LDS Joseph Smith Started a False Religion

[Jonathan Leo]

It was a long time ago that some of the leaders of the church speculated that the reason that Negroes had dark skin is because they were cursed of God for not being valiant in the pre-existence war against lucifer and his angels.

Jesus had not revealed to them why, and so many put forward their own opinion on the subject and for a time, this was a prevailing thought. It was short lived, however, and since the Lord did not reveal anything more about it, it soon fell out of favor, and was never canonized as official doctrine. We hear very little of that concept today except from anti-Mormons.

Jesus had not revealed to them why, but it does state such in the Book of Mormon does it not?
And weather Jesus did reveal it or not, do Mormons now get to choose what or have an input to how their Book of Mormon is prophecied? Aka pick and choose to change what scripture suits them?

Just came across this,
Twenty-six years ago, in June of 1978, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced the end of its priesthood restrictions regarding African blacks. Since the LDS Church has a lay priesthood, the ban had kept blacks from any leadership positions. One of the foundations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the claim that priesthood is essential to act in God's behalf. In the LDS manual Gospel Principles we read:

We must have [LDS] priesthood authority to act in the name of God when performing the sacred ordinances of the gospel, such as baptism, confirmation, administration of the sacrament, and temple marriage. If a man does not have the priesthood, even though he may be sincere, the Lord will not recognize ordinances he performs (Gospel Principles, published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1995 edition, p. 81).

In addition to this, Mormonism teaches that a person must be married in the temple in order to achieve the highest level of heaven, or eternal life. In Gospel Principles we read:

Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple (p. 297).

However, the priesthood ban on blacks meant that they could not have a temple marriage, thus keeping them from achieving the highest form of eternal life, known as exaltation or godhood. This ban was only enforced on blacks of African ancestry. Such groups as Maori and Fiji Islanders were allowed to hold the LDS priesthood.

 

[Antig]

Yup. On their own planet, surrounded by multiple of wives, popping out kids.

Really?

 

[BigDaddy4]

If this man lost he testimony over this chapter, then he didn't have a testimony to start with. It is a great chapter about the separation of Nephi and his people, and Laman and his people. It does mention metal plates, metal swords, building with some iron and gold and silver, etc. but really a nothingberger in terms of a testimony killer for good active people.
Besides who could know whether Nephi was saying the truth or not about metal?????????????

By the time the spaniards defeated the Incas, some of their entire buildings were made of gold and silver, intricately designed, so the technology was there. In fact the abiltiy to make iron or to harden steel swords was lost when the Nephites went down. So truly if you have a problem with Nephite metal, you have a problem with your testimony, so don't blame it on the metals.

More information is becoming available every day, so stand by.

You really don't get it. It's not necessarily about the metals themselves, it's the fact that these, and other, details are false. The technology simply did not exist at the time. This calls into question the trustworthiness of the source, one who is supposedly from God. Did God lie?

What if Matthew 28:5-7 said "text" instead of "tell":
5The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7Then go quickly and text his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”

The above does not change the spritual message that Jesus is risen. However, a detail within the narrative is obviously impossible since the technology to text did not exist back then. Same if it were to mention motorized vehicles or electricity or any other technology that did not exist when the event was supposed to have taken place. That would call into question the narrative, the narrator, and the validity of the message, especially if it was claimed to be an authoritative writing from God.

Context matters. The BoM fails by very plain evidence (or lack thereof) that large civilizations, millions of people, and certain crops, animals, and metals did not exist in the time and location that God supposedly said it did. Therefore, we can be assured that it did not come from God and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.

 

[Jane_Doe]

So, they still believe that some could end up being a god?

Become one with God and like God. We never replace Him.

The following posts give completely false information and are just slanderous:

No, the teaching is that most Mormons won't. The worthy are the only ones who earn godhood.

Yup. On their own planet, surrounded by multiple of wives, popping out kids.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

If Jesus is the truth,
That means one of us is very wrong,
I’m sticking with the Bible and nothing else,
Although I do believe the book of Enoch explains in very true detail regarding Nephim, planet rotations etc, I will only take the Bible as the figurative word of our Lord and Saviour because
Colossians 1:16
That’s made by Him, through Him, because it’s for. Wait for it. Him!
All glory is for Him, not so we can become like Him and be our own Gods.
Mormon doctrine teaches we get to be like God in return. It’s like it’s a goal and I can see why people are misled by such dangerous doctrine. We have a natural tendency to achieve, obtain, reach, gain etc. and it all tickles people’s ears.

We gain in heaven because it speaks of rewards but the only thing we gain in reality is eternal life as promised, or in other words we escape the judgment of God for being rebellious sinners.
We deserve hell but are saved because of Jesus Christ

 

[Jane_Doe]

You didn’t answer my question,
I’m not asking do lds think African decent are cursed,
I’m asking, is it not in the book of Mormons that black skin is seen as a curse from God?
Straight question
Straight answer, yes or no?

Short answer: No.

Much longer answer:
In modern American lingo someone who is "black" is of African descent. The Book of Mormon doesn't say anything about anyone of African descent. Rather it talks about ancient people in the Americas. There is one verse that refers to one family in the Americas 600 BC and "darkening" of them-- which can interrupted as literal or figurative. And that has nothing to do with their decedents (in fact some of their decedents are great Christians). Again, this has nothing to do with any black people (aka of African descent) or anyone of any race today.

In reference to the ban on African-Americna priests: Joseph Smith did actually ordain black priests and lobbied politically for the end of slavery. This LDS stance actually contributed to the Missouri Governor's Extermination Order, ordering the death of anyone of LDS faith that was found in Missouri (which is where the LDS church population was settled at the time). After people being lynched, properties destroyed, more mob violence, and the entire population forced to relocate hundreds of miles, not once but twice, they came to settle in UT.

In UT it became policy to not ordain any new priests of African descent (with a few exceptions). The origin of this policy is not clear (note: this is all policy, not doctrine). The policy was not grounded in theology, and if you want to claim it reflect racism of the time you won't get any argument (I point there myself). This policy became entrenched. In 1978 it was overturned by the God's word (received via prophetic revelation).

None of this ever had anything to do with anyone not being able to the upmost happy in Heaven with God. The site Utah Lighthouse Ministry lies to you about LDS beliefs.




This is a very involved long story. I could go on much longer, but I'm just thinking you don't want me to write a really long essay on this). Here is a long essay on it Race and the Priesthood and other statements from LDS black folks Why This Web Site - Blacklds.org. Of course I'm happy to answer any questions as well.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Short answer: No.

Much longer answer:
In modern American lingo someone who is "black" is of African descent. The Book of Mormon doesn't say anything about anyone of African descent. Rather it talks about ancient people in the Americas. There is one verse that refers to one family in the Americas 600 BC and "darkening" of them-- which can interrupted as literal or figurative. And that has nothing to do with their decedents (in fact some of their decedents are great Christians). Again, this has nothing to do with any black people (aka of African descent) or anyone of any race today.

In reference to the ban on African-Americna priests: Joseph Smith did actually ordain black priests and lobbied politically for the end of slavery. This LDS stance actually contributed to the Missouri Governor's Extermination Order, ordering the death of anyone of LDS faith that was found in Missouri (which is where the LDS church population was settled at the time). After people being lynched, properties destroyed, more mob violence, and the entire population forced to relocate hundreds of miles, not once but twice, they came to settle in UT.

In UT it became policy to not ordain any new priests of African descent (with a few exceptions). The origin of this policy is not clear (note: this is all policy, not doctrine). The policy was not grounded in theology, and if you want to claim it reflect racism of the time you won't get any argument (I point there myself). This policy became entrenched. In 1978 it was overturned by the God's word (received via prophetic revelation).

None of this ever had anything to do with anyone not being able to the upmost happy in Heaven with God. The site Utah Lighthouse Ministry lies to you about LDS beliefs.




This is a very involved long story. I could go on much longer, but I'm just thinking you don't want me to write a really long essay on this). Here is a long essay on it Race and the Priesthood and other statements from LDS black folks Why This Web Site - Blacklds.org. Of course I'm happy to answer any questions as well.

Alma 3:6

 

[Jane_Doe]

Colossians 1:16
That’s made by Him, through Him, because it’s for. Wait for it. Him!
All glory is for Him,

Amen!

not so we can become like Him and be our own Gods.

Again, LDS believe that God will always be our God, and all glory to Him. LDS belief in the following verses does not absolve these important facts.

• Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father, Matt. 5:48 (3 Ne. 12:48).
  Is it not written in your law … Ye are gods, John 10:34 (Ps. 82; D&C 76:58).
• we are the offspring of God, Acts 17:29.
• heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17.
• changed into the same image from glory to glory, 2 Cor. 3:18.
• if a son, then an heir of God through Christ, Gal. 4:7.
  when he shall appear, we shall be like him, 1 Jn. 3:2.
• him that overcometh will … sit with me in my throne, Rev. 3:21
  

Day to day, LDS folks do strive to follow Christ's example-- yes that is the goal. It's not about getting power or anything like that. Rather, it's about humility to follow the Father will, to love the Lord, and fellow man.

We deserve hell but are saved because of Jesus Christ

Amen!

 

[Peter1000]

Nevertheless, he claimed that multiple "revelations" which contradict the Bible were from God.

You are aware that the bible contradicts itself????????????
We overlook it, because its the bible and we know how writings can be changed and lost and misplaced over millenia of time. But the hard fact still remains, the bible contradicts itself. So if JS contradicts the bible on occasion, that should not be a fatal error. Besides, if God wants to tell JS something that he did not tell the first century church, what is that to you.

Does God have to go back to the original bible and fact check to see if He said it there before He can say it in 1830????

You must remember that Paul said that he could not teach the people the meat of the gospel, but only the milk. It was because they would not believe him. (see 1 Corinthians 3:2)

 

[Peter1000]

Amen!

Again, LDS believe that God will always be our God, and all glory to Him. LDS belief in the following verses does not absolve these important facts.

• Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father, Matt. 5:48 (3 Ne. 12:48).
  Is it not written in your law … Ye are gods, John 10:34 (Ps. 82; D&C 76:58).
• we are the offspring of God, Acts 17:29.
• heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17.
• changed into the same image from glory to glory, 2 Cor. 3:18.
• if a son, then an heir of God through Christ, Gal. 4:7.
  when he shall appear, we shall be like him, 1 Jn. 3:2.
• him that overcometh will … sit with me in my throne, Rev. 3:21

Day to day, LDS folks do strive to follow Christ's example-- yes that is the goal. It's not about getting power or anything like that. Rather, it's about humility to follow the Father will, to love the Lord, and fellow man.

Amen!

I would like to add to your scriptures, one scripture I really like regarding this subject:
2 Peter 1:4King James Version (KJV)
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

As the bible says we may be partakers of the 'divine nature'. The same 'divine nature' that God the Father and His Son Jesus has.

 

[Randy777]

I’m glad that all of you have studied the critics of the church to find out the truth about Mormonism. I always find it humorous that so many experts claim superior knowledge of Mormonism than those who read study and pray about the restored gospel. It is no different than conservatives differences than liberIals. You can claim the Joseph Smith made the whole thing up but he was murdered because of those beliefs. He gave himself up willingly into the shame and he knew it. He did not have to give himself and he could have moved out west where he forethought led the saints would go. Out of the restoration through which God worked through Joseph Smith we have the Book of Mormon, doctrine and covenants and pearl of great price. You can scoff and be critical but you do not know that you are any more correct than we are. You don’t have any original writings of the Bible and have to have faith that what is in there is from God. No proof that Jesus ever existed from the An Kent writings. You take it on faith. Give us the same privilege

No proof Jesus existed? How can one have the Spirit of Christ in them and Not know He lives? You are outside of the faith.

 

[Randy777]

You are aware that the bible contradicts itself????????????
We overlook it, because its the bible and we know how writings can be changed and lost and misplaced over millenia of time. But the hard fact still remains, the bible contradicts itself. So if JS contradicts the bible on occasion, that should not be a fatal error. Besides, if God wants to tell JS something that he did not tell the first century church, what is that to you.

Does God have to go back to the original bible and fact check to see if He said it there before He can say it in 1830????

You must remember that Paul said that he could not teach the people the meat of the gospel, but only the milk. It was because they would not believe him. (see 1 Corinthians 3:2)

Hebrews
1In the past God spoke to “our ancestors” through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by “his Son”

 

[Peter1000]

Yup. On their own planet, surrounded by multiple of wives, popping out kids.

How do you pop out a spiritual being????

 

[Peter1000]

Hebrews
1In the past God spoke to “our ancestors” through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by “his Son”

Explain how this scripture responds to my post?

 

[Peter1000]

Really?

Don't believe it Antig, that is how anti Mormons take advantage of a genuine doctrine.

 

[Rescued One]

You are aware that the bible contradicts itself????????????
We overlook it, because its the bible and we know how writings can be changed and lost and misplaced over millenia of time. But the hard fact still remains, the bible contradicts itself. So if JS contradicts the bible on occasion, that should not be a fatal error. Besides, if God wants to tell JS something that he did not tell the first century church, what is that to you.

Does God have to go back to the original bible and fact check to see if He said it there before He can say it in 1830????

You must remember that Paul said that he could not teach the people the meat of the gospel, but only the milk. It was because they would not believe him. (see 1 Corinthians 3:2)

The meat isn't Mormon temple ordinances and covenants. You don't need to harp on that in order to promote Joseph Smith's false teachings.

 

[Peter1000]

No proof Jesus existed? How can one have the Spirit of Christ in them and Not know He lives? You are outside of the faith.

Randy, read his post. He said that there is no proof that Jesus existed from the An Kent writings.
If fatboy were challenged at gun point to deny that Jesus lives or be put to death, he would say pull the trigger. So do not play around with "you are outside the faith". He isn't.

 

[Peter1000]

The meat isn't Mormon temple ordinances and covenants. You don't need to harp on that in order to promote Joseph Smith's false teachings.

That is exactly what the meat of the gospel is. A higher standard set for those who wanted more than just the milk. Paul could not give it to them, nor the other apostles, because the people would not receive it. IOW the people would have not believed Paul, and may have left the church out of disbelief.

The bible for the most part is "milk". Only a few scriptures give us insights that there is more. It is very obscure, but the meat was not given in it's fullness, because of the disbelief of the people.

 

[Rescued One]

Jesus had not revealed to them why, but it does state such in the Book of Mormon does it not?
And weather Jesus did reveal it or not, do Mormons now get to choose what or have an input to how their Book of Mormon is prophecied? Aka pick and choose to change what scripture suits them?

Just came across this,
Twenty-six years ago, in June of 1978, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced the end of its priesthood restrictions regarding African blacks. Since the LDS Church has a lay priesthood, the ban had kept blacks from any leadership positions. One of the foundations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the claim that priesthood is essential to act in God's behalf. In the LDS manual Gospel Principles we read:

We must have [LDS] priesthood authority to act in the name of God when performing the sacred ordinances of the gospel, such as baptism, confirmation, administration of the sacrament, and temple marriage. If a man does not have the priesthood, even though he may be sincere, the Lord will not recognize ordinances he performs (Gospel Principles, published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1995 edition, p. 81).

In addition to this, Mormonism teaches that a person must be married in the temple in order to achieve the highest level of heaven, or eternal life. In Gospel Principles we read:

Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple (p. 297).

However, the priesthood ban on blacks meant that they could not have a temple marriage, thus keeping them from achieving the highest form of eternal life, known as exaltation or godhood. This ban was only enforced on blacks of African ancestry. Such groups as Maori and Fiji Islanders were allowed to hold the LDS priesthood.

I'll provide a few minor corrections. First, you are doing good to use Gospel Principles as a source.

The only reference to priesthood in the Book of Mormon that I recall is 2 Nephi 5:
26 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did consecrate Jacob and Joseph, that they should be priests and teachers over the land of my people.

However, the Book of Mormon contains some racial overtones and the Mormons now like to reinterpret them:


Book of Mormon

1. 1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary) ". . . she was exceedingly fair and white."
2. 1 Nephi 12:23 (Prophecy of Lamanites after Christ) ". . . became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations."
3. 1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles) ". . . they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain."
4. 2 Nephi 5:21 ". . . a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
5. 2 Nephi 30:6 (Prophecy to Lamanites) ". . . scales of darkness shall begin to fall . . . they shall be a white and delightsome people." (Changed to pure and delightsome in 1981)
6. Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed) ". . .whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins. . ."
7. Jacob 3:8-9 ". . .their skins will be whiter than yours . . . revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins . . ."
8. Alma 3:6 ". . . skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion. . ."
9. Alma 3:8 (Cursed) ". . .that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren . . .that they might not mix . . ."
10. Alma 3:9 ". . . whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed."
11. Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed) ". . . set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed. . ."
12. Alma 3:19 (Amlicites cursed) ". . . brought upon themselves the curse ..."
13. Alma 23:18 ". . . [Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites] and the curse of God did no more follow them."
14. 3 Nephi 2:14-16 ". . . Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites . . . became exceedingly fair . . ."
15. 3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) ". . . they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof . . . they were white, even as Jesus."
16. Mormon 5:15 (Prophecy about Lamanites) ". . .shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us . . ."
17. Mormon 5:17 "They were once a delightsome people . . ."

Pearl of Great Price

1. Moses 7:8 ". . . a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan . . ."
2. Moses 7:12 ". . . Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were [except] the people of Canaan, to repent . . ."
3. Moses 7:22 ". . . for the seed of Cain were black and had not place among them."
4. Abraham 1:21 ". . . king of Egypt [Pharaoh] was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth."
5. Abraham 1:27 ". . . Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood . . ."
6. Wildly Racial Slurs in Mormon Scriptures

2 Nephi 30:6 used to read:

“…their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.”

In 1981, the word white in that verse was changed to pure:
“…their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and a delightsome people.”

 

[Rescued One]

That is exactly what the meat of the gospel is. A higher standard set for those who wanted more than just the milk. Paul could not give it to them, nor the other apostles, because the people would not receive it. IOW the people would have not believed Paul, and may have left the church out of disbelief.

The bible for the most part is "milk". Only a few scriptures give us insights that there is more. It is very obscure, but the meat was not given in it's fullness, because of the disbelief of the people.

No, no, no. You can promote that till doomsday and never believe the truth, but truth will stand on Judgment Day.