I think this is solid advice. You are getting married, so why not wait..it will be more special on your honeymoon.
Why would this be solid advice? It implies "work" for salvation. "Better safe than sorry" is not a faith based thinking, it's a works based thinking. "If I'm wrong, I might go to hell." Really? Is that what Christ bought for us on the cross. The following of rules to earn our way to heaven? Some people really need to free themselves from the mind state of Judaism. We are not Jews. We are saved by faith. If you follow your heart and are proven wrong on Judgement day, you are STILL forgiven. We will be judged by our hearts, not on our level of knowledge and understanding of the bible.
Premarital Sex = Fornication.
Fornication = Sex Before Marriage.
We still have to remember that we all should obey God's commandments rather we like it or not. I have to learn to like it, so I hope he continues to like it too. He should get married, but if he doesn't feel that he should do a ceremony, than whatever, but he still needs a paper showing that he is legally married. A small wedding can be an option for him.
Yes but salvation requires a repeantant heart as well. That is how I understand it. That doesnt mean that we wont sin and no one is without sin..it just means we are moving in that direction. Now I dont know if having sex before marriage is a sin or not...I dont see it in the bible..that is what I was argueing. It still may be a sin so for the OP that is having a hard time decideing...why not just wait and not have it on his conscience? I for one dont think it is necessary to have the legal documents of a marriage to be married in god's eye...but if that person feels they do than let them live by it.
Google Translate
If you put the word πορνεία the greek version of porneia of the word the direct translation is prostitution.
Porneia is not identical to sex before marriage. It means illicit sex. The root meaning is actually prostitution, but in normal Jewish usage it is more general. It may include premarital sex, but it's not defined as premarital sex.
Repentence devoid of love, is not true repentance. Trying to be good enough, is not repentance. It's working to earn ones salvation. When the Spirit comes into your life, He brings love not law. That love, through the heart, will guide you into all righteousness and truth. Love does not lead to sin. Which is why love, is the fulfillment of the law. I do however agree, that if you believe it is a sin in your heart, then it is. Why would you violate that which is in your heart. But question, is it your heart that says so, or your mind through earthly ideology.
Good morning btw!
Yes but there has to be effort on our part...
I think like you say the holy spirit does it works. I have changed quite radically since I have come to know jesus..I have had some failings for sure, I just see the world different now.
The whole idea is to change the way we think and where the intent of our heart is. That is how I interpret it.
You make good points and I find the readings in Romans to validate that...I just feel that we have to make an effort. Obviosuly the law has impossible standards, but those standards have to be high because it is perfection to god...I dont think it necessarily because we have to...it is because we want to. I think that is a sign that repeantance has taken place.
ok yes but how do you explain Romans 6? Where is says that even though we are under grace we shouldnt live freely in sin.
Our what you are saying if I live in full faith with no effort on my part, that jesus will guide me away from sin?
I mean it sounds good and maybe something I will understand more in time...I have only been 'saved' or have had any understanding of god or Jesus since Feburary of this year. I know he mentions how he always ends up doing the things he hates and doesnt do things he wants and grace has saved him from that...but yet his heart is in the place of not wanting to those things and only the 'sin' inside of him that is causing it.
So I'm engaged. Me and my Fiance have been engaged for about 4 months now. Let me start this thread off with the understanding for the readers that we have NOT had sex, nor have we fondled/sexually touched each other. We are both pure in this relationship.
But therein lies my question and curiosity. See, I'm the type of a man (as we all should be) that has read the Bible for myself. I study it. I ponder it. I have it written in my heart, as the Lord hath commanded. But nowhere do I see in the Bible where it says that sex is WRONG for two people who have committed themselves to each other under God.
The best example I have is Baptism. We know from the Word that baptism is an outward expression of an inward change that has already occurred. That means, it's just an example.
How is a wedding ceremony any different? Have the two people already not committed themselves to God and to each other? You don't just go through a relationship, and a courtship, AND an engagement STILL unsure about your commitments to each other. That's absurd.
I mean, you don't just step up to the plate of marriage and the pedestal and THEN decide, "You know what? Yeah. I think I'll commit." No sir, you've already done that. No one makes that choice as they say I do. You've already made it.
Now, seeing as how sexual intercourse is a sign of unity and oneness between God and us, why is the wedding ceremony that which makes this official..in God's eyes?
Nowhere in the Bible does it say a wedding CEREMONY makes two people married. It's a commitment that the two people have already made.
The more I think about it, the more it seems like it's just a man made tradition to keep adultery and fornication in check. If I'm wrong, please, provide scripture that proves my ignorance. I want to hear it.
Because when I committed myself to my fiance, it was between her, I, and God. Why, Biblically, is that not good enough? Where in the Bible is that not good enough for God?
Exactly. With marriage you make a commitment and agree that the community or government can (at least partially) hold you to your word.
If you can walk away at any time, there's no real commitment.
Commitment isn't something you FEEL, it's something you DO.
I'm so glad you asked. I was just getting ready to add this for clarity.
When someone says, "I am free from the law" but then still continues to not operate in love of one another, that is to play God for a fool. Your heart is still wicked and does not have the love of the Spirit. We are free from the law because we love one another as ourselves, not because we are free to just do whatever we want to anyone.
That is exactly what I'm saying because love does not lead to sin. Love by nature, travels the opposite path of destruction. Our effort is simply in how we treat one another. Being Christ-like, not being religious "Christians" tied to rules and regulations.
I admit that I am better at explaining it, than I am at doing it in my life and is only within the last few years or so that I finally walked out from under the yoke of the law. It was scary for me because of the lifetime of fear that was injected from the organized religion, that I was indoctrinated with. Fear is not of God. And when I realized that rejecting religious ideology was not the same as rejecting God, Christ or the bible, I was free to read the bible through the lens of love and not through the lens of judgement and condemnation.
Oh how beautiful the words become on that day. To see that the bible is not a law book. It is a guide to lead us to love of one another. That's why Christ said, "All the laws and the Prophets hang on these two commands." We by default fulfill the law, when we simply love. God will do the rest and God is not a liar. Put fear under your feet and KNOW that the victory over sin and death, has already been won. Thus you don't need to fight a battle that Christ already won. To fight that battle, is to pull Christ off the cross and pretend it never happened.
Who cares? Why go around and categorize people? Why not just love them encourage them and motivate them?
I guess if you were going to admonish them you might want to know who's unmarried so you could offer that godly instruction. But admonishment really needs to start with "love your neighbor" be good to your friends, make time for the people in your life, stand up against error, get to the root of what truth is etc. etc. etc. not do this ceremony, be at church every week, don't question the pastor, and just be the goody two shoes sterotypical christian. anyone can do that. some just don't want to. and others like me see the error for what it is and will never be that out of principle.
But really you will know who's really married and who's not. Watch how they treat each other. Note the respect, the willingness to make time for the other person, the ability to compromise. The skills that show they have or will be able to keep a long term relationship. These are the married people.
Over and over, when the Bible speaks of a couple coming together as a married pair, "betrothal," or "espousal," or "giving in marriage" is mentioned. It is this giving of a woman to a man in marriage by the parents that is the one thing in the biblical record that has consistently marked out marriage from mere fornicating and/or shacking up. You will not find a single place in all of the Bible where it is ever suggested that mere sexual activity, however committed, formally unites a couple in marriage. Always there is a betrothal that marks out a married couple from a couple that is just fornicating. This giving in marriage is not some cultural peculiarity that one is free to ignore; it is the procedure demonstrated by God in Eden by which a couple is formally wedded one to the other. You don't need a marriage license, or flowers, or a wedding dress, or even a priest, but, if you intend to be obedient to the example of Scripture, you absolutely do need to be formally espoused to your husband or wife before sexual relations between you occur.
Selah.
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