Jonah and Holy Communion

[GregConstantine]

You recognised who he was referring to though.

We speak a lot of languages. We mostly post in English.

Be aware though of the history of this poster. You'll need to look back at his previous posts regarding the sabbath that is borderline Judaizing. I believe his spelling of Jonah in the Hebrew way is a subtle way of continuing this.

We may speak a lot of languages, but this is an English speaking forum. The fact that we may or may not speak many other languages other than English is immaterial to that.

English speaking countries are exactly that, English speaking countries (of which the majority of commentators here are residing in), we are not the United Nations.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Be aware though of the history of this poster. You'll need to look back at his previous posts regarding the sabbath that is borderline Judaizing. I believe his spelling of Jonah in the Hebrew way is a subtle way of continuing this.

We may speak a lot of languages, but this is an English speaking forum. The fact that we may or may not speak many other languages other than English is immaterial to that.

English speaking countries are exactly that, English speaking countries (of which the majority of commentators here are residing in), we are not the United Nations.

Yes Greggy, we all know you are the head sherriff of the Eastern Orthodox Judaizing Police Squad here on TAW. You are the Eastern Orthodox counterpart to the Orthodox Jewish Torah police. We all feel so safe now LOL.

http://www.organicseomarketing.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/penguin-sherriff.jpg

 

[~Anastasia~]

C'mon, folks, we just celebrated Pascha.

And we know that many of us among Orthodoxy come from varied ethnic backgrounds and ethnic parishes. In this forum we frequently see Greek and Russian posted.

 

[GregConstantine]

C'mon, folks, we just celebrated Pascha.

And we know that many of us among Orthodoxy come from varied ethnic backgrounds and ethnic parishes. In this forum we frequently see Greek and Russian posted.

Again consider the whole background, not just isolated posts. While we may say Christ is risen to each other in different languages, we don't for example, use a Greek spelling or a Slavonic letter superimposed onto an English word in conversation.

 

[prodromos]

I personally do not have a problem with it.

 

[GregConstantine]

I personally do not have a problem with it.

That's nice, good for you. But, others here do. He has been reported in the past and has been this time as well.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That's nice, good for you. But, others here do. He has been reported in the past and has been this time as well.

LOL, reported for what? that YOU get mad because I use a Hebrew spelling? Get over yourself Greg...don't you have anything better to do?

 

[Anhelyna]

OK guys - let's drop it now please

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

OK guys - let's drop it now please

As usual I did not start it...

 

[Kristos]

Back to the OP. At first it seems reasonable, but if you go back and read the book of Jonah, not so much. The act of swallowing by the fish is not even a whole sentence, it basically just says he was swallowed and that's it. Then immediately the canticle of Jonah begins and the imagery of Sheol is brought in explicitly for a whole chapter. Yes, Jonah was a type of Christ but in this story the typology refers to his descent into Hades (the belly of the whale). I wouldn't extrapolate the type or insert the fish acrostic when the story itself is already pretty clear on what it means. Also, the word used in the LXX is ketos, which is more of a large sea monster, or whale - not ichthys, fish, as in the acrostic.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Back to the OP. At first it seems reasonable, but if you go back and read the book of Jonah, not so much. The act of swallowing by the fish is not even a whole sentence, it basically just says he was swallowed and that's it. Then immediately the canticle of Jonah begins and the imagery of Sheol is brought in explicitly for a whole chapter. Yes, Jonah was a type of Christ but in this story the typology refers to his descent into Hades (the belly of the whale). I wouldn't extrapolate the type or insert the fish acrostic when the story itself is already pretty clear on what it means. Also, the word used in the LXX is ketos, which is more of a large sea monster, or whale - not ichthys, fish, as in the acrostic.

The Hebrew text says "dag gadol" (great fish) while the LXX translated that into "mega ketos".

 

[All4Christ]

the LXX translated that into "mega ketos".

With ketos meaning big fish (sea monster in mythology), and mega meaning "huge"

 

[Kristos]

The Hebrew text says "dag gadol" (great fish) while the LXX translated that into "mega ketos".

Yes. The point being that it is not ichthys. If it was, then it might be possible to draw a parallel or type, but it's not. That was the only reason I brought it up.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I just checked, and every English translation of the Bible I looked at translates the word as fish.

How does the Eastern Orthodox Bible translate it into English?

 

[All4Christ]

I just checked, and every English translation of the Bible I looked at translates the word as fish.

How does the Eastern Orthodox Bible translate it into English?

The OSB translates it as a "huge sea creature". The EOB is only NT and Psalms unfortunately!

(Also, in the Septuagint, its Jonah 2:1, not 1:17)

1 Now the Lord commanded a huge sea creature to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the sea creature three days and three nights.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Does the Septuagint mention the word for whale anywhere?

 

[All4Christ]

Does the Septuagint mention the word for whale anywhere?

μέγα κῆτος=μεγάλῳ καταπιεῖν (With a different grammar tense)

ΚΑΙ προσέταξε Κύριος κήτει μεγάλῳ καταπιεῖν τὸν ᾿Ιωνᾶν· καὶ ἦν ᾿Ιωνᾶς ἐν τῇ κοιλίᾳ τοῦ κήτους τρεῖς ἡμέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας.


μεγάλῳ καταπιεῖν = huge fish, huge sea monster, huge whale

ETA: I started this awhile ago and just realized you erased your message...if you want me to delete this I can).

 

[LivingWordUnity]

μέγα κῆτος=μεγάλῳ καταπιεῖν (With a different grammar tense)

ΚΑΙ προσέταξε Κύριος κήτει μεγάλῳ καταπιεῖν τὸν ᾿Ιωνᾶν· καὶ ἦν ᾿Ιωνᾶς ἐν τῇ κοιλίᾳ τοῦ κήτους τρεῖς ἡμέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας.


μεγάλῳ καταπιεῖν = huge fish, huge sea monster, huge whale

ETA: I started this awhile ago and just realized you erased your message...if you want me to delete this I can).

I deleted it because I wondered if there was a point to the question.

But I just put it back since you took the time to comment on it.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

So it can be translated as huge fish, huge sea monster, or huge whale?

Did the early Church fathers comment on it? If so, did they believe that it was a fish?

 

[Kristos]

I just checked, and every English translation of the Bible I looked at translates the word as fish.

How does the Eastern Orthodox Bible translate it into English?

Looks like most English translations based on the Hebrew Masoretic text translate it as fish. If you look at English translations of the NT, specifically Matthew 12:40 where the verses from Jonah are quoted, you get some "great fish", some "whale" and some "sea monster". Matthew's quote of Jonah uses ketos (like the LXX OT), which is translated into English as above. I checked Strong's and it doesn't look like that word is used anywhere else in the NT, where ichthys is used 20 times, several times by Matthew.