John 3:13

[KCDAD]

So much for Elijah ...2Kings 2:11

No one has ascended in to heaven except... the Son of Man.

What do Bible literalists make of this?

 

[Catherineanne]

So much for Elijah ...2Kings 2:11

No one has ascended in to heaven except... the Son of Man.

What do Bible literalists make of this?

No idea.

Gave up trying to work out their reasoning long ago. It appears to be based on the same premise as mine; believe what you can, discard the rest, only with a kind of doublethink that what they believe is all of it, and what they discard does not exist.

So, on that basis, either they believe both, or else one simply does not exist on a level that can enter their consciousness. Like the second creation story in Genesis.

 

[Soul Searcher]

So much for Elijah ...2Kings 2:11

No one has ascended in to heaven except... the Son of Man.

What do Bible literalists make of this?

Not being a literalist I have no idea, but this verse [John 3:13] could very well be talking about all men.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[KCDAD]

OK, if we can't make anything out of it literally, what are to make of the Elijah story?

 

[Emmy]

Dear KCDAD, Elijah ascended in to Heaven, and Malachi says in chapter 4, verses 5 and 6, that Elijah comes again before the great and dreaful Day Day of the Lord. I believe the Orthodox Jews believe that will be the Day when the Messiah comes. Christians believe it will be the 2nd coming of Christ. I do not know what John meant, when he said no one. I say this humbly and kindly, ILoveChrist, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Dear KCDAD, Elijah ascended in to Heaven, and Malachi says in chapter 4, verses 5 and 6, that Elijah comes again before the great and dreaful Day Day of the Lord. I believe the Orthodox Jews believe that will be the Day when the Messiah comes. Christians believe it will be the 2nd coming of Christ. I do not know what John meant, when he said no one. I say this humbly and kindly, ILoveChrist, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

hmm.. It would appear that those who are waiting for Elijah have missed it.

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. [the baptist]
Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come.

Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

It appears to me that Elijah comes before the day of the Lord... John the baptist came before the day of the Lord. This event would seem to be already past.

 

[KCDAD]

Dear KCDAD, Elijah ascended in to Heaven, and Malachi says in chapter 4, verses 5 and 6, that Elijah comes again before the great and dreaful Day Day of the Lord. I believe the Orthodox Jews believe that will be the Day when the Messiah comes. Christians believe it will be the 2nd coming of Christ. I do not know what John meant, when he said no one. I say this humbly and kindly, ILoveChrist, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

Jesus said it as recorded by John. You certainly aren't calling Jesus or John liars are you?

 

[Soul Searcher]

Aren't we all the son of man ?

 

[KCDAD]

Aren't we all the son of man ?

No... we are all sons of ...

... women.

 

[Soul Searcher]

No... we are all sons of ...

... women.

 

[ShortCircuit]

No idea.

Gave up trying to work out their reasoning long ago. It appears to be based on the same premise as mine; believe what you can, discard the rest, only with a kind of doublethink that what they believe is all of it, and what they discard does not exist.

So, on that basis, either they believe both, or else one simply does not exist on a level that can enter their consciousness. Like the second creation story in Genesis.

I am curious??? where is a second creation story found?

 

[KCDAD]

Starting with Genesis 2:4-9

Details differ like where is woman? She isn't created with man. She is created some time later after man names all the animals and gets lonely.

 

[Catherineanne]

I am curious??? where is a second creation story found?

In Genesis. There are two separate creation stories, side by side, and mutually incompatible.

Ergo, you cannot believe both as literal historical descriptions, but you can regard them as what they are; two different creation stories, of much older date than the writing which contains them, as is the story of Noah, and many other nuggets within the OT. And both containing truth, but of a spiritual kind rather than historical kind.

The mythologies from which they derive are older than Judaism. However, at this point I get vague, and would have to search a reference text to find where they actually come from, and which culture they represent.

But history they ain't. Not in the sense that we understand the word.

 

[Emmy]

Dear KCDAD, perhaps John meant: no man has ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, and Jesus was the only one who STAYED in Heaven, and always will be there. "God-Son" Elijah did ascend to Heaven, but he is coming back to Earth, just before the great and dreadful Day of the Lord. (the 2nd coming of Christ) Kind greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[KCDAD]

Dear KCDAD, perhaps John meant: no man has ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, and Jesus was the only one who STAYED in Heaven, and always will be there. "God-Son" Elijah did ascend to Heaven, but he is coming back to Earth, just before the great and dreadful Day of the Lord. (the 2nd coming of Christ) Kind greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

Maybe... but Jesus said it before he ascended...

 

[Emmy]

Dear KCDAD, I looked again at Malachi, and it says in Malachi 4-4, " Behold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord." That will be the 2nd coming of our Lord, the dreadful day, when Jesus takes home His Own, and leaves the rest. In John 3:13, and no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven. That is true, KCDAD, because Jesus has risen, and he is now in Heaven, with God-Father, where He pleads and intercedes our prayers. Elijah went to heaven, but he will be coming down, on that great and dreadful day, which we know AS the 2nd coming of the Lord. John the Baptist told us of the coming of the Lord, the Saviour of Mankind. Christians have accepted Him, but the Orthodox Jews, wait for Elijah and the promised coming of the Messiah, that great and dreadful day. I say this humbly and lovingly, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.