Joyce Meyer

[Andry]

I give on a monthly basis to Joyce Meyer - I'm glad she drives a Porsche and lives in a nice house...I know from her teachings she is not attached to these things and God comes first for her always...I hope she enjoys them and they bless her richly.

God loves to bless his people, the abundant life in the here and now as our eternal life is today. And may all those who have been called into 'ministry' as a vocation be abundantly blessed.

But everytime I think of Samuel, Jonah, Elijah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and others, who are proclaiming God's kingdom, I somehow don't think they had a huge desert oasis with palm trees, dancing girls, and other such frivolities, to hang out after one of their missions, campaigns or conferences. I don't think they cared about such things or proclaimed about such things as many evangelists do today.

 

[Ann Doupont]

I'll jump right in. I would hope that God would use all of us in a mighty way.

But if you happen to become one those 'big evangelists', why don't we make an arbitrary rule right now: you can double your current salary and stick with it, even if your ministry rakes in hundreds of millions of dollars. Deal?

Sorry that I can't make that kind of deal, about doubling my current salary.

Zero x 2 = Zero.

Ann

 

[Andry]

Sorry that I can't make that kind of deal, about doubling my current salary.

Zero x 2 = Zero.

Ann

But you still get my meaning.

 

[kidsminister]

But you still get my meaning.

Hmmm...so suppose someone makes, say, $100/wk working as a children's pastor as their current ministry salary, and works a full time day job in order to pay bills. Then they're offered a chance to become a traveling children's evangelist, their ministry takes off and they are able to quit said day job.

Should they double the salary they were making doing ministry, or double the salary they were making with their day job? Or do they combine the monthly incomes from the two and double that? Keep in mind that the wages from the day job were a bit lower than your average professional salary...can it be doubled + time and a half to compensate for that?

At what point did this scenario start becoming ridiculous?

 

[Andry]

Hmmm...

At what point did this scenario start becoming ridiculous?

Well, yeah, your scenario is ridiculous. In my earlier post, I did say "arbitrary", ie, it's not doctrine, therefore to be taken in jest.

Allow me to articulate for clarity in the context of televangelists.

Some of you know I run a public company. Yes, it's a "secular" job. It wouldn't be out of line for the salaries and/or bonuses of public company CEO's to be tied to the performance of their companies. And it certainly wouldn't be out of line for the salaries and/or bonuses of CEO's and/or principals (the owners) of private companies to be tied to the performance of their companies. They are in business to make money and get rich for themselves and/or their shareholders.

While TV ministries (or any ministry for that matter) are legal business entities (non-profit of course), are the principals there to make money and become rich?

I'm a strong proponent that any TV ministry should have a business model, and a financially sustainable one at that. But what are the goals of the ministry? Why do they exist? What do they exist for?

I dare say most current ministers/evangelists/pastors etc in full-time ministry are able to live on what they're currently paid by their church/ministry, and hence an arbitrary doubling would be considered an incredible blessing. It would meet their 'needs', and most likely pay for a lot of their 'wants'.

So if a televangelist's ministry takes off and 'makes it big', ie. revenues are in the hundreds of millions of dollars, should the televangelists pay be tied to the financial performance of their ministry?

I'd take a doubling of my salary any day, and be fully content with that - even though, being in a 'secular' business environment I would have every right to expect my salary to be in line with the performance of my company as I'm there to make money for my shareholders and myself.

Aren't those who minister called to a higher standard? So how much pay is enough? How many cars is enough? How large a house is big enough?

 

[kidsminister]

Andry - I see your point regarding televangelists...I don't know how I feel about that. I guess it's not really my place to judge, especially since I don't personally support them financially...

As far as pastors and evangelists go, it is a misconception that they make enough $$ in their ministries to supply their needs. My senior pastor has to choose between a retirement fund or paying for health insurance for his kids. There are a lot more "small church" pastors struggling to make it than there are Benny Hinns, Joyce Meyers, or even mega-church pastors.

In the Christian church, we seem to always equate ministry with poverty. As in, "I'm going into the ministry, so I guess I'll always struggle financially." And if a pastor dares to get ahead just a little bit - if the pastor's wife is blessed financially by someone and decides to buy an expensive coat instead of more Sunday School supplies, people's tongues will wag.

I had a friend in college whose father was a pastor, and the church did not pay them enough $$ to live on, and yet let them know that they as a congregation would be offended if they sought any government assistance (fuel, medical, etc.) because it was a bruise to their ego.

As someone who grew up in a low income family and listened to prosperity preachers talk about how "if you have enough faith, you'll be rich," when my mom, who has more faith than anyone I know, was struggling to make ends meet, I see how people can get incensed by televangelists who drive Porsches and have mansions.

On the other hand, from a pastor's perspective, I also see that people have unrealistic expectations of pastors in regards to how much they think we should or shouldn't have. Another friend (still another PK) and her family were at a church where the people's idea of a parsonage was a trailer with a hole rusted out in the center of the living room while they lived in mansions down the street from the church.

I agree that there needs to be a healthy balance there...what it is, I don't know! Can't we all just get along?

God Bless!

 

[Kebisoni]

Yes!! Can't we all just get along?

Amen to that Kidsminister!!

I really don't mind how much Joyce gets paid - as far as I'm concerned she is worth it. And if you are not giving to her I don't see why it bothers people? Afterall - if I want my money to go to Joyce then I should be able to send it surely? And I am happy for her to spend it on whatever...

Bottom line is I trust her to do what God tells her to do with the money....so frankly I only see the giving as my business - the spending is between her and God. And that is the way I am happy to leave it...I don't have answer for her...so I don't have to worry how she looks after the money...I just need to concentrate on my relationship with God (which is hard enough) without worrying whether Minister X, Y and Z are walking with the Lord in exactly the way I feel they should be! Joyce included...

She has helped me...and for me that is enough testimony if you knew the mess she helped me out of.

 

[Ann Doupont]

But you still get my meaning.

Nope. Sorry, brother. I don't get your meaning. After I posted this, I thought about it, and then wondered who it is who is responsible for setting my salary/income. God, or man??

God's word does say that if we give, it shall be given to us. And, if we tithe (with faith), the windows of heaven will be opened to us.

I don't know how this thread got "off" in talking about televangelist's income. I believe that their income is God's business. If I choose to not give to them, because I don't like how much they have, then that's between me and God. If I choose to give, then this too is between me and God.

To continue to criticize a minister, without knowing all the facts, is not a good idea. What we sow, we SHALL reap (as in criticism).

Ann

 

[Andry]

To continue to criticize a minister, without knowing all the facts, is not a good idea. What we sow, we SHALL reap (as in criticism).

Ann

I don't think I even mentioned "Joyce" in any of my posts.

 

[charityagape]

What's is this need they feel for Porsches, Lear Jets, 10,000 sq.ft. mansions, yachts, and Rolexes? I don't get it.

Is it wrong for anyone to have these items? Any Christian to have these things? Any human being?

 

[Ann Doupont]

Is it wrong for anyone to have these items? Any Christian to have these things? Any human being?

I don't think so. I personally have no need for them, at least at this time. They would only get in my way, if I had too many things. I'd then have more things to take care of, and less time for the Lord.

But, if someone wants, or needs, expensive items, I don't see why not. If someone gave something to me, or any other minister, as a gift, should I refuse it? Or, receive it and then sell it? That happened to me once. I gave my car to a ministry as a gift. They then sold it. My feelings were hurt.

Mentally, I figured out why they sold it, as many others began donating their cars to the ministry, too. They didn't need that many cars. They bought a brand new van to transport the people from their men's and women's home. I'm sure that the money they got for the sale of my car was probably used for one of the payments for the van.

Still, it bothered me (as I'm human). Once I gave them the car, they were free to do with it as they chose. However, the pastor had prayed with me that the car be used for the Kingdom. Maybe in a round about way, it was.

Ann

 

[JimB]

Well, Jim, you should happy to know that you will mostly never be one of them. You will probably never be a well-known minister with a million dollars. It is possible, you know, that God placed some of them in these positions for His purpose. It might even happen to me some day. If it does, I would imagine there will be a lot of criticism, too.

People have already accused me of promoting myself....

Ann

Ann,

You and I disagree on who God has placed in TV evangelism. My experience (and I have some) is that the men and women who rise to prominence in Big Time TV Ministry Fundraising (which is all TV evangelism, with rare exception, really is) have promoted themselves to that kind of prominence with every promotion tool available. Big Name evangelists are the product of successful marketing. Don’t blame God for what they have become. Do you really think that every preacher has the twisted ambition to be a big name TV fundraiser or could possibly admire them or want to be like them? Honestly, some ministers think more of themselves and their calling than to want to stoop to that level.

~Jim

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Jim,
Do you think God has placed anyone in the TV minstry?
I am just curious if your statement includes everyone.
Peace
Dids

Ann,

You and I disagree on who God has placed in TV evangelism. My experience (and I have some) is that the men and women who rise to prominence in Big Time TV Ministry Fundraising (which is all TV evangelism, with rare exception, really is) have promoted themselves to that kind of prominence with every promotion tool available. Big Name evangelists are the product of successful marketing. Don’t blame God for what they have become. Do you really think that every preacher has the twisted ambition to be a big name TV fundraiser or could possibly admire them or want to be like them? Honestly, some ministers think more of themselves and their calling than to want to stoop to that level.

~Jim

 

[JimB]

Jim,
Do you think God has placed anyone in the TV minstry?
I am just curious if your statement includes everyone.
Peace
Dids

Maybe. But who knows who is honest and who is not? The devil has done an excellent job in blurring the distinction. IMO, it is just too much trouble – and too frustrating – to have to dig through all the cr*p to find the pearl. It’s just not worth it when we have so many wonderful local pastors who can fill the bill. Why risk my integrity and waste time on high school drop-out evangelists with pretentious mail order “Dr.” degrees and a money-making scam in order to get my spiritual food? Who needs televangelists, anyhow? They do far more harm to the cause of the kingdom with their outlandish claims and flaunted, self-indulgent wealth than any imagined good they may be credited with.

~Jim

 

[charityagape]

Maybe. But who knows who is honest and who is not? The devil has done an excellent job in blurring the distinction. IMO, it is just too much trouble – and too frustrating – to have to dig through all the cr*p to find the pearl. It’s just not worth it when we have so many wonderful local pastors who can fill the bill. Why risk my integrity and waste time on high school drop-out evangelists with pretentious mail order “Dr.” degrees and a money-making scam in order to get my spiritual food? Who needs televangelists, anyhow? They do far more harm to the cause of the kingdom with their outlandish claims and flaunted, self-indulgent wealth than any imagined good they may be credited with.

~Jim

I guess we should leave all the money, all the airtime, all the culture, to the heathens why we hide in our local church buildings (I say buildings cause the church is the people not the place) and congradulate ourselves on how holy we are, while the whole time the world goes to hell.

Jesus hung out with prostitutes and sinners and he drank wine and was riduled for such things. He preached to thousands and thousands on hillsides (if tv had been available he'd have used it) Jesus didn't stick to his local church, he reached out, all Television is is a means to reach out.

 

[Ann Doupont]

Maybe. But who knows who is honest and who is not? The devil has done an excellent job in blurring the distinction. IMO, it is just too much trouble – and too frustrating – to have to dig through all the cr*p to find the pearl. It’s just not worth it when we have so many wonderful local pastors who can fill the bill. Why risk my integrity and waste time on high school drop-out evangelists with pretentious mail order “Dr.” degrees and a money-making scam in order to get my spiritual food? Who needs televangelists, anyhow? They do far more harm to the cause of the kingdom with their outlandish claims and flaunted, self-indulgent wealth than any imagined good they may be credited with.

~Jim

You asked who knows who is honest, and who isn't? That's a no-brainer. God knows.

If we really know His voice (His sheep know His voice), we'll know what to do. If we don't, then we need to check ourselves to see whose voice we're listening to.

Ann

 

[jiminpa]

Anyone else notice that this thread started out about Joyce Meyer's teaching, and when those who hate her, (at that is what it is), couldn't say anything bad about what she actually teaches, it moved quickly into personal attacks against Joyce Meyer herself.

If we don't, then we need to check ourselves to see whose voice we're listening to.

Good point, I wonder whose voice is being listened to when the attacks are personal, and unsusbstantiated.

 

[jiminpa]

I think if I were some of you, I would take an honest look at my heart for jealousy. I'm not saying that as an attack. It's a real suggestion. There's a lot being said here that really seems rooted in jealousy. In fact, I think I could use a good hard look at myself with the Holy Spirit's guidance.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I agree, I think it's exactly that with most who hate her and her teachings. Jealousy!
​

AND NOW



Mod Hat
​

On that note I'm going to cut in as mod here and respectfully request that those who do NOT like Joyce or her teachings to stay out of the threads that talk about her. People know your opinion and it is not necessary to keep turning a peacful conversation among those who DO like her into a battle zone.

Thank you.​

 

[JimB]

Some of us do not have a problem with Joyce Meyer, personally. We do not even know the woman. But some of us do have a problem with the system in which she is forced (willingly or unwillingly) to minister, a system that allows, even promotes, fraud and deception. Some, because we attack this corrupt system (and it needs to be attacked), feel we are talking about their favorite televangelist and start taking things personally or personalizing general statements and then making false charges at those who do not agree with their enabling views of a corrupted and corrupting system. This is just as wrong as any imagined attack they claim we make on their favorite TV personality.

But, hey, like you, I get weary with these kinds of circular-argument threads and will happily bow out of this one.

~Jim