Kaba

[Islam_mulia]

Why do Muslims continue to use the OLD TESTAMENT to show it is Muhammad and Muslims.
Everything in Isaiah concerns JESUS and His Salvation for both Israel and the World.

You're joking... aren't you?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You're joking... aren't you?

Are you? Pick and choose, pick and choose, pick and choose..................Left hand or right hand.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/2hands/2hands1.htm

First, let us look at the meaning of these two words, right and left. The word "right" as used with "hand" is generally the Hebrew word "yamiym" meaning STRONGER, MORE DEXTEROUS. The word for "left" is "smowl" meaning DARK. From the meaning of these two words it is very easy to understand that God's right hand is His strength and dexterity, or His wonderful ability to do all things.

The implication is that the right hand of God is the GOOD HAND of God, doing GOOD things. The Psalmist confirms this when he says, "In Your presence is fullness of joy; at Your RIGHT HAND are PLEASURES for evermore" (Ps. 16:11). Again, "The voice of REJOICING and SALVATION in the tabernacles of the righteous: the RIGHT HAND of the Lord does valiantly. The RIGHT HAND of the Lord is exalted" (Ps. 118:15-16).. To which the prophet Isaiah adds his inspired testimony, "Fear not; for I am with you: be not dismayed; for I am your God: I will STRENGTHEN you; yea, I will HELP you; yea, I will UPHOLD you with the RIGHT HAND of My righteousness" (Isa. 41:10).

 

[Rut]

I am sorry, but I do not accept your interpretation. Looking at how important the Tabernacle was to them and such, and seeing how they were crying(weeping) in Psalm 42, I find it improbable that it is
speaking of mecca!

Baca simply means weeping. It is such a general reference, and it could refer to anything for the love of HaShem!

If you wish to accept it as mecca.. Then fine, that's your choice. But I disagree with you. The history of the Korahites and the Tabernacle, and the description of the Tabernacle to the Temple referred to in Psalm 84, are just amazing. And I find it totally improbable for it to refer to mecca.

Also, if it was referring to mecca, then why don't ancient Biblical maps show is at mecca!! I have some ancient biblical maps on my computer, And I will do a screenshot of what my Biblical map of arabia looks like

Salaam Oxy2Hydr0

Another thing too that I suddenly remember.When Abram wanted to worship he went to Salem what we can read from the Bible Genesis 14:17 - 20.
Why have God chance his mind then over Kaba so quick?
Abram was the tenth generation from Noah ( Noah was the tenth in the line from Adam through Seth born 126 years after Adams death) through Shem and was born 352 years after the Deluge.
Abraham was a native of the Chaldean city of Ur a thriving metropolis located in the land of Shinarnear the present junction of the Eupharates and Tigris rivers.It was about 150 miles SE of Nimrod`s onetime royal city of Babylon or Babel Now 170 years later in Abrahams time the city of Ur was still stepped in Babylonish idolatry and the worship of it`s patron moon God Sin Josh 24:14 - 15 Abraham proved to be a man of faith to God Almighty even as his forefathers Shem and Noah.Since true faith is based on accurate knowledge, Abraham apparentlyrecieved his understandingby personal association with Shem (theirs lives overlapped by 150 years)
So you can see that I not understand this about Kaba when you see this information and the time perspective

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Very small because it will not upload to the regular side. That just basically shows arabia, and nowhere does it say "bakkah."

Your map is a Biblical map that mostly shows locations mentioned in the Bible.

Did I reference an Islamic map to seek the location of the Valley of BaKa in or around Palestine or Jerusalem ? No, I didnt, I went to your sources, and it is no where to be found. As far as I can see the name Makkah is not even mentioned cause it is not a Biblical location.

As your lexical authority says "The Valley of Baka" in Psalms 84 is a proper noun which is the name of an actual place ie location, it is not a metaphor of speach.

 

[Abdurrahim]

Originally Posted by Abdurrahim View Post
John 4:21. `Woman, believe me, the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.'

This interesting prophecy of Prophet Jesus pbuh informs us about worshipping direction change in the future.

You have correct there but then are the question what he meant.The people that believed in God that time went to the temple to worship with sacrifice animals etc.if you read little more Jesus explained what he meant

23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

That means for me that we shall have no buildings or place to worship God.We can worship God any places we are in.No places are special "holy" that was the new direction

Try to say that in a church.

This is a clear prophecy about direction change .

And your logic is not right, if it was meant like you have said ,then there was no need for a negative statement about current direction.,

Peace

 

[Rut]

Try to say that in a church.

This is a clear prophecy about direction change .

And your logic is not right, if it was meant like you have said ,then there was no need for a negative statement about current direction.,

Peace

If you meant me then you must explain this more for me because I don`t understand what you mean

As I said I agree with that person that said so but then I look into what Jesus said more after that

 

[Abdurrahim]

You have correct there but then are the question what he meant.The people that believed in God that time went to the temple to worship with sacrifice animals etc.if you read little more Jesus explained what he meant

23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

That means for me that we shall have no buildings or place to worship God.We can worship God any places we are in.No places are special "holy" that was the new direction

If this was meant the right expression would be "not only in here and here ...."

John 4:21. `Woman, believe me, the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.'

Here He talked directly negative about worshipping in these two locations.

If the meaning was "you can worship any in any place " , then why are these two locations excluded ?

peace

 

[français]

Your map is a Biblical map that mostly shows locations mentioned in the Bible.

Did I reference an Islamic map to seek the location of the Valley of BaKa in or around Palestine or Jerusalem ? No, I didnt, I went to your sources, and it is no where to be found. As far as I can see the name Makkah is not even mentioned cause it is not a Biblical location.

As your lexical authority says "The Valley of Baka" in Psalms 84 is a proper noun which is the name of an actual place ie location, it is not a metaphor of speach.

hmm.. and when has mecca been referred to as a "valley?"

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

hmm.. and when has mecca been referred to as a "valley?"

Q 14:37

"O Our Lord! I (Abraham) have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation, by the Sacred house(the Ka'abah): In order, O our Lord that they may establish regular prayer.
So fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits; so that they may give thanks"

Allah accepted his Dua after Hajira had a hard time locating water in the neighbourhood of the safa and the Marwa. Water poured from under the feet of the child Ismail. Hajira tried not to lose the water by making a circle of mud around it. The appearance of the ZamZam began the settlement of the Makkah valley, where the descendants of Ismail populated the area.

http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2005/01/30/fea36.html

His submission and total surrender to the Will of Allah is related to his establishment of Hajj. Even if Ibraheem (A) did not remain in Makkah to the end of his life, he did lay the foundations of the Ka’bah in the middle of Makkah valley as well as the principles of Tawheed, genuine monotheism, in the heart of his son Ismaeel

http://www.imooftoronto.com/articles/EEyyEyykyVAUragseZ.shtml

After Ibraheem left Isma'eel's mother Hajar, by Allah's orders in the barren Makkah valley,................

http://www.shaheedtours.com/hajjrituals.html

Mother Hajera was not just a wife of Ibrahim (a), but she was deeply loved by him. But, once again, to fulfill the wish of Allah, he brought Mother Hajera and their beloved infant son, Ismail, to this abandoned, desolate, barren valley of Makkah. There was no such inhabited place called Makkah at that time.

http://www.jannah.org/hajj/neglectedlegacy.html

Makkah spreads beyond the narrow valley in which it was originally confined. The Holy Mosque, the minarets of which are visible in the distance, is the holiest site in Islam.

http://www.jannah.org/articles/makkah.html

Allah (God) commanded Ibrahim (Abraham) to take Hajar (Hagar) and Isma'il (Ishmael) to a far away place. After a long journey, they arrived at the valley of Makkah in Arabia. That was a very hostile place and the valley was completely barren. The valley of Makkah was on the route of caravans that traveled between Sham (Syria) and Yaman (Yemen), but did not stop there because there was no water or vegetation in that area. No one lived there because the area was inhabitable.

http://www.islam4theworld.com/history/fihr.htm

The city of Makkah is located in a valley with hard, granite mountains on all sides, and the Haram Sharif (Masjid-ul-Haram) located at its lowest point. There is about 50 to 100ft deep sandy silt formation underlain by igneous rocks. The well of Zam Zam is located in this sand/silt formation and its water level is about 40 to 50ft below the natural ground level.​

http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=46

Makkah is located in a valley some 277 meters (909 feet) above sea level, surrounded by the barren, arid hills of the Sirat mountains which range from 375 to 766 meters (1,000 to 2,490 feet) in height. There are four gaps in the mountains which give access to the Holy City of Makkah. The north provides access to Makkah from Mina, Muzdalifah, Arafat and Ta'if. The north west gap provides access from Madinah. The western gap gives access from Jeddah. And the southern gap opens the way into Makkah from Yemen

http://www.hajinformation.com/main/h101.htm

​

 

[français]

Hey, thanks for the nice detailed response! I really appreciate that you took time out of your life to put up with me lol

I still disagree with you, and still think it is talking about the Tabernacle, but I suppose that you won't change your mind, and neither I, so oh well! lol

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If this was meant the right expression would be "not only in here and here ...."

John 4:21. `Woman, believe me, the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.'

Here He talked directly negative about worshipping in these two locations.

If the meaning was "you can worship any in any place " , then why are these two locations excluded ?

peace

Would that be symbolical of Mt Sinai?

Deuteronomy 5:23 `And it cometh to pass as ye hear the voice out of the midst of the darkness, and of the Mountain burning with fire, that ye come near unto me, all the heads of your tribes, and your elders,

Revelation 8:8 And the second messenger did sound, and as it were a great Mountain with fire burning was cast into the sea, and the third of the sea became blood,

 

[peaceful soul]

If this was meant the right expression would be "not only in here and here ...."

John 4:21. `Woman, believe me, the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.'

Here He talked directly negative about worshipping in these two locations.

If the meaning was "you can worship any in any place " , then why are these two locations excluded ?

peace

Worship will no longer be bounded to physical locations and physical objects. It will be through spiritual means apart from the physical. There will be no need to worship in a temple. So, the present location of worship will no longer be the focal point of one’s worship. This does not mean that a building used to worship is no longer meaningful, but it intrinsically will have no determination in how God receives worship. Your true worship of God wil not be bounded by anything other than between you and God through His Spirit, the Spirit of Truth--Holy Spirit. Your body becomes the new temple, and the prayer direction becomes irrelevant.