Just how Biblical is the whole "no sex until after the wedding ceremony" thing?

[Leonfrost]

Yes, the bible says to obey the laws of the land, but does that nullify the union of souls and make illegal two people who want to consumate their relationship prior to a ceremony? I just don't see the biblical evidence that it's wrong.

No, it does NOT nullify those unions. In fact, some would argue that the law of the land, as per the uprising cultural norm, is for people to have sex if they're committed to one another!

Chris, you've got this figured out, right? It seems like it's pretty clear to you

 

[Peripatetic]

Please understand all I am looking for is absolute Biblical truth.

My belief is that Biblical truth is absolute, but the complexities, applications, and nuances do not usually allow for absolute answers without knowing the heart, the circumstances, and how the Holy Spirit convicts an individual. Others view scripture in a more linear way.

In following your posts in the past, it seems that you have a fairly conservative, literal view of scripture. At least that's how it appears when you advise others. So I would ask this: how would you have advised someone asking the same question if you didn't have a fiance or girlfriend? My caution would be against confirmation bias. That is, looking for flexibility in scripture to fit a personal desire, but withholding that same flexibility when considering others' situations.

I cannot answer your question without knowing your heart, the circumstances, and how they Holy Spirit convicts you or your fiance. But if the Holy Spirit is moving your heart to broader, more nuanced interpretations, I hope you will explore it in your Bible study and in other circumstances. If you are convicted to stay true to a stricter set of guidelines, then your question is already answered.

 

[BFine]

The oldest marriage consisted of a man, woman and God
united them together and then came the use of the word
wife--- then the word husband later appeared. Refer to Genesis
for this.

Other biblical type Marriage customs -- a man, a woman, the presence of family/friends/God
-- and the man declares publicly he will take care of the woman and she
would become his wife. The couple may include some type of "vows" or pledges at
that time before their "witnesses."
There's a wedding celebration and the couple goes to their
chamber for the "one flesh" thingy--consummating the "marriage."

*It is also known that the bride's parents would show the "proof" of their
daughter's virginity -- to the "witnesses" when the fleshly union is completed.
This was to protect the daughter from false accusations or any gossip that
she wasn't a virgin etc....

 

[mathetes123]

Paper and rings do NOT make an abiding relationship. Actions and committment do. In the first place, I don't see the OP discounting marriage. He clearly said he is having an official ceremony. I really don't get why this discussion cannot simply REMAIN in the context the OP intended.

Right. Paper and rings and ceremonies hardly gaurante fidelity. In fact, they don't. What does are the hard decisions people make daily; what makes a marriage is dying to self, every day. A lot of believers have rings and papers and weddings and mantles full of photos of that special, precious day, but they're not even married anymore SAVE FOR THE PAPER, which is all they have left.

No where in the bible does God say that a marriage is "God ordained" only IF you have a ceremony.

Marriage is all well and good and I would never fight against it, but it in and of itself, does NOT God ordain anything. No where does scripture say that.

The institution of marriage is God ordained. There are several examples of a ceremony in the Bible. Jesus first miracle was performed at a wedding ceremony.

 

[mathetes123]

Please understand all I am looking for is absolute Biblical truth.

See, that's the problem with modern day Christianity. So many people have these "rules" and "regulations" that are imposed based on tradition and oral tradition, and that's wrong. Purely wrong. Yet it has seeped into every single denomination. I am interested in the Bible, not tradition. I'm interested in God's opinion, not mans opinion.

You have been shown numerous verses from the Bible and have not accepted them. I'm not so sure you aren't just looking for confirmation of the position you have already taken on the issue. You will be better off to wait until you are married. True love waits.

 

[znr]

The institution of marriage is God ordained. There are several examples of a ceremony. Jesus first miracle was performed at a wedding ceremony.

I'm going to have to do the whole agree to disagree thing because while it's very true Jesus did a miracle at a wedding ceremony, that fact is totally immaterial to whether or not premarital sex between two people who honor the Lord (Chris' concern) is scripturally forbidden.

I think we will need to agree to disagree on a lot of stuff.

 

[znr]

No, it does NOT nullify those unions. In fact, some would argue that the law of the land, as per the uprising cultural norm, is for people to have sex if they're committed to one another!

Chris, you've got this figured out, right? It seems like it's pretty clear to you

I think something along these lines too.


There has to be a more appropriate answer than obey the laws of the land. So then each culture has different requirements? That seems, I don't know, confusing and overly complicated. HiLo said it best somewhere in here. Also liked Girder of Loins thoughts.

 

[ObeyGODCommandments]

It doesn't matter if it doesn't say that. If you have read the whole bible, you will understand Godly teachings. Not many will have faith in it due to unbelief.

If a person chooses to have a marriage ceremony or chooses not to have a marriage ceremony; in the end of it all, they still will need to receive a marriage certificate proving that they are husband and wife. The bible is quite frank about this matter. If they not legally married and they happen to commit fornication, than they are sinning against God, but they will not be sinning against the governors, the authorities, etc...

Did I not show to you verse Hebrews 13:4? Did you read it or did you just overlooked it?

IT IS STATED:
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Tell me. How does a person get into an divorce? By writing a certificate of divorce according to Mark 10:2-12 and Deuteronomy 24:1-5. Does God accepts anyone getting into an divorce in this day and age? No.
So if someone who is legally married files for a divorce, and decides to get remarried again, that person will become an adulterer. How is that hard for you to understand?

There is also a another chapter that I have previously shown to the OP where it speaks about marriage in general which I'm referring to 1 Corinthians 7, but for some odd reason, the OP is trying to fight against it which makes no sense since the main topic of his thread is about marriage in general. His post is called "Just how Biblical is the whole "no sex until after the wedding ceremony" thing? Like duh! Plus he's agreeing to an non-religious person's statement which he stated that sex before marriage is not wrong. So this should tell me and others on here that he wants us to believe that sex before marriage is right. I have a feeling that the OP is only here to cause debates and quarrels about words which the bible/Paul warns us not to indulge in. It's mentioned in verse 2 Timothy 2:14-19 and Titus 3:9-11.

I understand that the OP only wants to focus on the topic about "WEDDING CEREMONY," but the truth of the matter is, is that no one actually has the answer to his question. The only person that has that answer is God which I told him to ask God. The OP pretty much answered his own question anyways because he stated to all of us on here that the word WEDDING CEREMONY is not in the bible. Okay, I understand that the word is not in the bible, but the word does say that people should get married if they can not control themselves which is stated in verse 1 Corinthians 7:1-2.

Also, in verse 1 Corinthians 7:7-9, Paul said:
"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion" (1 Corinthians 7:7-9).

So what do you not understand? The OP already addressed that he knows the law and that he is familiar with the verses that I've given him about sexual sins, but yet, he still not satisfied with the answer. So what is it that he really wants us to tell him? I believe he wants us to tell him that he should go right ahead and not get married because the word marriage/wedding ceremonially is not in the bible. I find that kind of statement dangerous for a person to say to another because others will read it and think that they should go right ahead and get themselves a partner to not marry due to the fact that the bible does not address the word wedding ceremonial in it. Once a person is convince of this, they will plan to sin/fornicate against God's will. Also they will end up thinking to themselves that weddings and marriages is not of God. Well, weddings and marriages is of God. God wants people to get married if they choose to. Read verse 1 Timothy 4:1-3 which addresses about this.

1 TIMOTHY 4:1-3 SAYS:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth" (1 Timothy 4:1-3).

To clarify, I meant that nowhere in scripture does it state that having a ceremony (that which is according to the laws of the land) is what ordains a marriage. I didn't say that God does not ordain, just that the ceremony in and of itself is not what makes a marriage (a union of two to be one flesh) holy and sacred. I guess I fail to read carefully enough.

It's sorta ironic, I guess...for lack of a better term comes to mind, that there are no laws in America as of yet, which is where Chris is, that forbid fornication. His original question was is sex before "marriage" sinful IF the two people have committed in the eyes of God. The nuance is found in the BEFORE marriage. His question is, where does the bible lay those specifics out. I, along with Chris, cannot find those specifics. Pointing out bit and chunks of scripture isn't going to convince me. That's to say, I am not convinced that the bible says that two people who intend on marrying are committing fornication by consumating their union prior to a ceremony. Could I be wrong? of course. I just don't see where God forbids premarital sex between two people who have committed their union to God. Is it a good idea? I don't know. I just don't see it in the bible being forbidden.

 

[ObeyGODCommandments]

It doesn't matter if it doesn't say that. If you have read the whole bible, you will understand Godly teachings. Not many will have faith in it due to unbelief.

If a person chooses to have a marriage ceremony or chooses not to have a marriage ceremony; in the end of it all, they still will need to receive a marriage certificate proving that they are husband and wife. The bible is quite frank about this matter. If they not legally married and they happen to commit fornication, than they are sinning against God, but they will not be sinning against the governors, the authorities, etc...

Did I not show to you verse Hebrews 13:4? Did you read it or did you just overlooked it?

IT IS STATED:
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Tell me. How does a person get into an divorce? By writing a certificate of divorce according to Mark 10:2-12 and Deuteronomy 24:1-5. Does God accepts anyone getting into an divorce in this day and age? No.
So if someone who is legally married files for a divorce, and decides to get remarried again, that person will become an adulterer. How is that hard for you to understand?

There is also a another chapter that I have previously shown to the OP where it speaks about marriage in general which I'm referring to 1 Corinthians 7, but for some odd reason, the OP is trying to fight against it which makes no sense since the main topic of his thread is about marriage in general. His post is called "Just how Biblical is the whole "no sex until after the wedding ceremony" thing? Like duh! Plus he's agreeing to an non-religious person's statement which he stated that sex before marriage is not wrong. So this should tell me and others on here that he wants us to believe that sex before marriage is right. I have a feeling that the OP is only here to cause debates and quarrels about words which the bible/Paul warns us not to indulge in. It's mentioned in verse 2 Timothy 2:14-19 and Titus 3:9-11.

I understand that the OP only wants to focus on the topic about "WEDDING CEREMONY," but the truth of the matter is, is that no one actually has the answer to his question. The only person that has that answer is God which I told him to ask God. The OP pretty much answered his own question anyways because he stated to all of us on here that the word WEDDING CEREMONY is not in the bible. Okay, I understand that the word is not in the bible, but the word does say that people should get married if they can not control themselves which is stated in verse 1 Corinthians 7:1-2.

Also, in verse 1 Corinthians 7:7-9, Paul said:
"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion" (1 Corinthians 7:7-9).

So what do you not understand? The OP already addressed that he knows the law and that he is familiar with the verses that I've given him about sexual sins, but yet, he still not satisfied with the answer. So what is it that he really wants us to tell him? I believe he wants us to tell him that he should go right ahead and not get married because the word marriage/wedding ceremonially is not in the bible. I find that kind of statement dangerous for a person to say to another because others will read it and think that they should go right ahead and get themselves a partner to not marry due to the fact that the bible does not address the word wedding ceremonial in it. Once a person is convince of this, they will plan to sin/fornicate against God's will. Also they will end up thinking to themselves that weddings and marriages is not of God. Well, weddings and marriages is of God. God wants people to get married if they choose to. Read verse 1 Timothy 4:1-3 which addresses about this.

1 TIMOTHY 4:1-3 SAYS:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth" (1 Timothy 4:1-3).

To clarify, I meant that nowhere in scripture does it state that having a ceremony (that which is according to the laws of the land) is what ordains a marriage. I didn't say that God does not ordain, just that the ceremony in and of itself is not what makes a marriage (a union of two to be one flesh) holy and sacred. I guess I fail to read carefully enough.

It's sorta ironic, I guess...for lack of a better term comes to mind, that there are no laws in America as of yet, which is where Chris is, that forbid fornication. His original question was is sex before "marriage" sinful IF the two people have committed in the eyes of God. The nuance is found in the BEFORE marriage. His question is, where does the bible lay those specifics out. I, along with Chris, cannot find those specifics. Pointing out bit and chunks of scripture isn't going to convince me. That's to say, I am not convinced that the bible says that two people who intend on marrying are committing fornication by consumating their union prior to a ceremony. Could I be wrong? of course. I just don't see where God forbids premarital sex between two people who have committed their union to God. Is it a good idea? I don't know. I just don't see it in the bible being forbidden.

 

[znr]

You know, I don't care to argue. I think what I think. I didn't overlook the Hebrews passage, in fact I wondered what it was doing there quoted in with my post. So I didn't overlook it at all. It just didn't provide an answer or make sense to me lumped in with what I had written. You said "VERY IMPORTANT" but to be honest, I didn't get it.

This is not a concession, but I really don't need to be right on this; the truth is, I'm just so happy for Chris that he found "the one". To know Chris is to understand him. He is not what some are saying about him.

Several times you have asked me things like "How is that hard for you to understand?" Not sure your tone is friendly, but I could be wrong. You tell me. But I think maybe you need to be right. So be right.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't say that. If you have read the whole bible, you will understand Godly teachings. Not many will have faith in it due to unbelief.

It doesn't matter if someone chooses to not have a marriage ceremony or chooses to not have a marriage ceremony; in the end of it all, they still will need to receive a marriage certificate proving that they are husband and wife. The bible is quite frank about this matter. If they not legally married and they happen to commit fornication, than they are sinning against God, but they will not be sinning against the governors, the authorities, etc...

Did I not show to you verse Hebrews 13:4? Did you read it or did you just overlooked it?

IT IS STATED:
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Tell me. How does a person get into an divorce? By writing a certificate of divorce according to Mark 10:2-12 and Deuteronomy 24:1-5. Does God accepts anyone getting into an divorce in this day and age? No.
So if someone who is legally married files for a divorce, and decides to get remarried again, that person will become an adulterer. How is that hard for you to understand?

There is also a another chapter that I have previously shown to the OP where it speaks about marriage in general which I'm referring to 1 Corinthians 7, but for some odd reason, the OP is trying to fight against it which makes no sense since the main topic of his thread is about marriage in general. His post is called "Just how Biblical is the whole "no sex until after the wedding ceremony" thing? Like duh! Plus he's agreeing to an non-religious person's statement which he stated that sex before marriage is not wrong. I have a feeling that the OP is only here to cause debates and quarrels about words which the bible/Paul warns us not to indulge in which is mentioned in verse 2 Timothy 2:14-19 and Titus 3:9-11.

I understand that the OP only wants to focus on the topic about "WEDDING CEREMONY," but the truth of the matter is, is that no one actually has the answer to his question because he stated to all of us on here that the word WEDDING CEREMONY is not in the bible. Okay, I understand that the word is not in the bible, but the word does say that people should get married if they can not control themselves which is stated in verse 1 Corinthians 7:1-2.

Also, in verse 1 Corinthians Paul said:
"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion" (1 Corinthians 7:7-9).

So what do you not understand? The OP already addressed that he knows the law and that he is familiar with the verses that I've given him about sexual sins, but yet, he still not satisfied with the answer. So what is it that he really wants us to tell him? I believe he wants us to tell him that he should go right ahead and not get married because the word marriage ceremonially is not in the bible. I find that kind of statement dangerous for a person to say to another because others will read it and think that they should go right ahead and get themselves a partner to not marry due to the fact that the bible does not address the word wedding ceremonial in it. So the consequence is, they are going to think that marriages is not of God. Well getting married is what God wants us to do if they can not control themselves. Read verse Timothy 4:1-3 which talks about it.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

But I have to ask, why would you worry that God would tell you that you've committed sin for 50 years, when the fact is, we are sinners to begin with.

Well the difference, in my mind at least is when we sin, we pray to God for forgiveness and move on. Now if God doesn't recognize a marriage then you would be sinning and not asking for forgiveness. Which I am always told not asking for forgiveness means you live in sin more despite the fact God tells you to try and no to.

Grant I always end up saying in the end you still go to heaven, however you lose more treasures for still sinning despite being told not to.

 

[znr]

Do we lose treasure for "sinning"...or do we lose them for not carrying out God's requests. Do I lose a treasure because I have a potty mouth, or do I really gain treasures for wiping the vomit from a drunks mouth and giving them a hot cup of coffee?

I have a feeling you have lost no treasures.

Well the difference, in my mind at least is when we sin, we pray to God for forgiveness and move on. Now if God doesn't recognize a marriage then you would be sinning and not asking for forgiveness. Which I am always told not asking for forgiveness means you live in sin more despite the fact God tells you to try and no to.

Grant I always end up saying in the end you still go to heaven, however you lose more treasures for still sinning despite being told not to.

 

[ObeyGODCommandments]

Well I am trying to prove a point to you that he should just accept what we are trying to tell him even if the word is not in the bible. We still have to remember that we all should obey God's commandments rather we like it or not. I have to learn to like it, so I hope he continues to like it too. He should get married, but if he doesn't feel that he should do a ceremony, than whatever, but he still needs a paper showing that he is legally married. A small wedding can be an option for him.

Thanks for understanding.

You know, I don't care to argue. I think what I think. I didn't overlook the Hebrews passage, in fact I wondered what it was doing there quoted in with my post. So I didn't overlook it at all. It just didn't provide an answer or make sense to me lumped in with what I had written. You said "VERY IMPORTANT" but to be honest, I didn't get it.

This is not a concession, but I really don't need to be right on this; the truth is, I'm just so happy for Chris that he found "the one". To know Chris is to understand him. He is not what some are saying about him.

Several times you have asked me things like "How is that hard for you to understand?" Not sure your tone is friendly, but I could be wrong. You tell me. But I think maybe you need to be right. So be right.

 

[Girder of Loins]

I will love it when this thing gets taken out for debating. We should probably take this elsewhere lest it get removed.

 

[Leonfrost]

Well I am trying to prove a point to you that he should just accept what we are trying to tell him even if the word is not in the bible. We still have to remember that we all should obey God's commandments rather we like it or not. I have to learn to like it, so I hope he continues to like it too. He should get married, but if he doesn't feel that he should do a ceremony, than whatever, but he still needs a paper showing that he is legally married. A small wedding can be an option for him.

Thanks for understanding.

I'd just like to point out that we AGREE that we all have to follow God's commandments. What you seem to be not seeing is that it is uncertain whether no premarital sex IS one of God's commandments or not. Does that make sense? It feels like you're trying to win an argument that no one else is participating in, you know?

 

[ObeyGODCommandments]

I'd just like to point out that we AGREE that we all have to follow God's commandments. What you seem to be not seeing is that it is uncertain whether no premarital sex IS one of God's commandments or not. Does that make sense? It feels like you're trying to win an argument that no one else is participating in, you know?

It's good that you agree. But there is one thing that I would like clarify to you about premarital sex.... "PREMARTITAL SEX IS NO WHERE MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE." I randomly add that in my post to address the types of sexual sins that are out there according to what I believe. I can see that you took what I said and use it to your advantage to come against the meaning of fornication. By the way, the word fornication is mentioned in the bible and yes, it is a sin.

 

[blankCrossfire]

I'm going to have to do the whole agree to disagree thing because while it's very true Jesus did a miracle at a wedding ceremony, that fact is totally immaterial to whether or not premarital sex between two people who honor the Lord (Chris' concern) is scripturally forbidden.

I think we will need to agree to disagree on a lot of stuff.

If you honor the Lord you will not commit fornication, a sin that God not only commands us to stay away from, but to flee from completely. To say that you can honor the Lord while having pre-marital sex is an oxymoron.

Premarital Sex = Fornication.
Fornication = Sex Before Marriage.

 

[tbogunro]

So I'm engaged. Me and my Fiance have been engaged for about 4 months now. Let me start this thread off with the understanding for the readers that we have NOT had sex, nor have we fondled/sexually touched each other. We are both pure in this relationship.

But therein lies my question and curiosity. See, I'm the type of a man (as we all should be) that has read the Bible for myself. I study it. I ponder it. I have it written in my heart, as the Lord hath commanded. But nowhere do I see in the Bible where it says that sex is WRONG for two people who have committed themselves to each other under God.

The best example I have is Baptism. We know from the Word that baptism is an outward expression of an inward change that has already occurred. That means, it's just an example.

How is a wedding ceremony any different? Have the two people already not committed themselves to God and to each other? You don't just go through a relationship, and a courtship, AND an engagement STILL unsure about your commitments to each other. That's absurd.

I mean, you don't just step up to the plate of marriage and the pedestal and THEN decide, "You know what? Yeah. I think I'll commit." No sir, you've already done that. No one makes that choice as they say I do. You've already made it.

Now, seeing as how sexual intercourse is a sign of unity and oneness between God and us, why is the wedding ceremony that which makes this official..in God's eyes?

Nowhere in the Bible does it say a wedding CEREMONY makes two people married. It's a commitment that the two people have already made.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like it's just a man made tradition to keep adultery and fornication in check. If I'm wrong, please, provide scripture that proves my ignorance. I want to hear it.

Because when I committed myself to my fiance, it was between her, I, and God. Why, Biblically, is that not good enough? Where in the Bible is that not good enough for God?

The ceremony of marriage is man made. In fact in God's eyes if she is the one God has for you then your already joined together in SPIRIT! The reason for marriage is to stay clear away from sexual immorality and the ceremony aspect is just to confess before people and God the joining of you two in the NATURAL

1 Corinthians 7:2 NLT

"But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband."

 

[znr]

If you honor the Lord you will not commit fornication, a sin that God not only commands us to stay away from, but to flee from completely. To say that you can honor the Lord while having pre-marital sex is an oxymoron.

Premarital Sex = Fornication.
Fornication = Sex Before Marriage.

You're right. I'm wrong.

Now I'm going to go pick my nose.

Excuse me all.

 

[Radagast]

Have the two people already not committed themselves to God and to each other?

A serious commitment is a public commitment.