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John 3:36 = Clarity

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BBAS 64

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MbiaJc said:
You cannot put the ones God desires to save and the ones He gives to His Son in the same basket, because they won't fit. It is God's desire to save all.

Good day, MbiaJc

The scripture is quite clear, the only ones raised up are those that are given to the Son by the hand of the Father.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.


If as you posit "It is God's desire to save all" This is clearly an assertion on your part. a couple of questions:

1. What does God lack in order to forfill his desire?
2. Does God spend all of eterity "unhappy" because his desires are un forfilled?
3. What would stop God from getting what he wants?
4. How hard does God work to see his desires forfilled?

Peace to u,

Bill
 
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SumTinWong

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BBAS 64 said:

1. What does God lack in order to forfill his desire?
God does not lack anything as His sacrafice was perfect. Let's put it this way. As a father you have two children. It is your desire to raise your children in a certain manner. You provide clothing, a chance at a great education, and bring them up in a church where they can hear the good news of the Gospel. You even set up a college fund so that when ready your kids can get the best education. It is your will that they grow up to be succesful adults and you have provided every opportunity for this.

One of your kids rebels from the start and doesn't want to have anything to do with your plan, and runs away from home, gets into trouble and lands in jail.

Now it was your will and desire to provide every advantage for these kids, but the one kid would not go along with what you willed.

God has provided every opportunity for every person to become a part of the kingdom. That is His will. But just like the rebellious kid, not everyone will follow the program.

2. Does God spend all of eterity "unhappy" because his desires are un forfilled?
Depends on if you think God is a half empty of half full God. I am sure God will be glad for the ones who have accepted this gift, and be sad for those who would not, the same way the father would be if one kid ruined his life like explained above.

3. What would stop God from getting what he wants?
Man not turning to Him for salvation.

4. How hard does God work to see his desires forfilled?
Well let's see, He came down to this planet in the form of His own creation, lived a righteous life, was ridiculed by everyone who pretended to know God, taught about love, healed people, warned people of judgement, was scourged, beaten, hung on a cross, died, and was raised on the third day. Seems to me He worked pretty hard...
 
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Lockheed

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Uncle Bud said:
God does not lack anything as His sacrafice was perfect. Let's put it this way. As a father you have two children. It is your desire to raise your children in a certain manner. You provide clothing, a chance at a great education, and bring them up in a church where they can hear the good news of the Gospel. You even set up a college fund so that when ready your kids can get the best education. It is your will that they grow up to be succesful adults and you have provided every opportunity for this.

What if instead your servants (since one is not a child of God unless they're adopted into His family), from the moment they came out of the womb rebelled against you, fought against you and denied your authority. They were your enemies in word and deed from the first day to the last.

Yet you continued to provide for these miserable loathing servants... food, clothing, shelter and life for them, and yet they still rebelled.

This is a much more accurate picture of humanity in the eyes of God.

Finally these servants murdered your only Son who you sent as a final messenger. But, in so doing, your Son CHOSE to pay for the misdeeds of those who would believe in Him, those whom God chose to save out of all those rebellious ones, not because they deserved it, but because God is gracious.

See the problem here? In your story the kids are neutral toward the Father, yet in the Bible we are "enemies" of God and are "hostile" toward Him.

One of your kids rebels from the start and doesn't want to have anything to do with your plan, and runs away from home, gets into trouble and lands in jail.

All of them do. ;)

Now it was your will and desire to provide every advantage for these kids, but the one kid would not go along with what you willed.

Just one, Adam, who represented us all.

God has provided every opportunity for every person to become a part of the kingdom.

God has provided every opportunity to explain His attributes and expectations, aka the Law.

That is His will. But just like the rebellious kid, not everyone will follow the program.
Like the rebellious kid we are all "children of wrath" just like the rest.

Depends on if you think God is a half empty of half full God. I am sure God will be glad for the ones who have accepted this gift, and be sad for those who would not, the same way the father would be if one kid ruined his life like explained above.

But the God of the Bible didn't just offer the kid a chance out of jail. He took uncaring, rebellious servants and adopted them into His family, not because of something they did, but because He was gracious.

Man not turning to Him for salvation.

"No one seeks for God."


Well let's see, He came down to this planet in the form of His own creation, lived a righteous life, was ridiculed by everyone who pretended to know God, taught about love, healed people, warned people of judgement, was scourged, beaten, hung on a cross, died, and was raised on the third day. Seems to me He worked pretty hard...

Not according to your beliefs, since God cannot save those whom He wants to save...
 
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