k1 chart - open for discussion

[Douggg]

Anyway, in 1948 the secular state of Israel was born, yes, in one day, as any other state. Every state has the first day of existence.

The bible does not use the term "state" as being a country. The term "state" in the bible, kjv, 14 instances, refers to the condition of a person(s). i.e. for example "state of mind", "state of financial condition".

Isaiah 66:
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

 

[trophy33]

The bible does not use the term "state" as being a country. The term "state" in the bible, kjv, 14 instances, refers to the condition of a person(s). i.e. for example "state of mind", "state of financial condition".

Isaiah 66:
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Sure, I agree that Bible says nothing about 1948.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, this one I understand and agree that they got it wrong. I meant I do not understand the rest of your post about Israel.

What I am saying in regards to the k1 chart in the opening post - that chart is based on keras's view (not mine) that the current nation of Israel being deceimated by a solar flare event - depopulating Israel, and destroying infra structure.

In the emptied country, kera's view is that Christians from around the world will move to the land, now known as the nation of Israel. And that the new Christian pioneers will build a new nation called "Beulah", a Christian country, and not a Jewish country. And that Beulah is the nation involved in all the end times prophecies going forward - like the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

My point is that Beulah, in Isaiah 62:4, the one place in the bible where "Beulah" is found is not a name change of the nation of Israel - to a new created nation named "Beulah".

"Beulah" is not found in bible prophecy.

There will be no nation "Beulah". The nation over there will continue as "Israel". And there will be no solar flare event changing the landscape of the middle east as keras is saying.

 

[Douggg]

Sure, I agree that Bible says nothing about 1948.

May 14, 1948, Israel is the nation born in a single day, fulfilling Isaiah 66:7-8.

 

[trophy33]

What I am saying in regards to the k1 chart in the opening post - that chart is based on keras's view that the current nation of Israel being deceimated by a solar flare event - depopulating Israel, and destroying infra structure.

In the emptied country, kera's view is that Christians from around the world will move to the land, now known as the nation of Israel. And that the new Christian pioneers will build a new nation called "Beulah", a Christian country, and not a Jewish country. And that Beulah is the nation involved in all the end times prophecies going forward - like the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

My point is that Beulah, in Isaiah 62:4, the one place in the bible where "Beulah" is found is not a name change of the nation of Israel - to a new created nation named "Beulah".

"Beulah" is not found in bible prophecy.

There will be no nation "Beulah". The nation over there will continue as "Israel". And there will be no solar flare event changing the landscape of the middle east as keras is saying.

OK, I do not care too much, for me all the standard futurist predictions are just one huge complicated mix of speculations. Some people even make a living from that. Like Sci-fi authors.

 

[trophy33]

May 14, 1948, Israel is the nation born in a single day, fulfilling Isaiah 66:7-8.

In 1948, the secular state of Israel was established. Its a different thing from a nation being born.

For example, 1.1. 1993 - The Czech republic was established. But the nation existed long time ago, from early centuries. Under the name Czechoslovakia or under the Austrian empire or under the Holy Roman Empire etc back to the past.

 

[keras]

Where-else does it say in Revelation that the beast has made war on anyone - other than the two witnesses,

Revelation 13:7 It [the 'beast'] was allowed to wage war on God's people and to defeat them.
Paralleled by Daniel 7:25, where God's people are in his power for a time, times and half a time.

that the world celebrates their deaths?

As the worlds people follow after the 'beast', they will of course, be happy for him.
But the 2W's are different; they are murdered.

The Jews are occupying the land of Israel, the nation of Israel, ever since May 14, 1948 a nation born in a day, fulfilling Isaiah 66:7-8.

Not for much longer according to the Prophets. Jeremiah 10:18 and 20 other prophesies that tell of the virtual demise of the Jews.

The Zionist State was promulgated on the 18th May 1948, but it took 50 years from conception to birth.
Isaiah 66:7-9 does not apply to them.

The rest of your posts are just reiterations of false theories and fables that are unsupported by scriptural and known facts.
I like to point out errors and untruths to those who most often; have been taught false theories. but when someone just keeps on parroting their wrong ideas. it gets very tiresome.

We know from the historical record and their own admissions, that most of the citizens of the Jewish State of Israel, are not actual descendants of Judah. They virtually all reject Jesus.
So the idea that God is going to redeem them, so unjudged and untested Christians can skive off to heaven, is a total crock and can never happen.
There is simply no scripture that supports such sci-fi rubbish.

There will be no nation "Beulah". The nation over there will continue as "Israel".

Isaiah 62:4....you will be named Hephzibah, [My delight is in her] and the Land Beulah. [Married]
People are called by other peoples; by the name of their land and vice-versa.

Anyway your gross assertion holds no weight, its purely another wrong opinion.

 

[keras]

OK, I do not care too much, for me all the standard futurist predictions are just one huge complicated mix of speculations. Some people even make a living from that. Like Sci-fi authors.

Why don't you try to find out why the Prophetic Word is so difficult for you? And for most Christians.
You understand the Gospel of Salvation and know the Commandments.
Isaiah 29:9-12 does tell us why; because people have chosen to believe false theories and fables.
Clear your mind of any teachings that are not supported by scripture and the morning star will arise to illuminate your mind. 2 Peter 1:19

 

[trophy33]

Why don't you try to find out why the Prophetic Word is so difficult for you? And for most Christians.
You understand the Gospel of Salvation and know the Commandments.
Isaiah 29:9-12 does tell us why; because people have chosen to believe false theories and fables.
Clear your mind of any teachings that are not supported by scripture and the morning star will arise to illuminate your mind. 2 Peter 1:19

I think you misunderstood.

I meant that I do not care too much what you are writing about these prophecies, because, to me, the futuristic explanations and teachings are just wild personal speculations. Two people can create two totally different teachings based on the same prophecy.

The more prophecies involved, the differences in explanations grow exponentially.

 

[Douggg]

The rest of your posts are just reiterations of false theories and fables that are unsupported by scriptural and known facts.
I like to point out errors and untruths to those who most often; have been taught false theories. but when someone just keeps on parroting their wrong ideas. it gets very tiresome.

You are not acknowledging that the Gog/Magog event in Ezekiel 38-39 is about the nation of Israel over there comprised of Jews having come out of the nations to the land of Israel.

 

[keras]

You are not acknowledging that the Gog/Magog event in Ezekiel 38-39 is about the nation of Israel over there comprised of Jews having come out of the nations to the land of Israel.

No; because it isn't the Jewish nation who are there when Gog attacks.
The Jews are not living undefended and trusting in the Lord for their protection. They have the Samson Option and their powerful IDF. All of which will not save them from the fiery wrath of the Lord. Isaiah 22:1-14, Isaiah 6:11-13, Isaiah 4:4
The peoples in the holy Land during the end times, will be Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26, +
However the Lord does promise that we will speak a new language, Zephaniah 3:6

 

[Douggg]

No; because it isn't the Jewish nation who are there when Gog attacks.

The text in Ezekiel 38-39 does not say "Beulah".

 

[eclipsenow]

May 14, 1948, Israel is the nation born in a single day, fulfilling Isaiah 66:7-8.

Or maybe that was Cyrus? Cause they also got to build a temple. Then Jesus spiritually fulfills it all and here we are. But the 1948 Jews never got to build a temple and Jesus warned them of the AoD which happened in AD70 and basically any temple built now would be a blasphemy

 

[Douggg]

Cause they also got to build a temple.

That's true.

 

[keras]

The text in Ezekiel 38-39 does not say "Beulah".

Ezekiel 38:1-13 does not say Jews or Israel either. It says they are a people, 3 times.
Ezekiel 38:14-16 says: My people Israel. But all the previous descriptions do not relate to the current inhabitants of the holy Land.
They will be the Israelites of God, His faithful Christian peoples; gathered out of the nations and settled into all of the holy Land, which has been recently restored from ruin. Ezekiel 38:8

God sends His fiery wrath against Judah. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 6:11-12
God will protect His own people, the faithful Christians. Ezekiel 34:11-31

 

[Douggg]

Ezekiel 38:1-13 does not say Jews or Israel either. It says they are a people, 3 times.
Ezekiel 38:14-16 says: My people Israel. But all the previous descriptions do not relate to the current inhabitants of the holy Land.
They will be the Israelites of God, His faithful Christian peoples; gathered out of the nations and settled into all of the holy Land, which has been recently restored from ruin. Ezekiel 38:8

God sends His fiery wrath against Judah. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 6:11-12
God will protect His own people, the faithful Christians. Ezekiel 34:11-31

keras, where in the bible are Christians instructed by God to move to the land of Israel ?

The land of Israel cannot absorb the number of Christians around the world.

 

[DavidPT]

Ezekiel 38:1-13 does not say Jews or Israel either. It says they are a people, 3 times.
Ezekiel 38:14-16 says: My people Israel. But all the previous descriptions do not relate to the current inhabitants of the holy Land.
They will be the Israelites of God, His faithful Christian peoples; gathered out of the nations and settled into all of the holy Land, which has been recently restored from ruin. Ezekiel 38:8

God sends His fiery wrath against Judah. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 6:11-12
God will protect His own people, the faithful Christians. Ezekiel 34:11-31

Since you insist saved Christians are meant rather than unbelieving Jews who are currently dwelling there, let's insert saved Christians into some of the following text in order to see it is making sense of the text or nonsense of the text.

Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people, the saved Christians; and I will not let the saved Christians pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the saved Christians went into captivity for their iniquity: because the saved Christians trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from the saved Christians, and gave the saved Christians into the hand of their enemies: so fell the saved Christians all by the sword.
24 According to the saved Christians uncleanness and according to the saved Christians transgressions have I done unto the saved Christians, and hid my face from the saved Christians.

Ezekiel 39:26 After that the saved Christians have borne their shame, and all the saved Christians trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when the saved Christians dwelt safely in their land, and none made the saved Christians afraid.
27 When I have brought the saved Christians again from the people, and gathered the saved Christians out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall the saved Christians know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered the saved Christians unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from the saved Christians: for I have poured out my spirit upon the the saved Christians, saith the Lord GOD.


Explain how any of that is making any sense out of the text. Of course you won't explain that because you can't explain how something nonsensical is actually sensible instead.

If we instead have the text meaning who it is meaning, not who it is not meaning, all of this nonsense goes away. The text actually makes sense.

 

[eclipsenow]

I meant that I do not care too much what you are writing about these prophecies, because, to me, the futuristic explanations and teachings are just wild personal speculations. Two people can create two totally different teachings based on the same prophecy.

Exactly. What he said!

The more prophecies involved, the differences in explanations grow exponentially.

Especially when Revelation doesn't provide enough detail about the actual nations involved in their futurist 'timetables', so they go hunting for whatever sounds similar in the Old Testament and overlay that for that extra geopolitical flair. I mean, why let the OT prophets tell us who their audience was and what their concerns were back in their day? Israel and her enemies? Pah! Here comes futurist 487,354 with their third attempt at a future timetable. (The first two already expired.) It's time to play "Pin the OT prophecy on the donkey" and rip their message out of their ancient geopolitical context and FORCE their words into a modern story. Then you can pretty much have a go at whoever you don't like in the Middle East or world news today. Beautiful!

 

[keras]

keras, where in the bible are Christians instructed by God to move to the land of Israel ?

Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the Land and will live there forever.

Isaiah 66:18b-19 I am going to gather people of every tongue, they will come to see My glory. I shall put a sign on them and some of these survivors I will send out to the nations, to proclaim My Gospel among them. They will go to distant places that have not heard of My glory.
Irrefutable proof that this happens before the Return, as then: every eye shall see Him. Revelation 1:7
These people are only the believers in Jesus, Jew and Gentiles.

The Lord’s people, all faithful Christians, are gathered from all parts of the earth. 12,000 are selected from each of the 12 assigned groups and sent out to proclaim the good news of the coming Kingdom of God. Revelation 7:3-8 & 14:1-7, Isaiah 49:6.

Isaiah 66:20-21 From every nation, your people will be brought, on every kind of conveyance, coming as an offering to the Lord on His holy mountain. They will come to Jerusalem, just as the ancient Israelites brought their grain offerings. The Lord will select some of them to be His priests. Psalms 107:1-43, Rev 5:10

Soon after the Lord’s Day of vengeance, all the Lord’s people, will be motivated to emigrate to the holy Land. Ezekiel 36:10-12, Ezekiel 39:25-29, Isaiah35:1-10, Jeremiah 30:10-14. They will live there in great prosperity and peace for several years, until the Anti-Christ comes to power. He will break his 7 year treaty of peace with Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, and take control of the country, sitting in the Temple. This will start the 3½ year Tribulation period. The faithful Christians will be taken to a place of safety during this time. Zechariah 14:2b, Revelation 12:14.

Then Jesus Christ will Return in His glory, to reign for 1000 years.

The land of Israel cannot absorb the number of Christians around the world.

The holy Land is all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Genesis 15:18
I refer to the faithful Christians. Many who say they are Christian' are not.

 

[keras]

Explain how any of that is making any sense out of the text.

What you fail to take note of, is the fact that God separated the original nation of Israel into 2 groups; the House of Israel, the 10 Northern tribes and the House of Judah. Only Judah is a visible entity today.
Israel remains scattered around the world. They have not yet rejoined: Ezekiel 37 remains unfulfilled. Jesus came to save the House of Israel, He was successful and we Christians are the result.

So the word Israel, used in the scriptures that you posted, refers the the Christian Israelites of God. The Overcomers for God; His actual people who have accepted the Salvation of Jesus and who keep the Commandments.
Thinking that God's Promises belong exclusively to the Jews, makes a mockery of the teachings of the new Testament.

What you also miss, is the many Prophesies that say the apostate and Jesus rejecting Jews, will be Judged and punished and only a remnant will survive.
So the word 'Israel', used in the Prophesies you quoted, cannot apply to the people who call their nation Israel. If anything their nation should be called Judah. As David ben Gurion did want to call it.

An Israelite simply means an overcomer for God. Isn't that what you and I are?