LDS Joseph Smith Started a False Religion

[Rescued One]

“Chapter 19: Eternal Life,” Doctrines of the Gospel Teacher Manual (), 67–69
Those who make their calling and election sure inherit eternal life.
Chapter 19: Eternal Life

• “After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, ‘Son, thou shalt be exalted.’ When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure” (Smith, Teachings, 150).

• “The elect of God comprise a very select group, an inner circle of faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They are the portion of church members who are striving with all their hearts to keep the fulness of the gospel law in this life so that they can become inheritors of the fulness of gospel rewards in the life to come” (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 217).
  Chapter 19: Eternal Life

Mormons who claim they are saved by faith without works are speaking of immortality and they don't want non-members to know that they get immortality whether Mormon or non-Mormon. But guess what --- they don't have eternal life unless they earn it.

 

[Rescued One]

Nope.

Mobs have been bursting into LDS congregations for decades now and to my knowledge not a single national-level news outlet has batted an eyelash.

Egomaniac in heels wants to "march" on a church building? Let's bring out the helicopters!

Dozens of people storming into everyday LDS meetings to intimidate everyone and make sure that services can't be held? Less important than the weekend snooker tournament.

Why should anyone believe you? Doesn't the Church News know about it? You love to say that non-Mormons are wicked.

 

[Rescued One]

That is certainly a "different" gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). The Bible clearly states that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Yet in the Book of Mormon in 2 Nephi 25:23, we read - For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

You certainly know a lot about Mormonism.

“Immortality has been accomplished by the Savior’s sacrifice. Eternal life hangs in the balance awaiting the works of men.”
Spencer W. Kimball(12th LDS prophet), The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 208

 

[BigDaddy4]

Nope.

Mobs have been bursting into LDS congregations for decades now and to my knowledge not a single national-level news outlet has batted an eyelash.

Egomaniac in heels wants to "march" on a church building? Let's bring out the helicopters!

Dozens of people storming into everyday LDS meetings to intimidate everyone and make sure that services can't be held? Less important than the weekend snooker tournament.

Do you have references that these things actually happened? Or more fake news that can't be substantiated?

 

[Ironhold]

Do you have references that these things actually happened? Or more fake news that can't be substantiated?

One of my brothers had it happen to a congregation he was at.

In that case, the mob made a very significant miscalculation. You see, the town in question was noted for two things: its state prison, and its college's famed criminal justice program. When the mob wouldn't leave on their own, the bishop in charge invited all of the men in the congregation to stand up and begin singing hymns. This allowed the mob to see that they were both outnumbered and outclassed, the result of most of the men being law enforcement, military, or corrections. It was at this point that the mob crawled on out while they still could.

 

[BigDaddy4]

From this:

Mobs have been bursting into LDS congregations for decades now and to my knowledge not a single national-level news outlet has batted an eyelash.

Egomaniac in heels wants to "march" on a church building? Let's bring out the helicopters!

Dozens of people storming into everyday LDS meetings to intimidate everyone and make sure that services can't be held? Less important than the weekend snooker tournament.

To this:

One of my brothers had it happen to a congregation he was at.

In that case, the mob made a very significant miscalculation. You see, the town in question was noted for two things: its state prison, and its college's famed criminal justice program. When the mob wouldn't leave on their own, the bishop in charge invited all of the men in the congregation to stand up and begin singing hymns. This allowed the mob to see that they were both outnumbered and outclassed, the result of most of the men being law enforcement, military, or corrections. It was at this point that the mob crawled on out while they still could.

Just as I thought, more overblown hyperbole. From "decades" to one, unsubstantiated case.

 

[Ironhold]

So because I only provide the one immediate example you only assume it's ever only happened once?

Seriously?

 

[Rescued One]

So because I only provide the one immediate example you only assume it's ever only happened once?

Seriously?

It doesn't matter how many times you claim it happened if you have no evidence to support your claim. Furthermore, it is off-topic to the OP.

 

[mmksparbud]

How is this statement not hugely arrogant?

Should I walk into a Baptist church and tell everyone there that I know what Baptists believe better than Baptists? Or tell a Methodists "well, you don't really believe that. Here's what you really believe..." Oh yeah, and don't forget do this all while saying "I'm the real Christian here, you should be just like me".

No. Just no.

But that is true. The poster also said that it holds true of most churches .Some people do not delve deep into their religion and that holds true even in my own church. Some simply do not want to, some just don't like or have the time to do a lot of in depth study. The difference between them and those of Mormonism, is that they are taught in such a way that the church does not go into the details until much later. It is done on purpose. They present only what is mainstream Christianity with just a couple of different things---it seems that it can even take many years before they get to the whole truth---some have been in it for over 20 years before they get to the real core of their believes! It's let's get them in here--worry about the details later. With other Christian churches, there will be things that they can go into deeper on their own, but the churches do not hide their real believes, they are presented, usually with pride because this is what makes them different though still scriptural. With Mormonism, they just hide those real differences until much later. Other churches will start with the differences to others, not the similarities.

Phoebe--wasn't it you that was out of the church for years, and then found something you hadn't known, even though you had been in it for years?

Even in here---when I first started looking into their believes, the Mormons on here would constantly be directing away from the differences and wanting to talk only about the similarities. It took a lot of digging and Phoebe led the way to finding the real, much hidden and very glossed over truths. They like to word things in such a way that seems to sound like Christianity, until you really scratch the surface.

 

[mmksparbud]

So because I only provide the one immediate example you only assume it's ever only happened once?

Seriously?

Seriously?? You will only present---in some town---no name of the town, not even the state, no mention of the actual date, nothing that in any way can be looked up to verify. Having been in the medical field, one thing was always drummed into us---write it down! If you have not documented, it has not happened. Period. Don't expect me or anyone else, to believe that something like that happened, and nobody knows about it but you and a brother of yours. Synagogues have been broken into and vandalized, Baptist churches, mosques---it gets mentioned in the news with the details --- you are the only church in the world that gets broken into and nobody notices---Seriously?? I have seen newspaper articles that presented a few break-ins---with all the details. A few---the Jews and black church's have been broken into and even burned to the ground many, many, many more times than any of yours. Disgusting violence such as that is abhorrent--to any religious organization---you do not win the lottery on that one, so far, it's the Jews and blacks---unless you live in a Muslim country--any Christian church will do there.

 

[BigDaddy4]

So because I only provide the one immediate example you only assume it's ever only happened once?

Seriously?

Seriously? Aren't you in the newspaper business? Aren't you guys supposed to do some fact-checking of sources before reporting things? You've bragged about your journalistic and academic "standards" more than a few times on these forums. Perhaps you should follow your own advice instead of posting overblown hyperbole and projecting one instance of an event that only you know about as a commonality.

Until you can substantiate your claims, they are meaningless.

 

[Peter1000]

I've never met a pastor who would organize an angry mob ---- NEVER!

You have never been in Salt Lake City at church conference time. There is a place set aside for pastors and their followers who scream at Mormons going to the meetings. They scream obscene things and they some times become an unruly mob. No murders yet, but very unkind and very unChristian.

 

[Peter1000]

Are you kidding? I've been here almost fifteen years. All I've ever seen are ambiguous answers.

Phoebe Ann, you know very well that many of your posts are ambiguous too, so don't start pointing fingers. Let's be nice.

 

[Peter1000]

Seriously? Aren't you in the newspaper business? Aren't you guys supposed to do some fact-checking of sources before reporting things? You've bragged about your journalistic and academic "standards" more than a few times on these forums. Perhaps you should follow your own advice instead of posting overblown hyperbole and projecting one instance of an event that only you know about as a commonality.

Until you can substantiate your claims, they are meaningless.

I suspect if she substantiated 10 different events, you would comb through it and come up with, "they were meaningless".

Besides like Phoebe Ann says, this is off topic.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I suspect if she substantiated 10 different events, you would comb through it and come up with, "they were meaningless".

Besides like Phoebe Ann says, this is off topic.

Anything would be better than the current offering of evidence.

Btw, I suspect Ironhold would like to be referred to as a "he" rather than a "she".

 

[Peter1000]

Anything would be better than the current offering of evidence.

Btw, I suspect Ironhold would like to be referred to as a "he" rather than a "she".

Your right, sorry Ironhold.

 

[Randy777]

And so you relate the birth of a mortal baby to popping out spiritual beings?????

Define spiritual being in what context do you ask the question?

 

[Peter1000]

Define spiritual being in what context do you ask the question?

A spiritual being is one that is referred to in the scriptures, when it says:
Acts 17:27-29King James Version (KJV)
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Our mortal bodies are not the offspring of God, for our mortal bodies are the offspring of our mortal parents.

So when it says that we are the offspring of God, what does that mean? It means that our eternal spirit inside of us is the offspring of God, He is the one that brought forth our spirit before the earth was created. Our spirit is the offspring of God, and our personal spirit is placed inside our mortal body sometime during the birth process.

 

[Rescued One]

You have never been in Salt Lake City at church conference time. There is a place set aside for pastors and their followers who scream at Mormons going to the meetings. They scream obscene things and they some times become an unruly mob. No murders yet, but very unkind and very unChristian.

And they are NOT Christians no matter what they claim. Christians condemn that sort of behavior. Pastors indeed! (sarcasm)

 

[Randy777]

A spiritual being is one that is referred to in the scriptures, when it says:
Acts 17:27-29King James Version (KJV)
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Our mortal bodies are not the offspring of God, for our mortal bodies are the offspring of our mortal parents.

So when it says that we are the offspring of God, what does that mean? It means that our eternal spirit inside of us is the offspring of God, He is the one that brought forth our spirit before the earth was created. Our spirit is the offspring of God, and our personal spirit is placed inside our mortal body sometime during the birth process.

We are spirit in the tent of a human body. The body, other than adam and eve, is by biology. The spirit formed by God. There is no teaching that we (our spirits)were formed outside the womb. Jesus would be the only exception as the Son that was, His Spirit, was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him as Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person,

Our spirits did not preexist our body.

At the resurrection we get new bodies not of the dust off the earth. As flesh and blood can't inherit eternality. As dwelling in a everlasting kingdom that can't be destroyed.

The New Jerusalem is the end result dwelling place for the children of God.