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Rut

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[2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Ka`aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."


Why did they build the Kaba? See Exodus 20:4 - 5 I know You muslims take this verse very serious so what are Kaba so different?
What is the different between the Kaba and the Gold calf Exodus 32:1 - 35
Kaba aren`t a house what I know either

2:127] As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed): "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient

When I read "Abraham shrine" I feel that is something wrong here.Why? Always in the Bible when peole take the honour to make something but that was God then God discipline see for example Numbers 20:1 -13, 22 - 29
 
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Steezie

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Why did they build the Kaba?

I can answer this part in a historical context, dont know if that will help at all but here it is.

The Kaaba is the holiest site in Islam.

According to the Qur'an, the Kaaba was built by Abraham and his sonIshmael. Islamic traditions state that the Kaaba "reflects" a house in heaven called al-Baytu l-Ma'mur and that it was first built by the first man, Adam. Ibrahim and Ismail rebuilt the Kaaba on the old foundations.

When Muhammad conquered Mecca, he destroyed the idols around the Kaaba which the Meccan pagans possessed.While destroying each idol, Muhammd recited Qur'an 17:81 which says "Truth has arrived and falsehood has perished for falsehood is by its nature bound to perish.'" Muhammad then entered the Kaaba and ordered all the pictures to be destroyed.

The area itself was probably a small town that had grown out of the spice trade but it was a neutral area where Arabs could come to escape tribal warfare that was, at the time, quite common. The ground around the Kaaba itself was neutral and no hostilities were allowed to take place. It isnt clear who enforced this rule or if it was just a widely respected rule with no special enforcements
 
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yaqovzadeek

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[2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Ka`aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."


Why did they build the Kaba? See Exodus 20:4 - 5 I know You muslims take this verse very serious so what are Kaba so different?
What is the different between the Kaba and the Gold calf Exodus 32:1 - 35
Kaba aren`t a house what I know either

2:127] As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed): "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient

When I read "Abraham shrine" I feel that is something wrong here.Why? Always in the Bible when peole take the honour to make something but that was God then God discipline see for example Numbers 20:1 -13, 22 - 29
What is the OP trying to say here it is rather ambiguos, please rephrase.
thank you
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka james the Just
 
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sunrise0

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kabah is the first place which God assigned to be for worshipping HIM. It was built by the angles , latter it was demolished , God ordered His Prophets; Abraham and Ishmael to rebuild it, they did.
God also ordered Abraham to perform Hajj, he did , and since then until today Hajj is performed annually by millions of Muslims from all over the world. this means that Islam is the religion of Abraham which is monotheism or Islam.
At a period of time after that the Pagans distorted the real meaning of Islam , they worshipped idols besides God , claiming that the idols make them closer and more accepted to God, then came the advent of Prophet Muhammad PBUH , he brought Islam back to its real meaning, millions of Muslims pray daily at Makkahs Mosque (Alkabah)
Hajj is mentioned in Isaiah 42 : 10-17 and the Holy Mosque in Makkah is mentioned in Isaiah 60 : 7
 
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kagol

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[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
Hajj is mentioned in Isaiah 42 : 10-17
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Isaiah 42 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:10 Sing to ADONAI a new song! Let his praise be sung from the ends of the earth by those sailing the sea and by everything in it, by the coastlands and those living there. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:11 Let the desert and its cities raise their voices, the villages where Kedar lives; let those living in Sela shout for joy; let them cry out from the mountaintops! [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:12 Let them give glory to ADONAI and proclaim his praise in the coastlands. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:13 ADONAI will go out like a soldier, like a soldier roused to the fury of battle; he will shout, yes, he raises the battle cry; as he triumphs over his foes. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:14 "For a long time I have held my peace, I have been silent, restrained myself. Now I will shriek like a woman in labor, panting and gasping for air. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:15 I will devastate mountains and hills, wither all their vegetation, turn the rivers into islands and dry up the lakes. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:16 The blind I will lead on a road they don't know, on roads they don't know I will lead them; I will turn darkness to light before them, and straighten their twisted paths. These are things I will do without fail. [/FONT]42:17 Those who trust in idols, who say to statues, 'You are our gods,' will be repulsed in utter shame.

Sorry......Where exactly?

And why are using 'corrupt' writings to prove the Qur'an?
 
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Islam_mulia

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[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Isaiah 42 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:10 Sing to ADONAI a new song! Let his praise be sung from the ends of the earth by those sailing the sea and by everything in it, by the coastlands and those living there. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:11 Let the desert and its cities raise their voices, the villages where Kedar lives; let those living in Sela shout for joy; let them cry out from the mountaintops! [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:12 Let them give glory to ADONAI and proclaim his praise in the coastlands. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:13 ADONAI will go out like a soldier, like a soldier roused to the fury of battle; he will shout, yes, he raises the battle cry; as he triumphs over his foes. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:14 "For a long time I have held my peace, I have been silent, restrained myself. Now I will shriek like a woman in labor, panting and gasping for air. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:15 I will devastate mountains and hills, wither all their vegetation, turn the rivers into islands and dry up the lakes. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:16 The blind I will lead on a road they don't know, on roads they don't know I will lead them; I will turn darkness to light before them, and straighten their twisted paths. These are things I will do without fail. [/FONT]42:17 Those who trust in idols, who say to statues, 'You are our gods,' will be repulsed in utter shame.

Sorry......Where exactly?

And why are using 'corrupt' writings to prove the Qur'an?
1. Do you take this as a 'prophecy' of some kind?

2. What is the significance of the 'new song' in Kedar. How is Kedar related to Muhammad, son of Abdullah.

3. The ending of the passage speaks about destruction of idolatory. Who destroyed the idols in the land of Kedar and got rid of idolatory from then on?
 
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kagol

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1. Do you take this as a 'prophecy' of some kind?
That's for another thread.

I quoted it in answer to previous post
Hajj is mentioned in Isaiah 42 : 10-17
by sunrise0.

Do you take it as a 'prophesy?

[/quote]2. What is the significance of the 'new song' in Kedar. How is Kedar related to Muhammad, son of Abdullah.[/quote]

I don't know. How is it related?

42:17 Those who trust in idols, who say to statues, 'You are our gods,' will be repulsed in utter shame.
3. The ending of the passage speaks about destruction of idolatory. Who destroyed the idols in the land of Kedar and got rid of idolatory from then on?

As far as I can see here it does not refer to one specific region but refers to anyone that does so.
And it doesn't say anything about some special one destroying them, it is a warning to all people not to believe in/worship idols
 
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kagol

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Hi sunrise0

kabah is the first place which God assigned to be for worshipping HIM. It was built by the angles , latter it was demolished , God ordered His Prophets; Abraham and Ishmael to rebuild it, they did.

Please tell me where this information comes from.

Thank you
 
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ahmadhassan

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[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Isaiah 42 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:10 Sing to ADONAI a new song! Let his praise be sung from the ends of the earth by those sailing the sea and by everything in it, by the coastlands and those living there. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:11 Let the desert and its cities raise their voices, the villages where Kedar lives; let those living in Sela shout for joy; let them cry out from the mountaintops! [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:12 Let them give glory to ADONAI and proclaim his praise in the coastlands. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:13 ADONAI will go out like a soldier, like a soldier roused to the fury of battle; he will shout, yes, he raises the battle cry; as he triumphs over his foes. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:14 "For a long time I have held my peace, I have been silent, restrained myself. Now I will shriek like a woman in labor, panting and gasping for air. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:15 I will devastate mountains and hills, wither all their vegetation, turn the rivers into islands and dry up the lakes. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]42:16 The blind I will lead on a road they don't know, on roads they don't know I will lead them; I will turn darkness to light before them, and straighten their twisted paths. These are things I will do without fail. [/FONT]42:17 Those who trust in idols, who say to statues, 'You are our gods,' will be repulsed in utter shame.

Sorry......Where exactly?

And why are using 'corrupt' writings to prove the Qur'an?
we can quote from bible and here is why
Is it justifiable for Muslims to quote the Bible or quote from it?
There appears to be two common and extreme misconceptions about the Muslims’ attitudes towards the Bible:
a) that Muslims base their faith in full or in part on the Bible;
b) that Muslims reject the Bible in toto and accept no single word of it.


For Muslims the Qur'an is the last but not the only holy book revealed by Allah to mankind through His messengers. It is, however, the only holy book which remained intact from the time of its revelation until the present time. Not only is the full text of the Qur'an available, but it is also available in the full and exact form as uttered by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) at the time of its revelation and in the original language in which it was revealed (Arabic). No addition, deletion, or interpolation found its way into the Qur'an. For Muslims, the Qur'an is the only remaining authoritative and authentic revelation available to mankind; authoritative because an objective study of the Qur'an clearly shows its divine origin; and authentic because of the conclusive evidence that it remained intact and was transmitted to us as it was revealed without being mixed with human and philosophical ideas and doctrines. As such, Muslims do not need any other scriptures to base their faith on, either in full or in part.
On the other hand, it is erroneous to think that Muslims reject the Bible in toto and do not accept a single passage of it. There are at least two reasons for this:
a) One of the main articles of faith in Islam is the belief in all prophets and messengers sent before the advent of the last of them, Prophet Muhammad. This also necessitates believing in the holy books revealed to those prophets in the original forms of their revelation;
b) According to the Qur'an all prophets were Muslims (i.e. those who consciously and lovingly submitted to the will of Allah), what they taught was nothing but earlier versions of Islam (conscious and loving submission to Allah) and their sincere followers were Muslims as well. The fact that the transmission of earlier revelations, prior to the Qur'an suffered from inaccuracies and misinterpretations does not justify a total and categorical rejection of such scriptures. There are bound to be some passages and portions of the Bible whose essence, if not wording, need not be rejected by Muslims.
Criterion of Acceptance

What is the Muslim basis or criterion for accepting or not accepting portions or passages from the Bible? The Qur'an itself provides such criterion:
"And unto you have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watch over it .... " The Holy Qur'an , Chapter 5 , Verse 48
This emphasizes two main aspects of the Qur'an:
a) The Qur'an confirms those teachings or passages of previous scriptures which remained intact.
b) The Qur'an is the last, complete, authoritative and authentic revelation. It is the final arbiter and the only criterion to correct any inaccuracy or misinterpretation which might have occurred in the transmission of scriptures. It helps in discovering human additions to or interpolations of previous revelations, even as it reveals possible deletions which might have taken place through the centuries prior to its revelation (the Qur'an). Indeed one of the names of the Qur'an is al-Furqan (the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong, truth and falsehood).
It follows therefore that a Muslim has no reason to reject the essence of any passage in the Bible if such a passage is confirmed by the Qur'an. For example, we read in the New Testament a reiteration of one of the Ten Commandments:
"And Jesus answered him. The first of all commandments is hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29)
A Muslim who reads this passage in the Qur'an can find no objection to its essence. After all the Qur'an confirms:
"Say He is Allah, the One and Only (God)" The Holy Qur'an , Chapter 112 , Verse 1
If, however, a Muslim reads in the Bible (or other previous scriptures for that matter) accusations of major moral sins levied against great prophets or doctrines which are totally negated in the Qur'an, the Muslim accepts only the Qur'anic version as the original unadulterated truth, revealed by Allah (God). Likewise if the Bible (or other scriptures) contains apparent prophecies about the advent of Prophet Muhammad, and if the Qur'an confirms that fact, then there is nothing unusual or objectionable in referring to such prophecies.
The Earlier Revelations

The Qur'an confirms that there were revelations given to different people before the Qur'an. This is sometimes taken to mean that the Muslims believe in the Bible as it exists today. however, the Qur'an nevermentions the word "Bible". It always speaks of what was revealed to earlier Prophets.
"And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter." The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 2 , Verse 4
And not their corrupted versions written by theologians, historians, unknown writers, etc.
The Qur'an speaks of:
TAWRAT: (Revelation to Musa or Moses)
This is not equivalent to the "Torah" (Law) of the present Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy). The latter is attributed to Moses, but it contains information that could not have been written by Moses. For example, Deut. 1:1-5, and Deut. 34:5-7 Moses...died there in the land of Moab..Moses was 120 years old when he died.." It goes on to descibe his burial and the weeping of the people. The reasonable mind would be baffled as to how Moses could have written his own obituary. No wonder Jeremiah 8.8 says "...the false pen of the scribes has turned it (the Law) into a lie."
ZABUR (Revelation to Dawood/David)
This also is not equivalent to the Psalms of David in the Bible. Bible authorities attest that the "Psalms of David" had many authors (New International Version Bible Guide page G13, "Psalms"). Moreover the Psalms contain information which the Muslims at least consider to be blasphemous (e.g. Ps. 78:65 "God behaved like one drunk with wine").
INJIL (Revelation to Isa/Jesus)
The Injil mentioned in the Qur'an refers to what Allah revealed to Prophet Jesus (pbuh). It does not refer to accounts of Jesus' life and teachings as related by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The Qur'an only mentions Injil (gospel), not Anajil (gospels). The whole of the New Testament was written long after Jesus' Ministry therefore it (as a whole) was not revealed to him, nor did he see or sanction it.
This does not mean however, that Islam rejects the Bible completely. The Qur'an confirms basic truths that are still so discernable in the Bible, but not its time-bound legislation or present text. Also the Qur'an not only confirms some parts of what remains of the earlier scriptures but determines what is true in them, while denying what is not true.
And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ. The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 5 , Verse 48.
For example, the preserved basic teaching of the Prophets on the oneness of Allah as evident in Deutronomy 6:4 and Mark 12:29. In addition Allah specifically mentions in The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 21 , Verse 105 that
"Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the message (given to Moses): My servants, the righteous, shall inherit the earth."
This particular statement is found word for word in Psalms 37:29. Those aforementioned examples could constitute what the Qur'an refers to as remnants of the earlier revelations.
Excerpted from Muhammad in The Bible by Dr. Jamal Badawi
 
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ahmadhassan

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[2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Ka`aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."


Why did they build the Kaba? See Exodus 20:4 - 5 I
we dont worship ka`ba ,we just directed to it ,jews directed to jeursalm (our old direction) ,christians direct to sun (they followed pagans)
know You muslims take this verse very serious so what are Kaba so different?
What is the different between the Kaba and the Gold calf Exodus 32:1 - 35
Kaba aren`t a house what I know either
i told you that ka`ba isnt an idol but calf was,it a house (what you say about ka`ba show that you have misunderstanding ,we dont worship ka`ba ,we worship allah (christ prayed to alaha at the mountain )



When I read "Abraham shrine" I feel that is something wrong here.Why? Always in the Bible when peole take the honour to make something but that was God then God discipline see for example Numbers 20:1 -13, 22 - 29
sorry ,i dont get it :confused:
 
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ShyMuslim

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As Brother AhmedHassan said, we do not worship the kabba rather we pray in it's direction as we have been commanded to do.

To me it is a bit comparitive to Chrisitans who kneel before a cross, I hardly think they are worshipping a "graven image" but it could be misconstrued as such. The Kabba is a house....kind of like the Chrisitans call the church a house of worship, hardly idolatry.

~Sarah
 
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Rut

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What is the OP trying to say here it is rather ambiguos, please rephrase.
thank you
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka james the Just


What is it that you don`t understand? I don`t know how I shall rephase it.Sorry
 
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Rut

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As Brother AhmedHassan said, we do not worship the kabba rather we pray in it's direction as we have been commanded to do.

To me it is a bit comparitive to Chrisitans who kneel before a cross, I hardly think they are worshipping a "graven image" but it could be misconstrued as such. The Kabba is a house....kind of like the Chrisitans call the church a house of worship, hardly idolatry.

~Sarah

Not all Christian kneels infront of a cross.I don`t Why? Jeremiah 10:3 - 5

The churches can you go in and hear some that talk about God Can you do that in Kaba?
 
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Rut

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we dont worship ka`ba ,we just directed to it ,jews directed to jeursalm (our old direction) ,christians direct to sun (they followed pagans)

i told you that ka`ba isnt an idol but calf was,it a house (what you say about ka`ba show that you have misunderstanding ,we dont worship ka`ba ,we worship allah (christ prayed to alaha at the mountain )




sorry ,i dont get it :confused:

The christians don`t do this today what I know about.Anyway I don`t

That is why I ask about Kaba.What I say about kaba are what I have understood from the Quran and the Bible when you take them both to read as Quran say you shall.I try only to think little deep

My thoughts are that you worship Kaba.Why? You go around the Kaba 7 times and kiss the Kaba.
 
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Rut

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Quote:
When I read "Abraham shrine" I feel that is something wrong here.Why? Always in the Bible when peole take the honour to make something but that was God then God discipline see for example Numbers 20:1 -13, 22 - 29

Salaam admadhassan,

You said you didn`t understand this.
Here it say that was "Abrahams shrine" not Allah (swt) that have made this.
When Moses said one time that he make a miracle that Israeli get water from a mountain God said to him that he forget to say that the was God that made this miracle because of that moses didn`t came in to the Promise country
 
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ahmadhassan

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Not all Christian kneels infront of a cross.I don`t Why? Jeremiah 10:3 - 5

The churches can you go in and hear some that talk about God Can you do that in Kaba?
yes he can do pray bec ka`ba has haram in which he can pray (edited for my misunderstanding )
ka`ba is the cubic house only not all haram
 
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ahmadhassan

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The christians don`t do this today what I know about.Anyway I don`t

That is why I ask about Kaba.What I say about kaba are what I have understood from the Quran and the Bible when you take them both to read as Quran say you shall.I try only to think little deep

My thoughts are that you worship Kaba.Why? You go around the Kaba 7 times and kiss the Kaba.
we kiss ka`ba ,dont worship it ,the qur`an dont tell us to worship it but to direct to it
2:144. Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad’s صلى الله عليه وسلم) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scripture (i.e. Jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka‘bah at Makkah in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allâh is not unaware of what they do.

145. And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) all the Ayât (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction). And they will not follow each other’s Qiblah (prayer direction). Verily, if you follow their desires after that which you have received of knowledge (from Allâh), then indeed you will be one of the Zâlimûn (polytheists, wrong-doers).

edited for posting something wrong ,ye the ka`ba is the cubic house only and its not for all haram
 
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ahmadhassan

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Quote:
When I read "Abraham shrine" I feel that is something wrong here.Why? Always in the Bible when peole take the honour to make something but that was God then God discipline see for example Numbers 20:1 -13, 22 - 29

Salaam admadhassan,

You said you didn`t understand this.
Here it say that was "Abrahams shrine" not Allah (swt) that have made this.
When Moses said one time that he make a miracle that Israeli get water from a mountain God said to him that he forget to say that the was God that made this miracle because of that moses didn`t came in to the Promise country
building ka`ba was an order from allah (arabic and in aramaic alaha ,means one true god) its not a miracle ,the miracle was the call for hajj and pray
 
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ShyMuslim

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Not all Christian kneels infront of a cross.I don`t Why? Jeremiah 10:3 - 5

The churches can you go in and hear some that talk about God Can you do that in Kaba?

Actually no, the Kaba does not have a place where people go to listen to sermons...sorry if I was unclear, I was trying to make a comparison.

The Kaba is a place where we do Hajj and that is why they make seven circuits around it, as it perscribed.

I've seen people kiss crosses and viles of holy water but I do not think they are worshipping these objects....rather showing respect to them. I know a lot of Chrisitans who desire to visit Jeruselum and walk the the road to Golgatha, they weep and pray because they are so overcome with emotion. This I think is comparible to the Hajj around the Kaba to a Muslim.

Hope this helps a bit.

~Sarah
 
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