Just how Biblical is the whole "no sex until after the wedding ceremony" thing?
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seeingeyes
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I think he was arguing about whether certain sex is, in fact, 'pre-marital'.
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The op never even hinted he was looking for a loophole! It's funny how most people here don't even bother to read someone's posting history before they make a decision about what might be the appropriate response. Obviously from reading the ops history it can be learned he's not the type to try and find loopholes.
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M
MaxxOmega
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Whoa whoa, you are reading an awful lot into those few words I said. It's just an old saying that's all, besides that wasn't the jist of my advice. My advice said "Don't do it". This is in no way a works based "salvation", I'm just telling him not to screw around....
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Yeah okay. With respect: Then that means you don't care if the op agrees with your opinion of him. Wouldn't that sorta cancel out the need to give your opinion? Just saying.
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Eyesee
It's all about Jesus
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Zeener.... PLEASE. This has nothing to do with my *opinion* of the OP! Aside from that, don't other people read these posts? What if my motive was to write something that helped those people as well? Regardless, it sounds like I offended people (or rather that people were offended on behalf of the OP); that was not my intention, so please forgive me. I really don't want to get drawn into an argument here. The overriding message behind my post was to be careful of being drawn into our reasoning vs. what I view as the clearly expressed will of God concerning premarital sex and marriage. It is a trap and I was trying to encourage the OP NOT to fall into that trap.
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KimberlyAA
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God is clearly against fornication. The word fornication comes from three separate words in the Bible, two from the Hebrew and one from the Greek. These words all share similar connotations. Each can mean literal fornication between two unmarried persons in a marriage contract; however, it can also signify adultery, whoredom, or an act of unfaithfulness on the part of Yahwehs people.
The first place the word fornication is used in the Old Testament is found in II Chronicles 21:81. The word fornication found in this passage is from the Hebrew, No. 2181, Zanah, and is defined by Strongs Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible as follows: "to commit adultery; To commit idolatry "
One thing that might be noted is that the Strongs only offers a broad definition and not an exact definition. Therefore, to completely understand the usage of a particular word in the Hebrew or Greek, one must examine the context of the passage in question.
Many times you may find a more detailed definition in a word study or a lexicon. While, these sources often prove to be valuable in the understanding of many Hebrew and Greek words, a person also must acknowledge the fact that these were written by man and can be inaccurate in some instances.
For example, The Complete Word Study Old Testament offers a more decisive definition than found in Strongs. It notes on page 2312 in its Lexical Aid, "To fornicate, commit fornication, be a harlot, play the harlot, commit adultery; to apostatize, have intercourse with false gods or foreigners; to seduce. The main idea is to commit illicit sexual intercourse, particularly with women. However, this strong image is used in a figurative sense to describe illegal contact between Israel and other nations and their gods "
The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication, the second being adultery and the third being idolatry.
The second word denoting fornication in the English is found only once in the Hebrew, in Ezekiel 16:29. The word fornication in this passage is from the Hebrew, No. 8457, taznuth, and simply means a type of idolatry. Being that this word is only used once, the quest for an exact definition should not be too exhausting.
The third word signifying fornication is found in the Greek and is first used in Matthew 5:32. This word derives from the Greek word, No. 4202, porneia and is defined in the Strongs as follows, "from 4203; harlotry; Idolatry: - fornication."
Again, we only find a broad definition for this Greek word, "porneia." Porneia is used 32 times in the New Testament and conveys many different definitions.
For example, the word fornication in Matthew 5:32 is often taken to denote an act of adultery, however an in-depth study will prove this understanding false, and confirm the real usage of this Greek word "porneia" in this particular passage, which is fornication, pre-marital sex.
In the fifth chapter of 1 Corinthians Paul admonishes the Corinthian assembly to remove the sin that they were allowing in the assembly. One of the sins listed by the Apostle was a gentile committing "fornication" with his fathers wife. Now this is not what we consider fornication, but more accurately this signifies incest with his stepmother.
Trying to pinpoint this word without examining the passage in question is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Fornication in either the Hebrew or Greek can have and denote a wide range of definitions. It can mean literal fornication, adultery, harlotry, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or any other sexual restriction that Yahweh has placed for mankind to observe.
The first place the word fornication is used in the Old Testament is found in II Chronicles 21:81. The word fornication found in this passage is from the Hebrew, No. 2181, Zanah, and is defined by Strongs Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible as follows: "to commit adultery; To commit idolatry "
One thing that might be noted is that the Strongs only offers a broad definition and not an exact definition. Therefore, to completely understand the usage of a particular word in the Hebrew or Greek, one must examine the context of the passage in question.
Many times you may find a more detailed definition in a word study or a lexicon. While, these sources often prove to be valuable in the understanding of many Hebrew and Greek words, a person also must acknowledge the fact that these were written by man and can be inaccurate in some instances.
For example, The Complete Word Study Old Testament offers a more decisive definition than found in Strongs. It notes on page 2312 in its Lexical Aid, "To fornicate, commit fornication, be a harlot, play the harlot, commit adultery; to apostatize, have intercourse with false gods or foreigners; to seduce. The main idea is to commit illicit sexual intercourse, particularly with women. However, this strong image is used in a figurative sense to describe illegal contact between Israel and other nations and their gods "
The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication, the second being adultery and the third being idolatry.
The second word denoting fornication in the English is found only once in the Hebrew, in Ezekiel 16:29. The word fornication in this passage is from the Hebrew, No. 8457, taznuth, and simply means a type of idolatry. Being that this word is only used once, the quest for an exact definition should not be too exhausting.
The third word signifying fornication is found in the Greek and is first used in Matthew 5:32. This word derives from the Greek word, No. 4202, porneia and is defined in the Strongs as follows, "from 4203; harlotry; Idolatry: - fornication."
Again, we only find a broad definition for this Greek word, "porneia." Porneia is used 32 times in the New Testament and conveys many different definitions.
For example, the word fornication in Matthew 5:32 is often taken to denote an act of adultery, however an in-depth study will prove this understanding false, and confirm the real usage of this Greek word "porneia" in this particular passage, which is fornication, pre-marital sex.
In the fifth chapter of 1 Corinthians Paul admonishes the Corinthian assembly to remove the sin that they were allowing in the assembly. One of the sins listed by the Apostle was a gentile committing "fornication" with his fathers wife. Now this is not what we consider fornication, but more accurately this signifies incest with his stepmother.
Trying to pinpoint this word without examining the passage in question is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Fornication in either the Hebrew or Greek can have and denote a wide range of definitions. It can mean literal fornication, adultery, harlotry, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or any other sexual restriction that Yahweh has placed for mankind to observe.
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Yes, if you wouldn't mind, I think it may be best to start a new thread. You've asked a lot of good questions. If you do start a new thread, please PM me and I'll be more than happy to join your conversation.
@brohammer26: You're welcome my friend. Anytime, my door is open. Feel free to PM, we could even swap email for discussions on anything if you'd like, which also goes for anyone reading this. I love to have such discussion because it teaches me and makes me better at walking in love by sharing my understanding. Thank YOU for the great conversation. Having such talk about love, early in the AM, made my whole day so much better and more focused on what is really important.
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ObeyGODCommandments
STICK WITH A BIBLE! FOLLOW CHRIST! STOP SINNING!
Any sexual sins that a person commits before marriage is considered fornication/sexual immorality.
If a person who is not legally married commits an act of bestiality, prostitution, rape, orgy,...etc... is a fornicator according to God's law.
And, If a person who was married (i.e., divorce) or is legally married commits an act of bestiality, prostitution, rape, orgy,...etc... outside of marriage is considered an adulterer.
How is that hard to understand people?
Like come on. It's not hard to read or to comprehend the bible. Just read the book carefully in its entirety and fully trust in the gospel. If you can't trust what's in it, than you must questioned your faith you guys.
Have I posted here a list of sexual sins already? Do I have to re-post them up here again for you people to keep? Well, maybe I should re-post them again.
Leviticus 18
Unlawful Sexual Relations
Deuteronomy 22
Marriage Violations
Deuteronomy 23:17-18
Miscellaneous Laws
CROSS REFERENCE: Leviticus 19:29
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers (Galatians 6:7-10).
Marriages are of God. If it wasn't instituted by God, than God would not have to mentioned the importance of marriage many times in the bible for people to keep.
And if marriages was just man-made or traditions of man, God would have made that statement known/quite clear in the bible like he does with most of the topics that are mentioned/addressed in the bible that God finds evil/wicked/an abomination.
Times has changed since Adam and Eve. Because sin was brought into the world due to Adam and Eve's rebellion, God had to bring forth the law that brings curses/plagues/death so that those who disobeys him will be punished/will perish. It was for their own good as well as everyone else on this earth (which is to teach them/us a lesson). Why do you think God brought Jesus into the world? To save those who believes in him and in the gospel. We all live in a time now where we must follow what is ordained/instituted by God to us which is mentioned in verse Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17. If there was no law, no authorities, no governor, no ruler, or no king, than the world will be completely untamed. Not every law that is ordain on this earth is from God. Now days, the law allows homosexuals to get married, but before, it was restricted. Why Is that? Because we are now living in the last hour/in the last days according to the bible. Jesus and Paul stated in the bible that lawlessness will increase in the last days according to Matthew 24:12 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.
If we don't do things the way God has attended for us to do things, than we will be sinning against God. So the best thing for the OP to do is to follow what is right which is to get married and do whatever he has to do in order to become legally married. It's better to get married than to burn in passionate lust. And it's better to get married than to wound up in the lake of fire in the end.
But! If he decides not to get married, the best thing for him to do is to remain single. Because time is so short, it is best that people do not get married according to verse 1 Corinthians 7:27-35 which says:
"Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.
I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord" (1 Corinthians 7:27-35).
==========================================================================================
Verse Matthew 5:17-48 makes it clear to us that murdering your brother; committing adultery; getting into a divorce; breaking oaths; not loving your enemies is not an act of love, but an act of hate, and this is breaking the two greatest commandments that sums up the entire law that is written in the book of the law according to verse Galatians 5:14-15, which says, "The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other."
The law of Moses is referred to love, because love covers over a multitude of sins which is mentioned in 1 Peter 4:8/1 Peter.
We must seek the things of the spirit and not the things of the flesh.
Life by the Spirit:
Galatians 5:16-26 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
==========================================================================================
MY QUOTE: Do what is right, and do not follow the inclinations of our evil hearts. The best of advice you can give to someone is through the bible.
Romans 3:4 says, "Let God be true, and every man a liar."
And Proverbs 3:5 says, "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding."
The Holy Bible is the truth. Obey it's commands because it will save your life!
If a person who is not legally married commits an act of bestiality, prostitution, rape, orgy,...etc... is a fornicator according to God's law.
And, If a person who was married (i.e., divorce) or is legally married commits an act of bestiality, prostitution, rape, orgy,...etc... outside of marriage is considered an adulterer.
How is that hard to understand people?
Like come on. It's not hard to read or to comprehend the bible. Just read the book carefully in its entirety and fully trust in the gospel. If you can't trust what's in it, than you must questioned your faith you guys.
Have I posted here a list of sexual sins already? Do I have to re-post them up here again for you people to keep? Well, maybe I should re-post them again.
Leviticus 18
Unlawful Sexual Relations
Deuteronomy 22
Marriage Violations
Deuteronomy 23:17-18
Miscellaneous Laws
CROSS REFERENCE: Leviticus 19:29
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers (Galatians 6:7-10).
Marriages are of God. If it wasn't instituted by God, than God would not have to mentioned the importance of marriage many times in the bible for people to keep.
And if marriages was just man-made or traditions of man, God would have made that statement known/quite clear in the bible like he does with most of the topics that are mentioned/addressed in the bible that God finds evil/wicked/an abomination.
Times has changed since Adam and Eve. Because sin was brought into the world due to Adam and Eve's rebellion, God had to bring forth the law that brings curses/plagues/death so that those who disobeys him will be punished/will perish. It was for their own good as well as everyone else on this earth (which is to teach them/us a lesson). Why do you think God brought Jesus into the world? To save those who believes in him and in the gospel. We all live in a time now where we must follow what is ordained/instituted by God to us which is mentioned in verse Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17. If there was no law, no authorities, no governor, no ruler, or no king, than the world will be completely untamed. Not every law that is ordain on this earth is from God. Now days, the law allows homosexuals to get married, but before, it was restricted. Why Is that? Because we are now living in the last hour/in the last days according to the bible. Jesus and Paul stated in the bible that lawlessness will increase in the last days according to Matthew 24:12 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.
If we don't do things the way God has attended for us to do things, than we will be sinning against God. So the best thing for the OP to do is to follow what is right which is to get married and do whatever he has to do in order to become legally married. It's better to get married than to burn in passionate lust. And it's better to get married than to wound up in the lake of fire in the end.
But! If he decides not to get married, the best thing for him to do is to remain single. Because time is so short, it is best that people do not get married according to verse 1 Corinthians 7:27-35 which says:
"Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.
I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord" (1 Corinthians 7:27-35).
==========================================================================================
Verse Matthew 5:17-48 makes it clear to us that murdering your brother; committing adultery; getting into a divorce; breaking oaths; not loving your enemies is not an act of love, but an act of hate, and this is breaking the two greatest commandments that sums up the entire law that is written in the book of the law according to verse Galatians 5:14-15, which says, "The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other."
The law of Moses is referred to love, because love covers over a multitude of sins which is mentioned in 1 Peter 4:8/1 Peter.
We must seek the things of the spirit and not the things of the flesh.
Life by the Spirit:
Galatians 5:16-26 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
==========================================================================================
MY QUOTE: Do what is right, and do not follow the inclinations of our evil hearts. The best of advice you can give to someone is through the bible.
Romans 3:4 says, "Let God be true, and every man a liar."
And Proverbs 3:5 says, "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding."
The Holy Bible is the truth. Obey it's commands because it will save your life!
Last edited:
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seeingeyes
Newbie
So it is your contention that two people must be married in the eyes of the state in order to be married in the eyes of God, but that not everyone who is married in the eyes of the state is married in the eyes of God?
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ObeyGODCommandments
STICK WITH A BIBLE! FOLLOW CHRIST! STOP SINNING!
No, is what the bible says. I follow what the bible says, not my own evil heart.
A person cannot claim themselves to be married without proof that they are actually married.
And a person who is not married should not have sex because that will be fornicating against God's will like duh. It's common sense.
Sexual sins/Sexual immorality is a no no! Get it?
You can't have your bread and have blood too.
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ObeyGODCommandments
STICK WITH A BIBLE! FOLLOW CHRIST! STOP SINNING!
Read the verses that I've posted on Marriage. If you can't bother to read it or bother to obey it, than you shouldn't be wasting your time with this.
I can't make you believe in the gospel. It's up to you to follow it or not, but if you choose to make the wrong chooses in life, you will have to deal with the consequences of your actions.
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seeingeyes
Newbie
You posted a lot of verses, but none of them talk about the 'proof' you claim the Bible requires for marriage. So I don't know what you mean.
Are you talking about a marriage certificate? Those didn't exist. (In fact, the only certificate mentioned is one of divorce.)
Are you talking about a ceremony that is officiated over by a priest or government official? That is not in the Bible either.
Are you talking about a dowry? An exchange of goats? Jewelry? What is the validating 'proof' of marriage that you are talking about?
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