Just curious, how many of you identify as feminists?

[Tolworth John]

Christian" by itself is a meaningless label. The only thing I can know when someone says they are "Christian" is that they belong to some wide and diverse religion known as "Christianity". And there is no real agreement as to what living "like a Christian" even looks like, but here in the Egalitarian forum, women being kept at home and shrouded "modestly" from head to toe and popping out babies for her salvation and for the glory of God isn't it.

Take away Christianity and can you from philosophy or any other set of ideas justify your beliefs about equality and the roles of men and women?

 

[bekkilyn]

Take away Christianity and can you from philosophy or any other set of ideas justify your beliefs about equality and the roles of men and women?

Which form of Christianity are we taking away? Do not mistake the religion and institution of of Christianity in its myriad forms, many of which have been extraordinarily harmful to women, with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Gregorikos]

It is Christianity that supports equality, no other philosophical idea does.
It is Christianity that places value on both men and women yet also assigned separate roles to them.

Take away Christianity and can you from philosophy or any other set of ideas justify your beliefs about equality and the roles of men and women?

Every post you've made in this thread mentions both equality and something you call "roles" of men and women. Replies to you pointing out the inherent discrepancy between these so-called "roles" and equality have gone unanswered.

Why don't you tell us about these "roles" to which you refer?

 

[KitKat1230]

Retired mechanical engineer here. Back in the dark ages, yes, women were few and far between in STEM fields. However, I would encourage those of you who don't think women should be in STEM fields to watch the movie or read the book Hidden Figures. Rooms full of FEMALE mathematicians, and African-American to boot!
Physically I currently couldn't hold a candle to a man's strength...but that's not a measure of equality. I'm short, middle-aged, on the fluffy side. When it came to being the breadwinner...yup, that was me. Did it matter? Not one whit! That's an ego/pride thing. I had a true partnership with my late husband.
I think that many people are not willing to study what feminism is and isn't. They go by the rubbish they hear somewhere else and come to erroneous conclusions.
To the young lady who was reading "The Transformed Wife" blog...stay away from Lori Alexander as much as possible. She is a liar and a hypocrite. I can document it all between her old blog "Always Learning" and her current one. She fawns over the MRA types. Feel free to PM me for the evidence.

I've seen Hidden Figures, it's such a great movie. And I'm so glad that more women are going into STEM.

As for Lori Alexander, I will do that. I looked up other stuff she said and people pointing out how hypocritical and problematic she is, and so I am not interested in taking advice from her.

 

[Tolworth John]

Which form of Christianity are we taking away? Do not mistake the religion and institution of of Christianity in its myriad forms, many of which have been extraordinarily harmful to women, with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I refer primarily to what the Bible teaches about the roles of men and women.
That the role of a man is to provide for and lead his family through the advice and support of his wife.
No where does the Bible teach that women if inferior to men, but that they are equal.

 

[Tolworth John]

Every post you've made in this thread mentions both equality and something you call "roles" of men and women. Replies to you pointing out the inherent discrepancy between these so-called "roles" and equality have gone unanswered.

Why don't you tell us about these "roles" to which you refer?

I reply to every post hat is a reply or quote of any I make, so as I haven't replied to other posts that weren't quoting mine your accusation is unfounded.

As for roles the Bible teaches the traditional role of men as provided and leader and women as child rearers and supporters of the man.

That does not make her inferior, nor does it make him superior.

 

[Gregorikos]

As for roles the Bible teaches the traditional role of men as provided and leader and women as child rearers and supporters of the man.

That does not make her inferior, nor does it make him superior.

Well to argue that is to violate the rules of this forum, and that would mean your previous posts where you alluded to such "roles" are in violation of the rules. I suggest you stop doing that in this forum.

And your statement is contradictory. If men are assigned to be leaders and women must follow and support their leadership, how is that equal? It's not.

What if I said all UK counties are equal but only Yorkshire gets to choose the Prime Minister? I'm sure you'd admit that isn't equal at all.

 

[dzheremi]

I am in what is probably in many places a female-dominated field (Linguistics), though many of the most well-known linguists are men. Still, for every William Labov there is a Robin Lakoff, and I had just as many female advisors while still a student as male advisors, so I owe my learning to women just as much as men. So it is with most things in life, at least where I live.

The thing I don't like about feminism is the same as what I don't like about most things: it's far too easy to get sold on a 'package deal' without realizing everything you're signing up for. If I'm for the equality of men and women in general, does that mean I should be obliged to see the evil hand of 'the Patriarchy' working in everything? What about things that I think are fine as they are, like the Church hierarchy in Orthodoxy? I'm not about to start messing with that or advocating that others do so because feminism. Too often I find that people who are quick to pull out the 'There is no male or female in Christ' as a way of highlighting the God-sanctioned equality of the sexes do not put Christ similarly above their favorite -ism, like feminism or egalitarianism, or whatever. (And same too for those who are believers in conservatism, libertarianism, etc.; this just isn't their particular forum.)

So while I'm personally not very comfortable with the label of feminist for myself, I'm probably more in line with it on many (not all) individual issues that feminists are often arguing for, like fighting sex-based discrimination in employment and elsewhere, supporting and protecting women who are attempting to leave domestic violence situations, fixing the abysmal state of childcare in the United States, etc. These are all worthy goals, regardless of how anyone labels them.

That's what I'd focus on, OP: what are your goals, rather than whether or not some particular label or other fits those goals. But that's just me.

 

[Junia]

Hello, I'm somewhat new to ChristianForums, mostly in that I haven't posted much until recently. I've been viewing this forum frequently in the past few months because I'm a Christian egalitarian. But I've been wondering about whether or not I should go back to identifying as a feminist as well as an egalitarian.

I grew up in a fairly conservative family with mostly egalitarian, (e.g. women can speak their minds, women can go into whatever careers they want, college and work is good for women, mothers can work inside or outside the home, whichever one they think will be best for them) but a little complementarian as well (e.g. churches shouldn't have female pastors, the husband is the de-facto leader of the household, even though the husband and wife are mostly equal in decision-making).

I thought like this when I was younger, then when I was a teenager, I got into third-wave feminism in the early 2010s. But when I was 17-18 years old, I started becoming more conservative again, though I still considered myself a feminist. Then, I started getting into the anti-SJW movement and GamerGate and I started to feel like feminism was being hijacked by secular liberalism, Tumblr, and the Social Justice movement, so I started distancing myself from the feminist movement. I also wanted to support men's issues like the suicide and homelessness rates, divorce and custody inequality, and double standards against men. However, during an episode of scrupulosity OCD at 22 years old, I encountered The Transformed Wife's blog and had a big OCD episode where I was fearing that I possibly wasn't being a good Christian woman because I was going to be a grad student and I wanted have both a career and husband, but no children. Then I started browsing more and more, been reading more on this forum, and now feel secure in my faith and am an egalitarian. Should I identify as a feminist again? Should I just stay an egalitarian? I still kind of have hope for the feminist movement and there are some things I agree with. I just don't like that the movement has embraced some very worldly and sinful things.

Hello! Fellow Scrupulosity OCD sufferer here! I also stumbled onto Transformed Wife and it messed me up for a long time. Also suffer trauma issues (am in intense therapy twice weekly) from abuse from a Christian father and a legalistic evangelical upbringing which am de constructing from

I was allowed and in fact, encouraged to have a career for which am grateful for but my mother was not allowed to leave my father. also Lori Alexander's issues with women leaving home as soon as they adults and being independent really affected me because I kept thinking I had been rebellious to leave my father in spite of the abuse...this was massively triggering because dad used to say that all women are under fathers authority until they marry....


Lori also believes that childfree by choice if you're married is a sin but I never desired children and my health issues (physical disability as well as mental) would !take that impossible....the verse about women being saved by childbearing really threw me off balance but someone reassured me that it refers to Mary having Jesus....

I don't like the word feminist because of what the term has come to mean these days, e.g. Abortion on demand for non medical reasons, which I disagree with.

And yet....I also see nothing in Bible saying women cannot vote, have a job, prophesy, evangelize (I know some say women can't be pastors ).

I also support women a rights in terms of shelters for domestic violence, any support for victims /survivors of abuse, (also for m ale victims as well) and I think secular movements who work with domestic violence and rape survivors have many insights that the church would benefit from.

I don't buy that all secular knowledge is world or demonic either....only if it goes against the Bible..all good gifts are from God....

So i don't know what i 'd call myself. I would say just a Christian who knows God is love and honours women


As for biblical gender roles in marriage, God intended the man to be head in sense of being a protector of the woman, not lording it over her.

It does make sense that if a wife and mother can afford to stay home to care for her children, that is better for them, but not all women can afford to, not all are called to be wives or mothers either...and even for wives and mothers God may have a calling for them which extends outside the home. I read the keepers at home scripture to mean two things. Number 1, women in Paul's day were generally 98% wives and mothers and were expected to be home, women married at puberty straight from their fathers or uncles or brothers home. Number 2/ I don't think even then it meant women could not have interests of their own as long as the children and home were the main focus. So today, if a mother has outside interests that is ok if she still has the and focus for and in her children

those are just my opinions though

I would say that I am mostly complementarian as I don't have an issue with husband being head of the wife as long as that doesn't mean he is lording it over her. and there should be no abuse. But it took me many years , decades to accept that because of the abuse making me wary of male authority.

I think one has to be aware of extremes. I see a lot of legalism in movements like The Transformed Wife, Biblical Gender Roles, Quiverfull, Bill Gothard etc and I really don't think Jesus died for us to be in bondage. And don't get me started on some of the more extreme holiness churches where a woman is damned to hell if she trims her hair (bible says hair not to be shorn on a woman, doesn't say it can't be trimmed, bobbed or styled) or wears a bathing suit.

 

[Junia]

Why must labels be study on everything?

As you say the feminist movement is adopting some dodgy ideas.
As a Christian one has plenty of ammunition to argue for justice for everybody.

It is Christianity that supports equality, no other philosophical idea does.
It is Christianity that places value on both men and women yet also assigned separate roles to them.
Stats show that where people follow these roles they report greater levels of mental health, happiness and contentment

May I suggest forget label but seek to live as a Christian.

The biblical gender roles are for wives and mothers and also apply to church settings e.g. "A woman shouldn't teach" was only applied in the church. God hasn't issues with women voting or having careers or deciding to live single and independent as long as no fornication. A woman can have pets instead of children and still be serving the Lord wholeheartedly!

I do see your point as regards labels though.

 

[Junia]

I agree that we will never achieve complete equality, just as we will never achieve world peace or any other kind of perfection on this earth. And I also agree that men and women do have things that they are better at and like more as a whole. For example, men are more likely to do jobs involving manual labor, combat, guarding, etc. than women, while women are more likely to do jobs involving fashion, child care, etc.

While there are many feminists I am sure that don't want to do those things, including feminists who don't want women to have to register for the draft (frankly, I don't think men or women should have to fight in a war that they don't believe in or that may be mostly political, e.g. Vietnam), I do know that women, and feminists, aren't a monolith. Three women who I went to school with went into the military after high school. I also know women who are in more traditionally feminine occupations. I cannot speak for all egalitarians and feminists, but gender equality to me is equal opportunities, not equal results. I don't really care what men and women do for a living, I just believe it should be something that makes them happy, something in which they have sufficient financial security (whether it comes from a paycheck or a working spouse), and something for which they are well qualified.

I don't think women should be forced into certain occupations just for the sake of social progress, but I do think women should have a choice, and even encouragement. I've heard so many stories about women who, from girlhood, wanted to be scientists, mathematicians, astronomers, astronauts, etc., but were shot down and discouraged by those around them, and that makes me sad.

Yes!

There is nothing wrong with being a wife and mother full time. I do think mothers have a vocation, a calling from God and it is a special one. I expect in heaven their reward is great.

But not all of us can be like that. I haven't the strength physically or of character , many women don't . and that's ok too.

God has a a plan for each of His children and it isn't all the same. YEs, the majority of women will feel sexual desire, and so should marry. and children, if they can afford to, either financially or in terms of health and wellbeing, are a blessing.

But we aren't all made the same and there are so manifests to serve the Lord.

 

[Emily Write]

I would say I am a feminist to some extent, but do not agree with all sections of it. I am more for the ongoing and much needed international kind in nations where women lack much needed rights rather than the modern American version we see in YouTube yelling about how all men are trashy rapists.

Like for the best example, I really hate the stuff that gives all men a hard time rather than just the ones who are predators. The greatest kinds that I would say are the ones that fight for women's basic human rights to have control over their own lives with being able to drive, own a bank account, get an education, have a job, choose who or if they marry, fights against child marriage, anti rape, etc.

 

[*Starlight*]

Just thought about resurrecting an old thread

I support gender equality, and I'd rather just identify as an egalitarian rather than a feminist.

Feminism isn't really unified, there are many different forms of it, and some of them even call each other "not true feminists". It's a mess. Some forms of feminism are egalitarian (equity feminism, for example), while other forms aren't (like the SJWs you mentioned in the OP). And the non-egalitarian ones seem more popular, so calling myself a "feminist" could be misleading and not accurately express my egalitarian views.