Judas was once saved and lost it...

Lavendar Frog · Jul 23, 2015

As pertains to Judas and the aspersions that are cast upon him for his betraying Jesus to the Sanhedrin.
Jesus tells us in the scriptures that describe his meditation prior to his arrest and while he was in the garden of Gethsemane, that he asked the Father to remove this cup from him if it be his will.
The coming arrest, torture, crucifixion. That perfect lamb of God, that unblemished final sacrifice that would take upon himself on the cross altar the sins of the world.
Jesus was born so as to die for the redemption of the sinful world he was born into. He knew this.

How would his mission otherwise be accomplished were it not for Judas setting it into motion?
How else would the son of God, the son of man, die for our sins?

outsidethecamp · Jul 23, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
In the OT men were saved by looking forward to the cross ... Judas was living in the OT (pre new covenant) ...and salvation could only come by looking forward to the cross.. The fact he betrayed Christ shows He had no understanding of the OT promises of a spiritual Savior.. He like most of Israel at that time looked for a political Savior .... no not saved.. Devils are never saved

We are all children of disobedience before being saved. (Eph 2). We all have the Devil as our father before regeneration. Men are not devils, but they can be possessed of them.

Sammy-San · Jul 23, 2015

brinny said:
What did Jesus say about Judas that summed up Judas' life and whether he was redeemed or not? Do you know where in the Bible Jesus says this?

John 17:12 says Judas was lost, implying he lost his salvation.

rnmomof7 · Jul 23, 2015

outsidethecamp said:
We are all children of disobedience before being saved. (Eph 2).

Lavendar Frog said:

As pertains to Judas and the aspersions that are cast upon him for his betraying Jesus to the Sanhedrin.
Jesus tells us in the scriptures that describe his meditation prior to his arrest and while he was in the garden of Gethsemane, that he asked the Father to remove this cup from him if it be his will.
The coming arrest, torture, crucifixion. That perfect lamb of God, that unblemished final sacrifice that would take upon himself on the cross altar the sins of the world.
Jesus was born so as to die for the redemption of the sinful world he was born into. He knew this.

How would his mission otherwise be accomplished were it not for Judas setting it into motion?
How else would the son of God, the son of man, die for our sins?

Click to expand...

Indeed ...the betrayal and death of Christ was predestined before the foundation of the earth..and Judas was a tool in the hand of God as were the Sanhedrian and Pilate ...

rnmomof7 · Jul 23, 2015

Superhero Sam said:
John 17:12 says Judas was lost, implying he lost his salvation.

"Implying" really??..

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
12. I kept—guarded.
them in thy name—acting as Thy Representative on earth.

none of them is lost, but the son of perdition—It is not implied here that the son of perdition was one of those whom the Father had given to the Son, but rather the contrary (Joh 13:18) [Webster and Wilkinson]. It is just as in Lu 4:26, 27, where we are not to suppose that the woman of Sarepta (in Sidon) was one of the widows of Israel, nor Naaman the Syrian one of the lepers in Israel, though the language—the same as here—might seem to express it.

son of perdition—doomed to it (2Th 2:3; Mr 14:21).

brinny · Jul 23, 2015

Superhero Sam said:
John 17:12 says Judas was lost, implying he lost his salvation.

He was never saved from the gitgo.

brinny · Jul 23, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
"Implying" really??..

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
12. I kept—guarded.
them in thy name—acting as Thy Representative on earth.

none of them is lost, but the son of perdition—It is not implied here that the son of perdition was one of those whom the Father had given to the Son, but rather the contrary (Joh 13:18) [Webster and Wilkinson]. It is just as in Lu 4:26, 27, where we are not to suppose that the woman of Sarepta (in Sidon) was one of the widows of Israel, nor Naaman the Syrian one of the lepers in Israel, though the language—the same as here—might seem to express it.

son of perdition—doomed to it (2Th 2:3; Mr 14:21).

Exactly.

outsidethecamp · Jul 23, 2015

God knows the future and thus can prophesy through his prophets. We see everything on Monday morning. If Judas had not betrayed Jesus, He still would have been killed but there would be no prophecies about Judas. We confuse God telling us through prophecies what is going to happen with God preordaining men to hell.

Luke_22:2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
John_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John_7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

rnmomof7 · Jul 23, 2015

outsidethecamp said:
God knows the future and thus can prophesy through his prophets. We see everything on Monday morning. If Judas had not betrayed Jesus, He still would have been killed but there would be no prophecies about Judas. We confuse God telling us through prophecies what is going to happen with God preordaining men to hell.

Luke_22:2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
John_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John_7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

Actually the bible tells us that God ordained it ... it was no "foreseen incident"

Isa37:26 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Sammy-San · Jul 23, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
"Implying" really??..

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
12. I kept—guarded.
them in thy name—acting as Thy Representative on earth.

none of them is lost, but the son of perdition—It is not implied here that the son of perdition was one of those whom the Father had given to the Son, but rather the contrary (Joh 13:18) [Webster and Wilkinson]. It is just as in Lu 4:26, 27, where we are not to suppose that the woman of Sarepta (in Sidon) was one of the widows of Israel, nor Naaman the Syrian one of the lepers in Israel, though the language—the same as here—might seem to express it.

son of perdition—doomed to it (2Th 2:3; Mr 14:21).

rnmomof7 said:
"Implying" really??..

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
12. I kept—guarded.
them in thy name—acting as Thy Representative on earth.

none of them is lost, but the son of perdition—It is not implied here that the son of perdition was one of those whom the Father had given to the Son, but rather the contrary (Joh 13:18) [Webster and Wilkinson]. It is just as in Lu 4:26, 27, where we are not to suppose that the woman of Sarepta (in Sidon) was one of the widows of Israel, nor Naaman the Syrian one of the lepers in Israel, though the language—the same as here—might seem to express it.

son of perdition—doomed to it (2Th 2:3; Mr 14:21).

Why do you disagree with my choices of words?

outsidethecamp · Jul 23, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
Actually the bible tells us that God ordained it ... it was no "foreseen incident"

Isa37:26 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God foreknew it but Judas exercised his free choice to betray Jesus. God did not make him do it.

rnmomof7 · Jul 23, 2015

outsidethecamp said:
God foreknew it but Judas exercised his free choice to betray Jesus. God did not make him do it.

Do you have a scripture that ??

rnmomof7 · Jul 23, 2015

Superhero Sam said:
Why do you disagree with my choices of words?

Because when we start "implying " we can imply all the way to Mormonism.. ..what we know is what the scripture tells us

Sammy-San · Jul 23, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
Because when we start "implying " we can imply all the way to Mormonism.. ..what we know is what the scripture tells us

That's

outsidethecamp said:
God knows the future and thus can prophesy through his prophets. We see everything on Monday morning. If Judas had not betrayed Jesus, He still would have been killed but there would be no prophecies about Judas. We confuse God telling us through prophecies what is going to happen with God preordaining men to hell.

Luke_22:2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
John_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John_7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

That doesn't make sense. Youre implying that Judas's actions didn't cause Jesus's death.

Lavendar Frog · Jul 23, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
Do you have a scripture that ??

Acts 2:23
This Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

LoveofTruth · Jul 23, 2015

outsidethecamp said:
I'm not sure you can go that far.

He did not have them receive the Holy Spirit until after His resurrection.
John_20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Either way, Judas, referred to Judas as the "son of perdition".

If he ever did have saving faith, he rejected Christ and ended all relationship with Him which would mean he "fell away" and of course if he never did have saving faith as OT saints did, then he just had a form of godliness.

There are better ways to establish the false teaching of OSAS.

Hello again,

I have found that there are indeed many other ways to establish biblical teaching against the OSAS doctrine. But so far I have found that Judas is a very strong one, and I have never had anyone given any credible scriptures against it. Jesus clearly calls His 12 sheep and he sent forth the 12 and ordained them and gave them power to cast out devils and they all belonged to the father before they were given to Jesus. Never have I heard any stand against these verses. Usually they just say No he couldn't have been saved, ( because that would mess up their teaching) or he was ALWAYS a thief and ALWAYS a devil. having no scripture to justify that. But most of the people I speak these things to rush in a frenzy and fear to other scriptures rather than dealing with the Matthew 10 Acts 1 John 17 Psalms 69 scriptures about Judas

Also the Holy Ghost baptism, was after Christ rose. The Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the father was given before he rose. Jesus said before he rose from the dead that the Spirit of the Father would speak in them, Also Paul says that is ant man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of him Romans 8. That would include all OT saints as well. And Abraham had the Spirit of Christ as we do, Galatians 3.

The believers had the Spirit of Christ and were born again and showed they were born again before the cross by their confession of Jesus being the Christ the Son of God.( read 1 John 4:15 and 1 John 5:1).

LoveofTruth · Jul 23, 2015

pastor marty said:
I'm trying to reply to "Future&hope" & everyone else on this topic,I still do the "Please don't leave or forsake me prayer" with greater regularity than a convict begging for parole.Believing I can lose my ticket to Heaven makes me work harder for GOD.

it should make you believe more firmly, not works, unbelief is how we depart from the living God. This unbelief can happen as we are hardened through the deceitfulness of sin Hebrews 3

LoveofTruth · Jul 23, 2015

rnmomof7 said:
In the OT men were saved by looking forward to the cross ... Judas was living in the OT (pre new covenant) ...and salvation could only come by looking forward to the cross.. The fact he betrayed Christ shows He had no understanding of the OT promises of a spiritual Savior.. He like most of Israel at that time looked for a political Savior .... no not saved.. Devils are never saved

Judas was an apostle, a disciple, a sheep sent to the lost sheep, a familiar friend of Jesus whom he once trusted,

LoveofTruth · Jul 23, 2015

FutureAndAHope said:
Maybe he was, maybe he was not. Jesus also said:

Mat 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus said many would do works in his name, that He never knew, the fact of knowing God, is to obey, i.e. not be lawless, Judas was lawless, he was a thief. He may never have known God truly.

Consider 1 John 1 and specifically 1 John 3:6

LoveofTruth · Jul 23, 2015

ChristsSoldier115 said:
Judas can't be saved before Christ's death. Christ had to die to save Judas, just everyone else.

No all OT saints were SAINTS ( godly ) before Christ death but not without his death in time. David had salvation and when he had sin he prayed for forgiveness and asked God to restore unto him the joy of his salvation. David also asked God to CREATE IN him a clean heat and to renew a right spirt within him. This is the new birth. David was born again by the word of God he said things like " thy word hath quickened me" or thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee, (compare this with 1 John 3:9)

and jesus called Judas one of his sheep sent to the lost sheep. Jesus said he gives unto hsi sheep eternal life and they know him. And before the cross Jesus said of the believers

"12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost,..." John 17:12

consider

Judas was once saved and lost it...

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