhood, one is American the spouse is Canadian: "Uhhh, they're both white. (So, that's okay?) Yeah. I don't know if Canadian would be foreign."

Come on, lady. If you're going to be a xenophobe, at least be a consistent xenophobe.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why is it wrong to seek to keep a city's homogeneity intact?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[jayem]

Why is it wrong to seek to keep a city's homogeneity intact?

The racial homogeneity she’s talking about is inherently tribalistic. It’s a primitive instinct unfit for life in the 21st century and beyond. Tribalism is highly maladaptive in a time when populations are mobile and people of all different races and ethnicities encounter each other regularly. For the good of everyone in a modern society, our ancient tribal impulses must be suppressed—not promoted.