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Just when I was starting to like Christianity...

dvd_holc

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LyricalX said:
hmm...

So did have I been lied to about the millions taken to America? and the other millions that were just chucked overboard

or the millions that died due to Europeans instigating wars between them

Don't get me started, it will just get the thread deleted
What is this in response to?
 
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dvd_holc

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LyricalX said:
hmm...

So did have I been lied to about the millions taken to America? and the other millions that were just chucked overboard

or the millions that died due to Europeans instigating wars between them

Don't get me started, it will just get the thread deleted
I believe the commit was directed for the knowledge that slavery was happening before Europe made a better machine of Africa's market, if you will...Slavery did not start nor did it end in Europe.
 
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dvd_holc

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LyricalX said:
I know that

But the European slavery of Africa has had the biggest impact than any other slavery

We're still CLEARLY seeing the effects today, and our Governments refuse to help
there many things we wished the governments could do...slavery is one....We that have votes need to voice our opinions to determine the way governments will function. I am not going to stay silent and let them do whatever.
 
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Rolf Ernst

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LyricalX said:
I know that

But the European slavery of Africa has had the biggest impact than any other slavery

We're still CLEARLY seeing the effects today, and our Governments refuse to help
Poor Lyrical! Still living in the past. Still so enslaverd that he can't enjoy his freedom. What is freedom if you are obsessed with being enslaved? And his obsession with being enslaved is from his own mind.
 
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Sabra

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LyricalX:

What you have to understand is that this book was written just shortly after the Israelites came out of hundreds of years of slavery and thus, they were used of being ordered around to do this and to do that, and not to do this and not to do that. The whole book of Leviticus is basically what God expects of His people, whom He brought out of slavery. If I could have, I would recommend that you skip that particular book as it doesn't have an overly large significance on Christians.

Also, if you read other parts of that same passage, you would see that God said: "If a fellow Israelite living near you becomes so poor that he sells himself to you as a slave, you shall not make him do the work of a slave. He shall stay with you as a hired man and serve you until the next Year of Restoration." Why? No man can serve two masters. God justifies this with: "The people of Israel are the LORD's slaves, and He brought them out of Egypt; they must not be sold into slavery."

So, what if you need people to work for you but can't afford to hire Israelites, then God said that, "You may buy them from the nations around you." But, God makes provisions to ensure that they are treated well, in Leviticus 19:18 - for example - we read: "Do not take revenge on anyone or continue to hate him, but love your neighbour as you love yourself." And in Leviticus 19:33-34 God commands the Israelties: "Do not mistreat foreigners who are living in your land. Treat them as you would a fellow Israelite, and love them as you love yourselves."

I view that slaves are apart of the foreigners in the land and come under that definition and they are to be treated well. This was also a command for the Israelite people.

You must also consider the commands that Paul gave Christian slave owners at that time, for example, in Colossians 3:22-4:1 in which Paul says:

"Slaves, obey your humans masters in all things, not only when they are watching you because you want to gain their approval; but do it with a sincere heart because of your reverence for the LORD. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as though you were working for the LORD and not for men. Remember that the LORD will give you as a reward what He has kept for His people. For Christ is the real Master you serve. And every wrongdoer will be repaid for the wrong things he does, because God judges everyone by the same standard. Masters, be fair and just in the way you treat your slaves. Remember that you too have a Master in heaven."

He also reiterates this idea in Ephesians 6:5-9.

You see, in Paul's day, slavery was a common occurance and an every day thing. Thus, like with other things (e.g. the roles of women), the early Christians worked within the framework of society rather than radically changing it to fit with a Christian world view in which all men and women are equal, because doing so would have made it extremely difficult for the Apostles and the early Church to preach and spread the Gospel - probably because people would have been scared away by their radial teachings and the focus would have been turned away from Christ.

You'll notice as you read the letters written by Paul that he brings Christian morality and ethics into these situations (e.g. slavery) that are considered common and right in his day. It is my conviction that those so-called "Christians" who were enslaving the people of Africa were being inconsistent with their faith.

I hope this helped you a little. If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask. :)
 
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Rolf Ernst

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Men are wicked enough so they will slant the truth to fit their wishes. Maybe that is the reason we are talking about slavery when we should be addressing the murder of infants in their mother's womb. 1.5 million deaths should be enough to awaken the conscience of the American population. Slavery is not practiced in America today. CORRECTION: slavery IS being practiced in America today. It is just not primarily the slavery of black people. Then there is still slavery being practiced in Africa. We have many issues to be concerned about without obsessing over ancient history. If there were any true interest in the crime of slavery, people would be attacking it where it now exists.
 
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Sketcher

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LyricalX said:
It was 'white Christians' that had started the whole thing! So don't try that one with me! Slavery in America was abolished because of the civil more, they meant more soldiers. Not everything is Black and White.
White Christians did not start slavery. Slavery existed in Africa before Europe discovered it, as some Africans enslaved other Africans, and some Arabs also enslaved Africans. White Christians led the abolition of slavery in Europe in the 11th century, and stamped it back out in the 19th century when it raised its ugly head again. The great abolitionists during the era of slavery were Christians, I hope you can accept these historical facts.

Also, slavery in America violated the Biblical rights of slaves. Paul said it flat out:

"And masters, treat your slaves in the same way[treat them as you would treat Christ]. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him." - Ephesians 6:9

"Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven." - Colossians 4:1
 
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Phospho

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LyricalX said:
I read this



Try and defend that one

No wonder so many Christian nations enslaved the people of Africa



Hey LyricalX...how's it going?

I am curious to know what version of the bible you are reading...there is only one (1) time in the OT where the word "slave" is utilized, and that is Jeremiah 2.14.

The version you are reading is grossly mistreating the original text. The word they are misinterpreting as "slave" is "saw-keer" meaning a hired servant...like a butler, it means "a man hired at wages by either day or year" more acurately, it means a "hireling"...not a slave.

And just because a nation may be considered "christian" does not mean that christians were partaking of the sinful lifestyles others in that nation were.

Blessings!
 
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Harlan Norris

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LyricalX said:
I read this



Try and defend that one

No wonder so many Christian nations enslaved the people of Africa
Ok, in the first place.We are Christians,not Jews.The commandments of Jesus Christ are.Love the lord thy God with all you heart and all your strength,and love your neighbor as yourself.Now, does it sound like there is any way that one could keep slaves and follow these commandments?Gods reasons for allowing slaves in the old testament,were I think to teach the other nation the worship of the one true God.However it was the Jews that were converted in many cases.Don't worry they didn't get away with it.Whenever Christians have a failier of faith or charicter,they often point to the old testament and say,it's God ordained.Read the new testament.Jesus is our example,and his Gospel is our instruction manual.It is not easy to be a Christian that actually does their best to follow the example of Christ.However,I'm absolutely shure it's worth it.By the way, isn't it the followers of Islam that are still buying and selling Africans?Slavery isn't just a physical condition,it's a state of mind.One can be completely free and still consider onesself to be inslaved.One can gain their freedom through Jesus Christ.I know because I have.:thumbsup:
 
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Victory of the Cross

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LyricalX said:
Where does it say in the Bible

'Forget all that, do this now'

Why bother having the Old Testament?

The New Testament is What the Christians Follow.
The Old Testament has vast Knowledge to be had within its pages, and shouldn't be dismissed.
 
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SolomonVII

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No Bible believing Christian will defend slavery anymore.
All civilized people have come to abhor slavery, and Christian men and women were in the forefront of making this happen.

And more than a few would be continuing the attack against the 'wage slavery' that we have today, and the 'white slavery' of the sex trade, and the continuing smaller slave trade carried on by the Arabs in North Africa.



But just what was it that you were beginning to like about Christianity?
 
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