Just a thought

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

In each person's profile, we are asked to tell how many years we have been a Christian. For me, this question has always been something of a perplexing question. Growing up Southern Baptist, I was never truly satisfied with the teaching that you just have to say this little prayer and you'll be saved. I struggled with this for years, constantly re-afirming my salvation through such thoughts. Eventually, I got over this and just accepted that I knew that salvation was more than just saying a prayer and continuing your old life. I realised that if a person truly meant that prayer, they would persever. I guess you could say I was a Calvinist all my life in that sense.

In the past two years, I have full assurance of my salvation, but the question of how many years I've been a Christian has plagued me. I think back four years ago when I had a "spiritual reformation", what was I thinking on? Was I concerned of spiritual things, or was it just a carnal repentance with a concern for Jesus taking care of my temporal life. In reviewing my heart, I think it was the latter of the two. However, these days I know that it is my spiritual welfare that is my concern, that Jesus has paid the price and He grows me in grace and helps me to overcome sin in my life and make me more Christ-like. Not for salvation, but for love of God and an improved witness and so forth.

A few minutes ago, while I was looking through my profile and updating where I saw fit, something occured to me. How many years have I been a Christian? That sounds like, when did I make the choice? The choice was God's before the foundation of the world. Since the box only allows 5 numbers, I have decided to use 6000+ to represent the fact that God elected me to salvation before the foundation of the world. As a literal creationist, I believe the universe as we know it to be at least 6,000 years old. I was just curious what those who uphold the doctrines of election thought about this perception of their salvation?

 

[Knight]

Interesting thoughts.

You'll notice that mine has a range of years for similar reasons.

 

[Ryft]

I think that's a good question, too, but I think my answer would be "six years" rather than "eternity" because the question seems to regard effectual calling rather than election. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

you are right, there is certainly a time line of effectual calling, but my thought is simply that God has had all of our names on our hearts since the beginning.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Interesting thoughts.

You'll notice that mine has a range of years for similar reasons.

glad to see that I am not the only one who has had such struggles.

 

[Ryft]

you are right, there is certainly a time line of effectual calling, but my thought is simply that God has had all of our names on our hearts since the beginning.

A typo there, but yes I totally agree.

However, the question regarded how long one has been a Christian, and while the elect are numbered by God from the foundation of the world, I just don't think a person can be considered a Christian until (at the very least) he is born. But arguably they need to be a little older, as well, for the ordo salutis to be meaningful (e.g. gospel call, inward call, regeneration, conversion, etc).

 

[cygnusx1]

In each person's profile, we are asked to tell how many years we have been a Christian. For me, this question has always been something of a perplexing question. Growing up Southern Baptist, I was never truly satisfied with the teaching that you just have to say this little prayer and you'll be saved. I struggled with this for years, constantly re-afirming my salvation through such thoughts. Eventually, I got over this and just accepted that I knew that salvation was more than just saying a prayer and continuing your old life. I realised that if a person truly meant that prayer, they would persever. I guess you could say I was a Calvinist all my life in that sense.

In the past two years, I have full assurance of my salvation, but the question of how many years I've been a Christian has plagued me. I think back four years ago when I had a "spiritual reformation", what was I thinking on? Was I concerned of spiritual things, or was it just a carnal repentance with a concern for Jesus taking care of my temporal life. In reviewing my heart, I think it was the latter of the two. However, these days I know that it is my spiritual welfare that is my concern, that Jesus has paid the price and He grows me in grace and helps me to overcome sin in my life and make me more Christ-like. Not for salvation, but for love of God and an improved witness and so forth.

A few minutes ago, while I was looking through my profile and updating where I saw fit, something occured to me. How many years have I been a Christian? That sounds like, when did I make the choice? The choice was God's before the foundation of the world. Since the box only allows 5 numbers, I have decided to use 6000+ to represent the fact that God elected me to salvation before the foundation of the world. As a literal creationist, I believe the universe as we know it to be at least 6,000 years old. I was just curious what those who uphold the doctrines of election thought about this perception of their salvation?

Mine just has a question mark....................it's never been clean cut for me...

 

[theseed]

Salvation is a condition of the heart, and what is in the heart will come out of the mouth (Rom. 10.9-17). So the sinners prayer is good. God knows what we need before we ask him. And it makes since that if we realize our desperate state that would cry out to God and beg for Him to save us.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Mine just has a question mark....................it's never been clean cut for me...

Mine used to have 2 question marks so I am there with ya

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Salvation is a condition of the heart, and what is in the heart will come out of the mouth (Rom. 10.9-17). So the sinners prayer is good. God knows what we need before we ask him. And it makes since that if we realize our desperate state that would cry out to God and beg for Him to save us.

Yes but giving someone a prayer to pray verbatim is not the same as it coming out of the heart. All I am getting at is that I don't know/can't remember whether I was sincere. Furthurmore, the music I would listen to, the things I would think up until about 18 months ago were so vain and contrary to God that I really have to wonder if I were ever saved until then. Basically, my whole lifestyle was worldly and there was no guilt of the things I did even though I was aware that many were contrary to God's law. Then again, this could be the marks of sanctification in my life. My point is simple, my hope this day rests entirely upon the merits of Christ; I cannot say if that were the case always.

 

[theseed]

Yes but giving someone a prayer to pray verbatim is not the same as it coming out of the heart. All I am getting at is that I don't know/can't remember whether I was sincere. Furthurmore, the music I would listen to, the things I would think up until about 18 months ago were so vain and contrary to God that I really have to wonder if I were ever saved until then. Basically, my whole lifestyle was worldly and there was no guilt of the things I did even though I was aware that many were contrary to God's law. Then again, this could be the marks of sanctification in my life. My point is simple, my hope this day rests entirely upon the merits of Christ; I cannot say if that were the case always.

It's not the prayer that saves, but actually meaning the prayer--salvation is a matter of the heart.

 

[theseed]

But as I said earlier, loving God is the key. Christ said if "you love me, you will keep my commandments. And if you continue in my world,then you are my true disciples."

In differenent chapters of course.

 

[theseed]

But to get down to the technicalities--being Christian means being like Christ. How long have you tried to emulate Christ? How long have you followed him?

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

It's not the prayer that saves, but actually meaning the prayer--salvation is a matter of the heart.

Yes my friend, upon that point we agree. I am not arguing that Southern Baptists who use this prayer think that empty words will still save. I am merely pointing out, as you have as well, that one must mean them. Then Calvinists take it a step further and say that only those whom God has regenerated and placed His hand upon will ever feel the conviction of sin to truly feel these things in their heart.

 

[theseed]

Yes my friend, upon that point we agree. I am not arguing that Southern Baptists who use this prayer think that empty words will still save. I am merely pointing out, as you have as well, that one must mean them. Then Calvinists take it a step further and say that only those whom God has regenerated and placed His hand upon will ever feel the conviction of sin to truly feel these things in their heart.

And I agree with that as well. It is our job to preach/teach the Gospel, and leave God to seperate the wheat from the tares.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

But to get down to the technicalities--being Christian means being like Christ. How long have you tried to emulate Christ? How long have you followed him?

18 months at the most. I think the rest of the time was sheer hypocracy.

 

[Ryft]

But to get down to the technicalities--being Christian means being like Christ. How long have you tried to emulate Christ? How long have you followed him?

To be conformed to the likeness of the Son is something God does, no? And he who began a good work in us will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus, no?

 

[Reformationist]

Up until a couple of days ago I had not posted in a couple of months. I would just like to say that while I've been gone another clearly knowledgeable reformed Christian has come on board and it warms my heart to see the Word explained with such alacrity and clarity. My compliments and salutations to you Ryft for your strong grasp of God's Word.

God bless,
Don

 

[theseed]

To be conformed to the likeness of the Son is something God does, no? And he who began a good work in us will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus, no?

[bible]John 3:21[/bible]
[bible]Romans 8:28-30[/bible]
[bible]Philippians 1:6[/bible]

 

[Ryft]

Precisely.

P.S. Is that "bible" BBCode tag equipped with different translations? Can one use it to quote from, say, NAS?