Joyce Meyer

[lovesblessing]

Here is what I found on Joyce's website....a link to their page concerning financial accountability.....

http://www.joycemeyer.org/projects/FA/fa_info.html



I suggest you check out the audits for 2003 and 2004.....as far as Joyce's house goes, well, let's see.....perhaps you didn't hear her tell about the home the Lord required her and Dave to purchase for her parents.....long before her dad apologized for the hell he put her thru from the time she was 3 yrs old until she was 18 yrs old.....you see, she and Dave made the choice to obey God and give her parents a new house close to them and take care of them.......they sowed seed of a house....why shouldn't she reap a lovely home?

The ministry had at the time they were in Florida this year, given away over 1 million of Joyce's books plus a hygene packs to prisoners, not just in America, but in other countries around the world. One of the ladies who got one of those books was at the Florida meeting this year.....she was so thankful to God for the gift of His truth she received from Joyce's teaching.....it completely changed her life.......got her out of prison in more ways than one! Glory to God!!!!!! You should really do a bit of investigating of what kind of out-reach is being done by her ministry......you might just be amazed!

May God's Amazing Grace be with you....

lovesblessing

PS. I have edited this post because a complaint was posted saying the links embedded in the article I posted originally weren't all working. I thought perhaps there was too many hits and the bandwith had caused a problem.....hence the change to the page link only.

 

[jiminpa]

Thank you, Lovesblessing for bringing some sense to this discussion. I wonder if that will be enough, or if some people would continue to criticize them unless they lived in a cave, and rode bicycles everywhere, (and the bicycles better not be in good shape either).

The catch 22 that Christians like to put ministers in amazes me. The Red Cross takes in billions each year from all over the world, gives out a few million and only when the whole world is watching, yet ministers who take in a few million, and give out most of that, when no one is watching, are criticized endlessly as being greedy.

But then again, what does that have to do with whether Joyce Meyer is WoF or not?

 

[Patrick.D]

The Red Cross takes in billions each year from all over the world, gives out a few million and only when the whole world is watching,

So are you suggesting that the Red Cross is somehow corrupt or dishonest? If so please provide the factual evidence to back that claim up.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Joyce Meyers or any other tele-evangelist should live in a small house with a limited income. I personally believe that if you write books or deliver a television broadcast that reaches millions and in so doing subsequently makes millions of dollars, then you should reap the financial rewards from that. Does JM write books in order to make money or does she do it to genuingly teach people about faith etc....? I would assume it's the latter of the two. However, that doesn't necessarily mean her ministry shouldn't be both held to account or scrutinized, because she could be spending money inappropriately etc.... Not that I'm in any way suggesting she is.

Over here in the UK we have footballers who make up to £90,000+ a week for kicking a ball around on a field. JMM blesses and transforms many peoples lives for the better, so I guess the rewards she recieves, are in many instances justified.

 

[kidsminister]

Ultimately, whether we are talking about her finances or whether or not we agree with her teaching, God will be her judge!

If you don't agree with her teachings, turn the channel when she comes on. If you don't think she handles money well, don't support her.

If she is not of God, then her ministry will eventually crumble, anyway. But if she is one of God's anointed, then I certainly don't want to stand before God and say that I criticized someone that He sent.

 

[JimB]

Here is what I found on Joyce's website....

Dear Friends,

We appreciate this opportunity to provide you with the following financial information. We are honored to be able to show you that we are prudent with the funds that God, through you, has provided to this ministry.

Through your continued partnership we are doing the Lord's work and are able to support nearly 150 national and worldwide ministries and programs as part of our world outreach efforts. We have made available to you a list of these programs.

We work hard to use the money this ministry receives wisely. In 2004, 80% of all unrestricted donations went back out to outreaches and programs directed at reaching people with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

We also encourage you to review the results of our 2003 and 2004 independently audited financial report as reported and submitted by the independent certified public accounting firm, Stanfield & O'Dell, P.C.

Through God’s guidance we reach millions of people each day, helping them accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and to find wholeness through the Word of God.

This ministry (through your support) is working towards a goal of doing the Lord's work in every nation, every city, every day.

Your friends and partners in God's work,

If you do not have Adobe Reader, you will need to download it to view the audited financial reports.


I suggest you check out the audits for 2003 and 2004.....as far as Joyce's house goes, well, let's see.....perhaps you didn't hear her tell about the home the Lord required her and Dave to purchase for her parents.....long before her dad apologized for the hell he put her thru from the time she was 3 yrs old until she was 18 yrs old.....you see, she and Dave made the choice to obey God and give her parents a new house close to them and take care of them.......they sowed seed of a house....why shouldn't she reap a lovely home?

The ministry had at the time they were in Florida this year, given away over 1 million of Joyce's books plus a hygene packs to prisoners, not just in America, but in other countries around the world. One of the ladies who got one of those books was at the Florida meeting this year.....she was so thankful to God for the gift of His truth she received from Joyce's teaching.....it completely changed her life.......got her out of prison in more ways than one! Glory to God!!!!!! You should really do a bit of investigating of what kind of out-reach is being done by her ministry......you might just be amazed!

May God's Amazing Grace be with you....

lovesblessing

Sorry, these links are not exactly “independent”. And anyhow, I can only get one of them to work (the first one). My guess is, however, that these figures are not provided from an independent accounting source and are, in fact, provided by JMM’s own office. In the words of an FBI agent I recently heard, “Figures lie and liars figure”. I am not calling anyone a liar (per se), but I am making the point that, as anyone who works with financial statements knows, figures can be doctored and, unless they come from an independent source, can’t always be trusted.

I am asking Joyce Meyer - and every televangelist - to submit their financial records to the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (www.ecfa.org) or Ministry Watch (www.ministrywatch.com) so that any false charges can forever be identified and corrected, the ministry’s name and reputation can be held in higher esteem, and the IRS will be held at bay and innocent churches and organizations will not be penalized in the coming fallout. When the axe falls on the next big-time ministry it will not just harm them, it will hurt every other Christian. Man, we are still reaping what Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart sowed almost two decades ago. No evangelist lives to himself and no evangelist dies to himself – we are all affected. We are one body and when any part of us is excised, it hurts the rest of us.

So, IMO, the big multi-million dollar ministries who rely on public airwaves and public mail to build religious empires owe it to those of us who provide these services through our democratic government, an explanation of how and to what extent these services are being used. When they refuse, as the ministry in question has, then they should not be surprise – nor should their supporters – when they are suspected of fraud.

~Jim

 

[jiminpa]

Excellent points Kidsminister.

Jim M, some people believe ECFA and Ministry Watch to be privately owned beaurocracies. I don't know enough to have an opinion on that myself, but if a ministry considers them to be too inflexible membership is voluntary. What is wrong with a minister serving his own supporters in the way he says he will, and the supporters doing their homework? JMM doesn't own a frequency so they are not directly accountable to the FCC, the stations airing the programming are, and it is up to those stations to police their programming for compliance. I don't think Joyce is planning on flashing the TV audience any time soon, so I doubt there is any danger there.

 

[jangnim]

whoever you r u need to get saved for real!

First, you have made a very rash statement for which you have absolutely no basis. I love you in Christ and so I must accept that you simply don't know any better, but no one, not one in this world, can judge the heart of another. Only the Spirit within can bear witness to my salvation. I feel sorry for you, especially after you use the following quote.

the word says "touch not thine annointed" u should be careful what u say about the body of christ. joyce is a beautiful woman and she speaks the truth.

Do you not realize that all who are in Christ, partake of His nature? We are all therefore princes in Christ, annointed to our specific gifts and purpose. By attacking me, you also have attacked Gods annointed. Peace be upon you, and I ask the Father to forgive your rash words.

As for JMM actually standing for the truth, I will withhold any judgement, it is between her and God. Everyone sticks up for the whole incorporation thing but I tell you, it is quite easy in any corporation, to draw much greater salary than is expedient. If reaching the masses is so very important to JMM, why do they not live as modest middle class people, channeling that money that they save to the ministry. This is the problem I have with these ministries. Not that they are evil in themselves, but they claim to have a great burden, and yet channel hundreds of thousands of dollars to their own accounts. They claim to want to reach the world for Christ, and yet live in million dollar houses. They live much better than well, and then they baulk when people point this out. I don't fault anyone for having money, but there is an obvious disparity between what they say and what they are doing.

Lets look at the example of Paul. He sat in a Roman prison according to the Bible. Have you ever seen his cell? He was actually in an open sewer when he penned the words of many of the epistles. Was he a man of wealth? Did he manage other peoples money and justify making vast purchases with "the offering". No the Word doesn't say he did. In fact, as a former Pharasee, he had access to vast monetary wealth, yet he lived in squaller as a missionary and then in a Roman Prison. According to WOF he should have been able to pray and be delivered from his misery, yet he never was. Did he enjoy his prison life? I doubt it. It is likely he wanted out, but he accepted that Christ would be better glorified in his imprisonment. To him "to live is Christ, to die is gain"

Please don't get me wrong, WOF has a basis in scripture, but we are in great danger of error when we say God will deliver us from every situation, and will provide our every wish. In point of fact, if the bigger picture were known, we would not ask for a lot of what we wanted at the moment. The Father knows, and uses our every situation to His glory.

I think of Joni Erikson Tada. A lovely woman of 18 struck down and paralyzed by a swimming accident. I know her faith. She prayed for healing but it never came. Why not? Is it her lack of faith? I don't think so. God had a ministry for her, to the handicapped and challenged people of the United States. As a result of her not being healed many laws were enacted to help a previously ignored group. Further, God has used her in many ministries to lead others to the gospel. God put her where she is, to use her. I reserve making this judgement of Joyce, not because her message is bad, it isn't, but because her concern for the masses is not reflected in how she chooses to live, in how much she takes from the ministry for her and her family.

If the masses are so important to her, why not do as Boothe, who began the Salvation Army, and choose to live in poverty (relative to her current situation) and channel that money to the masses. Or how about Wesley, who began the Methodist movement, or St Francis who chose the path of poverty to seek the welfare to the masses. The history of the church is filled with those who gave everything to the fulfillment of the great commission. If this is in fact a mission from God, I simply have to wonder why she feels she can live in the big houses, or drive the fancy cars, or even dress as a wealthy person does.

This is not to say you must be poor to spread the gospel, but if you want to reach the masses with the Word, it does reflect your desire in how you live.

it takes money to get the message to the world, just like it takes money to operate this site. did u donate?

I have actually given to JMM in the past (before I began to see how this and other ministries operate). I believe she can be used of God(but then again so was a talking donkey), but Incorporation has opened the door for her to reap vast amounts of money from the donations of uninformed people. If you read her financials, and you have no issues with them, and you are willing to continue to give, go for it.

As for my giving, normally that is between me and God, but since you made the accusation, I earn well below the poverty level in the United States. I give to my church, to this site, to childrens ministries, to the local mission for the homeless, to the Red Cross, to the food bank, and to various other places as God leads me. My giving is in the range of 10 to 30 percent in an average month, and God takes care of me. I give in love for those in need. Some need salvation, some have physical needs but all have needs. If the church at large did this, there would be no need for mega-ministries at all, in fact they would become nothing.

In the words of Christ, feed the hungry, cloth the naked, care for the poor. If you can say you do these things in love then, maybe, you have the right to judge my harsh words about TV evangelists. Since you brought it up how much of your money goes to the work of God? Please don't feel the need to answer, it is a retorical question.

....And yes, as I said, I did donate to this site. Had you looked at the heading fo my post you would have known that.

I would ask that you prayerfully consider these words. Not for my sake, but for yours. Rash judgement of others is a real issue in the church. I would add that my judgements here are far from rash but based in what I know to be true.

 

[chava]

She's Coming To Columbus Ohio's Nationwide Arena In June And From What I Hear It's Free!!!

 

[jangnim]

Where should ministers take their salary from, the job the have on the side, after they spend all their time ministering the gospel. God's word says not to muzzel the ox. No one would have a problem with God blessing her financially if she was a lawyer or a doctor, but a minister? Well she must be fleecing the flock. Because shepherds are poor.

Okay. But if you claim that the work is so important, then how can you justify either to yourself or the givers living well above the means of a lawyer or doctor?

No shepherds do not have to be poor, but in honesty they should be much more concerned for the people than for their homes. Please read my post above.

 

[JimB]

Excellent points Kidsminister.

Jim M, some people believe ECFA and Ministry Watch to be privately owned beaurocracies. I don't know enough to have an opinion on that myself, but if a ministry considers them to be too inflexible membership is voluntary. What is wrong with a minister serving his own supporters in the way he says he will, and the supporters doing their homework? JMM doesn't own a frequency so they are not directly accountable to the FCC, the stations airing the programming are, and it is up to those stations to police their programming for compliance. I don't think Joyce is planning on flashing the TV audience any time soon, so I doubt there is any danger there.

What is wrong with ministries ‘serving’ (and sometimes defrauding) their supporters using public airwaves (owned by you and me) and the public mail (owned by you and me)? Well, I for one do not want these services used for disreputable purposes.

ECFA a “privately owned beaurocracy"? Hmmm. This is the first time I have ever heard this charge leveled at ECFA. Anyhow, people who want an excuse for not submitting to accountability will find an excuse, any excuse, for not submitting, even if they have to make one up. Anyhow, there are other sources of independent accountability beside these. If they do not willingly submit to some source of reputable accountability, there are always IRS auditors who are waiting in wings for the coming green light (see post #52 above). Then we will hear these obstinate suspect ministries begin to cry for “freedom of religion” (which of course, could mean ‘freedom of deception’) and we will all have to live in the ‘guilt by association’ shadow of their deeds.

Judgment has to begin in the house of God. If we do not judge our evildoers, God will … and it is always embarrassing when He does.

~Jim

 

[JimB]

She's Coming To Columbus Ohio's Nationwide Arena In June And From What I Hear It's Free!!!

Free? How can any ministry that generates $100-million a year be “free”?

I’ve been to a free JMM meeting near Houston. The huge foyer of the large church was crammed with tables loaded with JM books, tapes, videos, and some Jesus junk and holy hardware thrown in and the offering was prolonged and manipulative, so much so that our unchurched married daughter who agreed to go with us, thought it was all a fraud. We were sorry we took her to the meeting. It left a very bad taste in her mouth.

It was free, alright, but it may have cost us in some unseen ways. We'll never attend another JMM fundrasing rally.

~Jim

 

[jangnim]

What is wrong with ministries ‘serving’ (and sometimes defrauding) their supporters using public airwaves (owned by you and me) and the public mail (owned by you and me)? Well, I for one do not want these services used for disreputable purposes.

ECFA a “privately owned beaurocracy"? Hmmm. This is the first time I have ever heard this charge leveled at ECFA. Anyhow, people who want an excuse for not submitting to accountability will find an excuse, any excuse, for not submitting, even if they have to make one up. Anyhow, there are other sources of independent accountability beside these. If they do not willingly submit to some source of reputable accountability, there are always IRS auditors who are waiting in wings for the coming green light (see post #52 above). Then we will hear these obstinate suspect ministries begin to cry for “freedom of religion” (which of course, could mean ‘freedom of deception’) and we will all have to live in the ‘guilt by association’ shadow of their deeds.

Judgment has to begin in the house of God. If we do not judge our evildoers, God will … and it is always embarrassing when He does.

~Jim

 

[janny108]

Thank you, Lovesblessing for bringing some sense to this discussion. I wonder if that will be enough, or if some people would continue to criticize them unless they lived in a cave, and rode bicycles everywhere, (and the bicycles better not be in good shape either).

The catch 22 that Christians like to put ministers in amazes me. The Red Cross takes in billions each year from all over the world, gives out a few million and only when the whole world is watching, yet ministers who take in a few million, and give out most of that, when no one is watching, are criticized endlessly as being greedy.

But then again, what does that have to do with whether Joyce Meyer is WoF or not?

I am aware of the great things that her ministry does. Let's face it, if you were being helped by someone, wouldn't you want them to be in a prosperous way?? I would! Especially if they shared some things as to HOW they got that way? I don't understand how someone could want their ministers to be struggling...

Jan

 

[jiminpa]

I am aware of the great things that her ministry does. I don't understand how someone could want their ministers to be struggling...

Jan

Nope sorry, that's not enough. Ministers can't live in a nicer home than the self-appointed judges of excess in the Christian community, unless they are those ministers who are above reproach, (decided at random). They must drive '66, or older, Bugs that are not in car show condition, ('67-'77 Bugs are too frivalous for a minister of the Gospel). They need to have one or two good outfits to wear on stage, and other than that dress in rags. If someone gives them something of value they must immediately donate it to the Red Cross, so that the Executive Director of that secular non-profit can ask for another $100,000 a year, (but that's okay because the Red Cross is in the same category as minsisters who are randomly deemed beyond reproach). Even though the offering won't even cover the rental of the facility, no other means of funding is permitable, since some heathen might be offended by the message and displace their offense onto the merchandise table. The offering, must be tailored so as to not allow anyone, no matter how hard they look, to call it manipulative.

To further assure compliance with these randomly applied standards, when the ministry is unable to fund itself by these means, the minister must publicly apologize for the mismanagement that caused the ministry to fail and go get a job as far outside of the gifts and calling God gave them as possible, as punishment for not being randomly deemed above reproach.

Remember that these standards may never, under any circumstances, be applied to Billy or Franklin Graham, unless they should randomly lose their standings as beyond reproach, or any secular non-profit organization known to misapropriate funds.

 

[JimB]

Nope sorry, that's not enough. Ministers can't live in a nicer home than the self-appointed judges of excess in the Christian community, unless they are those ministers who are above reproach, (decided at random). They must drive '66, or older, Bugs that are not in car show condition, ('67-'77 Bugs are too frivalous for a minister of the Gospel). They need to have one or two good outfits to wear on stage, and other than that dress in rags. If someone gives them something of value they must immediately donate it to the Red Cross, so that the Executive Director of that secular non-profit can ask for another $100,000 a year, (but that's okay because the Red Cross is in the same category as minsisters who are randomly deemed beyond reproach). Even though the offering won't even cover the rental of the facility, no other means of funding is permitable, since some heathen might be offended by the message and displace their offense onto the merchandise table. The offering, must be tailored so as to not allow anyone, no matter how hard they look, to call it manipulative.

To further assure compliance with these randomly applied standards, when the ministry is unable to fund itself by these means, the minister must publicly apologize for the mismanagement that caused the ministry to fail and go get a job as far outside of the gifts and calling God gave them as possible, as punishment for not being randomly deemed above reproach.

Remember that these standards may never, under any circumstances, be applied to Billy or Franklin Graham, unless they should randomly lose their standings as beyond reproach, or any secular non-profit organization known to misapropriate funds.

Bad analogy, jiminpa. No one wants Joyce to drive around in a worn-out Bug and I have no problem with her earning a living – even a good living – from her work in the ministry. But becoming millionaires with funds from, and at the expense of, people on limited incomes living from hand-to-mouth seems, um, unjust and excessive to me.

I pastor a church. I draw a salary from the church. It is a modest salary because we are a small church. But should the church grow to, say, ten times its present size I would not increase my salary proportionally. I would probably be willing (I hope) to determine my income based on the median salaries of the families in the church or, as some have suggested, based in the median salaries of the professional members of the church. (Which BTW is the policy set by BGEA for Billy and Franklin's salaries - and that's why they are not sweating in the spotlight like some of their less-reputable, money-hiding colleagues.)

But I would be unwise to make more than anyone else in the church and then hide my excess in the financial accounts of the church. Would it be dishonest or immoral for me to make the largest salary in the church? No. But it would be imprudent (aka, stupid) and, IMO, unethical for me to do so. My excess was the product of other people’s sacrifice – many of them far less privileged than I. Why should I expect anyone to sacrifice for my own gluttonous affluence?

And it would sound hollow for me to cry foul when criticism finally arose.

~Jim

 

[victoryword]

Nope sorry, that's not enough. Ministers can't live in a nicer home than the self-appointed judges of excess in the Christian community, unless they are those ministers who are above reproach, (decided at random). They must drive '66, or older, Bugs that are not in car show condition, ('67-'77 Bugs are too frivalous for a minister of the Gospel). They need to have one or two good outfits to wear on stage, and other than that dress in rags. If someone gives them something of value they must immediately donate it to the Red Cross, so that the Executive Director of that secular non-profit can ask for another $100,000 a year, (but that's okay because the Red Cross is in the same category as minsisters who are randomly deemed beyond reproach). Even though the offering won't even cover the rental of the facility, no other means of funding is permitable, since some heathen might be offended by the message and displace their offense onto the merchandise table. The offering, must be tailored so as to not allow anyone, no matter how hard they look, to call it manipulative.

To further assure compliance with these randomly applied standards, when the ministry is unable to fund itself by these means, the minister must publicly apologize for the mismanagement that caused the ministry to fail and go get a job as far outside of the gifts and calling God gave them as possible, as punishment for not being randomly deemed above reproach.

Remember that these standards may never, under any circumstances, be applied to Billy or Franklin Graham, unless they should randomly lose their standings as beyond reproach, or any secular non-profit organization known to misapropriate funds.

That was too funny!!!!

 

[Ann Doupont]

Well, back to the original question. Is Joyce Meyer Word of Faith? Yes, she is. Do I watch her? Yes, sometimes. I've learned a lot through watching and reading what she teaches. Have I given her some financial support? Yes, when the Spirit leads. I believe that we're to give to those ministries who we've learned from.

If we would each simply give to whomever the Spirit directs, and not give when He says not to, we'd do well.

I have noticed that every Word of Faith teacher I've ever heard (and I've heard and/or seen many of them) has a lot of money. It goes along with their doctrine.
Ann

 

[JimB]

Well, back to the original question. Is Joyce Meyer Word of Faith? Yes, she is. Do I watch her? Yes, sometimes. I've learned a lot through watching and reading what she teaches. Have I given her some financial support? Yes, when the Spirit leads. I believe that we're to give to those ministries who we've learned from.

If we would each simply give to whomever the Spirit directs, and not give when He says not to, we'd do well.

I have noticed that every Word of Faith teacher I've ever heard (and I've heard and/or seen many of them) has a lot of money. It goes along with their doctrine.
Ann

Yep, and it is a rather self-serving doctrine isn't it?

You know, Ann, this giving as "the Spirit directs” is too often just a cover for foolish giving and poor stewardship. My poor aunt, for instance, poured thousands of needed dollars into the PTL Club (and especially the scandalous Grand Hotel at Heritage Village, before the whole thing bellied-up because of criminal activity leaving her penniless) will tell you to this day that the “Spirit directed” her to give to what turned out to be a sinful TV pseudo-ministry (as Jim Bakker and Richard Dortch have since confessed it was). Money that God had provided to her for her needs she unwisely sent to manipulative millionaires – then blamed God for it, claiming He told her to do it.

My unfortunate little aunt to this day foolishly blames the Holy Spirit for her own carelessness of stewardship. It is the height presumption to believe that God would lead us to support those very things that nailed His Son to the cross and against which He has firmly warned us in His Word. That is flawed theology in spades.

To this day my aunt refuses to admit that her giving was manipulated and emotional. She fell for a sales pitch and suffers to this day for it.

~Jim

 

[jiminpa]

Bad analogy, jiminpa. No one wants Joyce to drive around in a worn-out Bug and I have no problem with her earning a living – even a good living – from her work in the ministry. But becoming millionaires with funds from, and at the expense of, people on limited incomes living from hand-to-mouth seems, um, unjust and excessive to me.

I pastor a church. I draw a salary from the church. It is a modest salary because we are a small church. But should the church grow to, say, ten times its present size I would not increase my salary proportionally. I would probably be willing (I hope) to determine my income based on the median salaries of the families in the church or, as some have suggested, based in the median salaries of the professional members of the church. (Which BTW is the policy set by BGEA for Billy and Franklin's salaries - and that's why they are not sweating in the spotlight like some of their less-reputable, money-hiding colleagues.)

But I would be unwise to make more than anyone else in the church and then hide my excess in the financial accounts of the church. Would it be dishonest or immoral for me to make the largest salary in the church? No. But it would be imprudent (aka, stupid) and, IMO, unethical for me to do so. My excess was the product of other people’s sacrifice – many of them far less privileged than I. Why should I expect anyone to sacrifice for my own gluttonous affluence?

And it would sound hollow for me to cry foul when criticism finally arose.

~Jim

I notice your problem is with the specifics, and not the idea of placing arbitrary limits on the standard of living of ministers.

 

[JimB]

I notice your problem is with the specifics, and not the idea of placing arbitrary limits on the standard of living of ministers.

It is no secret, jim, where I stand on these flamboyant tele-hucksters (I mention no names! - its the system, not the individuals) with their flashy mail-order credentials (Dr., Bishop, Reverend, Prophet, etc.) who flaunt - along with their ignorance and pretentiousness - their personal affluence in the face of the world and then invent a gospel of prosperity to cover their own greed and self-indulgence. “It works for me and it can work for you, too - You too can be rich if you send me more money.” It’s hard say but anyone who buys in to such a barefaced belief deserves to be broke, as most of their victims are.

IMO.

~Jim