Joyce Meyer

[jiminpa]

I don't listen to Joyce Meyer regularly, but I listen to her when I happen to catch her. She acknowledges the belief that if you give to God's work, (and she considers her ministry to be that), that God will honor it. She askes for money on her program, but in no more of a manipulative way than passing a plate that everyone knows what it is for and feels obligated to put money in, in fact I feel much less so. If I have ever heard her mention some form of seed-faith it is in passing, and not the body of the message. If she where doing these things you would be able to criticize her teaching, and have a good point.

But you want to determine when she and others are accepting too much salary, or at least, when they are not hiding it well enough.

So let's put this into application. Would it be okay for she and her husband to drive new Escalades? If not, would used ones be acceptable? What is the top end vehicle that is acceptable for a minister to drive? How do we determine that? How many square feet of housing is it okay for a minister to live in, and who decided that? How expensive of a gift is too much and must be returned? Is it acceptable for a ministry to save money buying a jet and putting a pilot on salary in order to keep schedule, or must they spend more to charter it, so as not to offend Dan Rather?

 

[chava]

I used to listen to her when I was a young Christian. I still catch her now and then. She and Kate McVeigh really established me in the faith so I like her.

 

[jiminpa]

That was too funny!!!!

Thank you! I'm glad someone got it. I really love pointed humor, but I'm not usually very good at it. As the saying goes, "even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes."

 

[M21]

I think of her as a Prophetess of profit.

 

[chava]

lol. She does get alot of financial aid.

 

[Ann Doupont]

Yep, and it is a rather self-serving doctrine isn't it?

You know, Ann, this giving as "the Spirit directs” is too often just a cover for foolish giving and poor stewardship. My poor aunt, for instance, poured thousands of needed dollars into the PTL Club (and especially the scandalous Grand Hotel at Heritage Village, before the whole thing bellied-up because of criminal activity leaving her penniless) will tell you to this day that the “Spirit directed” her to give to what turned out to be a sinful TV pseudo-ministry (as Jim Bakker and Richard Dortch have since confessed it was). Money that God had provided to her for her needs she unwisely sent to manipulative millionaires – then blamed God for it, claiming He told her to do it.

My unfortunate little aunt to this day foolishly blames the Holy Spirit for her own carelessness of stewardship. It is the height presumption to believe that God would lead us to support those very things that nailed His Son to the cross and against which He has firmly warned us in His Word. That is flawed theology in spades.

To this day my aunt refuses to admit that her giving was manipulated and emotional. She fell for a sales pitch and suffers to this day for it.

~Jim

Well, Jim, now I see where you're coming from. You have had a personal bad experience with someone close to you, who believed that they were giving as the Spirit directed them. I can understand that. However, if the Spirit REALLY does direct us, then it's different. I never gave a dime to PTL.

God bless.

Ann

 

[jiminpa]

I'm still waiting for an answer as to the specifics of an excessive lifestyle, and who gets to decide.

 

[Christina M]

I have a very good friend. About 10 years ago she was going through a really rough time. She was a Catholic and rejected all my invites over the years to come to my Assembly of God church.

I had a cassette tape of Joyce Meyer's about God's Mercy and Grace. I gave it to my friend. A few days later she called me on a Sat night and said "What time are the services at your church? Will you save seats for us?"

Long story short: She and her husband came, with all 4 of their kids. ALL OF THEM WENT TO THE ALTAR AND ACCEPTED THE LORD!!

She said that the tape from Joyce absolutely changed her life! She went for long walks and runs, listening to that tape and getting revelation of God's love for her. Shortly after, I took them to a Kenneth Copeland Victory Campaign... and ALL of them went up and got filled with the Holy Spirit! It was awesome!

To this day, 10 years later, she and her family credit Joyce Meyer Ministry with leading them to the Truth of the Lord and new life.

 

[lovesblessing]

.....Joyce drives a Porshe that someone gave her as a gift!




lovesblessing

I'm still waiting for an answer as to the specifics of an excessive lifestyle, and who gets to decide.

 

[Kebisoni]

Good for Joyce!!

 

[jiminpa]

.....Joyce drives a Porshe that someone gave her as a gift!




lovesblessing

And just why didn't she sell that and give the money to the poor? Wait, who said that in the Bible?

 

[Hadron]

And just why didn't she sell that and give the money to the poor? Wait, who said that in the Bible?

I like Joyce.

Now be honest... do you sell all your belongings and give them to the poor? ANd let's be real, it doesn't matter how expensive an item you have, it can still help someone.

 

[JimB]

Why would anyone in the public eye and under the scrutiny of the media (and the IRS) want to flaunt a $100,000 Porsche in the face of her supporters, many of whom cannot afford their next utility payment? Anything with four wheels could get her to the airport.

Why would anybody, especially somebody feeding off the goodwill of poor people (and possibly, in the words of Christ, devouring widow’s houses in the process) feel the need to drive around in an unnecessary luxury car? Joyce might as well paste a bull’s-eye on her forehead.

Her new flashy Porsche might be hitting on all its cylinders but somebody’s brain at Joyce Meyers Ministries isn’t.

What is it about these TV preachers that make them feel the need to be so pretentious, showy, flashy, ostentatious, grandiose, and, um, dumb? What’s is this need they feel for Porsches, Lear Jets, 10,000 sq. ft. mansions, yachts, and Rolexes? I don’t get it.

~Jim

 

[jangnim]

I like Joyce.

Now be honest... do you sell all your belongings and give them to the poor? ANd let's be real, it doesn't matter how expensive an item you have, it can still help someone.

I don't dislike Joyce, but her actions are questionable.

There is a vast difference between a person who has limited means, and uses the things that they have, and a person obviously living beyond sensibility. If everyone did as Christ taught, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the poor, and help the oppressed; everyone would live well. No one would be so wealthy as to flaunt their living in the face of others.

Most certainly we could all do more to fulfill the teachings of Christ, but lets think a bit. Who will have the harsher judgement? Will it be the poor person who gives what they can, and still make ends meet, or will it be the wealthy person who lives wealthy beyond reason, on the offerings of those less fortunate?

If we give all that we have to the poor then we too will be poor. It makes sense to live in a modest way, and give of the excess. (Try reading "The Simple Life" by Vernand Eller for some enlightening insights )

 

[Ann Doupont]

The Bible says that if we have something against a brother or sister, we should go to them.

I haven't found anywhere where it says that we should criticize them, and talk about them behind their backs.

If we see something we don't like, or don't understand, we should pray for them.

May God change us all, and give us love one for another!!

Ann

 

[JimB]

The Bible says that if we have something against a brother or sister, we should go to them.

I haven't found anywhere where it says that we should criticize them, and talk about them behind their backs.

If we see something we don't like, or don't understand, we should pray for them.

May God change us all, and give us love one for another!!

Ann

I do not like smearing big name evangelists, either, although they do make perfect targets.

It’s a nasty job but somebody has to do it!! (Just kidding!!)

However, don’t forget these superstars of evangelism have spent their entire lifetimes promoting themselves into the public positions they enjoy, have insulated themselves against their critics and have made themselves accountable to no one (except “God”, of course). Too many of them want the privilege of fame and influence without the responsibility. It is impossible to personally confront a big name evangelist – you will not get past her/his front office and any letter/email you send him/her will be filtered through her/his staff. You cannot even locate them in the cities where they minister – they register in hotels under assumed names.

All of this is designed of course, to fend off criticism, shelter the poor millionaire evangelist, and allow them to continue to act badly with impunity.

It’s just that the mainstream media does not respect these barriers and keep digging up dirt about them. Sometimes, people (like in this forum) simply report what the press has uncovered. Others (like in this forum)would prefer to stick their heads in the sand until God has to pull the rug out from under the next religious crook. And He sometimes has to use Gentiles (like Philistines and Babylonians) to bring correction to His people because judgment does not begin in the house of God. The Apsotle said it very clearly to the Corinthian church, who refused to judge their evildoers, when he wrote, “For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged” (1 Cor. 11.31).

~Jim

 

[Ann Doupont]

I do not like smearing big name evangelists, either, although they do make perfect targets.

It’s a nasty job but somebody has to do it!! (Just kidding!!)

However, don’t forget these superstars of evangelism have spent their entire lifetimes promoting themselves into the public positions they enjoy, have insulated themselves against their critics and have made themselves accountable to no one (except “God”, of course). Too many of them want the privilege of fame and influence without the responsibility. It is impossible to personally confront a big name evangelist – you will not get past her/his front office and any letter/email you send him/her will be filtered through her/his staff. You cannot even locate them in the cities where they minister – they register in hotels under assumed names.

All of this is designed of course, to fend off criticism, shelter the poor millionaire evangelist, and allow them to continue to act badly with impunity.

It’s just that the mainstream media does not respect these barriers and keep digging up dirt about them. Sometimes, people (like in this forum) simply report what the press has uncovered. Others (like in this forum)would prefer to stick their heads in the sand until God has to pull the rug out from under the next religious crook. And He sometimes has to use Gentiles (like Philistines and Babylonians) to bring correction to His people because judgment does not begin in the house of God. The Apsotle said it very clearly to the Corinthian church, who refused to judge their evildoers, when he wrote, “For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged” (1 Cor. 11.31).

~Jim

Well, Jim, you should happy to know that you will mostly never be one of them. You will probably never be a well-known minister with a million dollars. It is possible, you know, that God placed some of them in these positions for His purpose. It might even happen to me some day. If it does, I would imagine there will be a lot of criticism, too.

People have already accused me of promoting myself....

Ann

 

[Andry]

It might even happen to me some day. If it does, I would imagine there will be a lot of criticism, too.

People have already accused me of promoting myself....

Ann

I'll jump right in. I would hope that God would use all of us in a mighty way.

But if you happen to become one those 'big evangelists', why don't we make an arbitrary rule right now: you can double your current salary and stick with it, even if your ministry rakes in hundreds of millions of dollars. Deal?

 

[jiminpa]

I like Joyce.

Now be honest... do you sell all your belongings and give them to the poor? ANd let's be real, it doesn't matter how expensive an item you have, it can still help someone.

Me, no. But did you catch the second sentence?

I'm still waiting for the exact limits as to what is too much, and who gets to decide. So far we know that they can do better than a '66 Bug, but not as well as any Porsche, even if it was a gift. But now I'm confused, becuse a '74 914, if you could still find one running, isn't really as nice as a good condition Bug.

 

[Kebisoni]

I give on a monthly basis to Joyce Meyer - I'm glad she drives a Porsche and lives in a nice house...I know from her teachings she is not attached to these things and God comes first for her always...I hope she enjoys them and they bless her richly.